Should the Deaf Be Considered an Ethnic Group?

[TheOracle]

Yes, i think they become culturally American ( or whatever the adoptive family is) -- sharing common language, food, values, geogaphy, etc. But they can't change or choose their ethnicity. They are and always will be genetically linked to a group with a common heritage. Li is and always will be ethnically Chinese, something we're finding that she's already very attached to culturally, as well, gravitating towards the language, customs, dress, and proudly claiming her Chinese-ness.

Oops, sorry! I know you didn't shoot Li out of your vagina, but I still say you have parental rights.

 

[TheOracle]

From what I understand in your definition, you likely see it primarily consisting of the five distinct colors.

Sociologists disagree with the physical skin definition due it being outdated, there is an incorporation of variations subjective to the group, hence not being under one mold. In other words, being white skinned doesn't constitute all of the people who are white. I branched it out. Nor does being tan skinned constitute all Asians. Asian Indians do not fit under the "race" mold of classification with Africans. They are in itself, Asian Indians.

I tend to take a detailed approach into the definitions I use, I am not trying to focus on political correctness.

I do not believe that the census is screwy. Definitions of race are not in stasis for sociology and can get updated through time. What was defined as race 5 years ago might not be the same as what it was during the 80's. You can see the census of previous years to get this idea across.

So yeah, let's toss this race crap. I know plenty of pale skinned Hispanics.

Also...on questionnaires...I mark "other" out of annoyance. "White" in America indicates a dominant cultural and ethnic group. I'm not.

 

[TheOracle]

One who is deaf doesnt have to consider themselves as part of the Deaf ethnic group. No biggie. However, I still stand by my belief that Deaf people are an ethnic group based on cultural standards. If I am wrong, then I guess I am. It really doesnt matter..important that people are happy with who they are and who they identify themselves.

No one is denying that Deaf people are a culture. I think there's a misconception that some people think of "ethnicity" as a superior grouping to "culture". It may be more complex, but no. Not at all. The Deaf as a group is a completely valid subculture in the U.S. It is more defined than hippies in Boulder, political culture, academia, and other various groups.

 

[Reba]

Completely.
I see what your reference is towards about when you define a nation, as not all inhabitants of a nation are of the same "biological background". I admit I was focused on trying to define primarily the heritage descendants who defined the cultural aspects.

Sorry to be nitpicking but there are differences.

Even the cultural aspects of the various ethnic groups are different within the national boundaries. For example, white and black people live in South Africa but each group, especially in previous decades, had totally different heritages and cultural experiences.

People of the South American countries (except Brazil) share the Spanish language but there is a great variety of heritages and cultures within that continent. There is no South American race. South Americans include (but not limited to) Spaniards, Portuguese, Germans, Chinese, indigenous tribes, and various mixtures.

I admit, anthropology is not my specialty.

 

[flip]

That would be like me saying most deaf people have proved themselves incapable of making totally independent "informed decisions.". That's a ludacris statement based on ones feelings rather than fact.

I went so far as to respect those personal feelings in my prior post. I'm sorry you "don't get" what I'm saying, I thought I was pretty straightforward. Some individuals on this forum consistently tries to negate what people are saying based strictly upon the fact that they are hearing.

Nowhere have I chanted anything about "parental decisions" So I'm not really sure where you're getting your information from. Anyways buddy, I'm not paranoid and I don't need your pity.

I don't know your stance, but the AG Bell slogan "informed choices" is pretty controversial, in case you didn't know. Pulling that one along with an ad hominem attack like assuming that "some of you deaf people disagree all hearing people just because they are hearing" is not helping us much.

 

[flip]

Oops, sorry! I know you didn't shoot Li out of your vagina, but I still say you have parental rights.

I'm not saying she don't have parental rights, but that parental rights and doing the right thing is two different things. Some people have a hard time to gasp this simple fact.

 

[flip]

No clue, I haven't read how the tally process is done behind the last census.
Standard rule of thumb for poll/survey conduction from what I was taught varies depending on what the study is being done for.

Some PI's (Principal investigators) for a study may invalidate your entry if it doesn't pertain to the question.. you eliminate the invalidated, then with the valid entries you move them into the baseline and those are use for the actual studies. In published journals, you see this number as "n", that is the remaining after the initial, removing invalids.



Completely.
I see what your reference is towards about when you define a nation, as not all inhabitants of a nation are of the same "biological background". I admit I was focused on trying to define primarily the heritage descendants who defined the cultural aspects.

If you do a google search on deaf ethnic, versus gay ethnic, you will discover that the issue wether gay people are ethnic is almost non-existent, even if it probably is 500 million gay people in the world if we follow the 10 percent rule.

Deaf and ethnic generates more hits, and is discussed in books, even when it's only 5 million deaf people.

Why? It can be political, yes, but then, why do deaf people use the ethnic in politics, while gays don't?

Another problem with comparing deaf and gays, is that gay people don't have the same language and can communicate the same way internationally. The word "homosexual" is also a new word, invented in the 1700th century. Not all societies make a difference between gays and heterosexuals like we do in the western world. I could go on with the differences between deaf and gay, that makes the comparisation problematic. What they have in common, is perhaps the word "subculture".

You also say that deaf people lack the heritage? I happen to have a book called Deaf Heritage.

If I'm allowed to speculate, hoh and hearing people often fail to gasp the heritage and culture that is passed through sign language and it's communities, starting in the kindergarten. Learning ASL does not necessary make one spot the cultural heritage. That's why some are so quick on arguing that deaf people not is an ethnic group. Of course, it's probably not that simple, and we need to examine the arguments from both sides.

 

[flip]

I didn't say anything about ethnic deaf.

But you're right, you didn't say "all".

But you didn't address any other form other than biologically deaf.

Just saying ..

Yes, I understand you perfect, and I could have written it better. My point was that deafness is a biological issue, not something cosmetic that one choose to wear to be a part of a culture(though have heard rumors about hearing people who want to go deaf).

 

[Hohtopics]

Great. I belong to deaf people myself.

Then call it a culture if you wish. Otherwise, is the implication there that a deaf person should be considered as close to or even closer to another deaf person then their own family, blood and mother? I don't think so.

 

[Frisky Feline]

Keep going!! It isn't new. It has been years about ethnicity.

 

[flip]

Then call it a culture if you wish. Otherwise, is the implication there that a deaf person should be considered as close to or even closer to another deaf person then their own family, blood and mother? I don't think so.

Yes, it's so. Or, you can belong to both. Sometimes things are true, even if you can't imagine it.

 

[flip]

Keep going!! It isn't new. It has been years about ethnicity.

Thanks. I'm into endurance sports, love this.

 

[CSign]

I now can answer this question with super ease. But seeing we have hearing people here, I am electing not to.

This is the post that prompted me to make that statement. I see comments like this on a regular basis and they are not necessary.

I made the statement that people are able to make "informed decisions." Not "informed choices" and last I checked AG Bell doesn't own those two words. I have zero association with AG Bell, nor do I have any desire to assosciate with them. I also didn't "attack" anyone, I'd encourage you to consider your words before typing them.

 

[dogmom]

I am intrigued by the discussion and want to look back on it more closely when I have more time...

my initial personal thoughts....

I happen to be ethnically and culturally Ashkenazic Jewish - there may be more but that's what I know about in my background so far. Socially, I am perceived as white - this happens to give me more privilege than people who are not perceived as white.
I feel it is important for me to know this because of the history we have in the United States.

I think Deaf people can be both an ethnic and cultural group in sociological terms. In legal/ economic terms I think that people who are Deaf are a cultural group.

I think deaf people are a cultural group.

Race is a social construct started in the U.S. as a way to define "other".

 

[StSapphire]

This is the post that prompted me to make that statement. I see comments like this on a regular basis and they are not necessary.

I made the statement that people are able to make "informed decisions." Not "informed choices" and last I checked AG Bell doesn't own those two words. I have zero association with AG Bell, nor do I have any desire to assosciate with them. I also didn't "attack" anyone, I'd encourage you to consider your words before typing them.

You do realize PFH replied in his L1 shortly thereafter in this thread, right?

 

[GrendelQ]

Oops, sorry! I know you didn't shoot Li out of your vagina, but I still say you have parental rights.

I didnt think twice about that: I adopted vagina-shooting-generated rights from the woman who carefully, and likely with broken heart, placed Li in a basket, well wrapped up on a snowy february day and made sure she was discovered on the steps of the only administrative building in a rural little town high up in the mountains of Jiangxi.

 

[precious01]

i am deaf, but i have my right mind, i don't consider myself in some ethic group I am human like anyone else. the only difference between me and hearing world is my ears. i eat, drink and have fun like anyone else I love to shop for clothes like any other normal hearing person i am not into my hair so i get wigs to go simple and easy but anyway I go to church and praise the Lord like any normal person so to put me in any category as anyone i don't think so , However, stero type and ethic background will always be here regardless whether you are hearing or deaf, blind or regardless of race

 

[Dixie]

Deafness knows no skin color, civilization, or family. Deafness happens in all parts of the globe where the widely used language is vastly different from another region/country.

Yes, deafness has shared struggles, shared language, shared behaviors, and shared views on the hearing.

The difference is that in no matter what part of the globe a deaf person lives, they will generally follow the societal norms for their civilization.

For example; a deaf mother in India is likely to dress similarly to the other women, eat the same food, and likely have the same religious belief she was raised with as a child such as Hindu. She will be able to read and write Hindu scripts.

A deaf man in the United States is likely to dress similarly to the other men, eat similar food, and again likely have the same religious belief he was raised with as a child such as Christianity. He will be able to read and write English.

Culturally these two couldn't be more different but they share the same struggles in dealing with the hearing and likely will share a common sign language (if ASL is taught in India to the deaf.) They will also have the same feelings about hearing people who are inconsiderate of the deaf as well as hearing people who are genuinely trying to help the deaf. They will both have shared behaviors when interacting with their local deaf community such as tapping the floor to get someone's attention and using visual cues in their surroundings to help them be more aware.

As much as I would like for the Deaf worldwide to receive recognition as not just as a disabled group of people but rather as a culture or society all in it's own right, I don't think we should receive 'ethnic' status as deafness encompasses ALL ethnic groups worldwide. Just my two cents on the subject.

 

[flip]

This is the post that prompted me to make that statement. I see comments like this on a regular basis and they are not necessary.

I made the statement that people are able to make "informed decisions." Not "informed choices" and last I checked AG Bell doesn't own those two words. I have zero association with AG Bell, nor do I have any desire to assosciate with them. I also didn't "attack" anyone, I'd encourage you to consider your words before typing them.

PFH reasoned his comment in his L1 post.

The "informed choices/decisions" slogan paired with "parental rights/choices/decisions" in deaf education, orgins from the oral camp. I don't expect you to understand the problems caused by oralists today and in the past, but you perhaps need to understand that the slogan is created in a polarized environment and loaded with politics, giving you a specific kind of feedback. Asking people to shut up by telling them to "consider your words before typing them", don't work.

An advice: don't take everything too personal. That's one of the most common mistakes I see parents on this board do.

 

[flip]

Deafness knows no skin color, civilization, or family. Deafness happens in all parts of the globe where the widely used language is vastly different from another region/country.

Yes, deafness has shared struggles, shared language, shared behaviors, and shared views on the hearing.

The difference is that in no matter what part of the globe a deaf person lives, they will generally follow the societal norms for their civilization.

For example; a deaf mother in India is likely to dress similarly to the other women, eat the same food, and likely have the same religious belief she was raised with as a child such as Hindu. She will be able to read and write Hindu scripts.

A deaf man in the United States is likely to dress similarly to the other men, eat similar food, and again likely have the same religious belief he was raised with as a child such as Christianity. He will be able to read and write English.

Culturally these two couldn't be more different but they share the same struggles in dealing with the hearing and likely will share a common sign language (if ASL is taught in India to the deaf.) They will also have the same feelings about hearing people who are inconsiderate of the deaf as well as hearing people who are genuinely trying to help the deaf. They will both have shared behaviors when interacting with their local deaf community such as tapping the floor to get someone's attention and using visual cues in their surroundings to help them be more aware.

As much as I would like for the Deaf worldwide to receive recognition as not just as a disabled group of people but rather as a culture or society all in it's own right, I don't think we should receive 'ethnic' status as deafness encompasses ALL ethnic groups worldwide. Just my two cents on the subject.

The thing with "ethnic", is that many of the criterias fit deaf people, while it's use today(and probably in the future, too) don't fit deaf people exactly.

So can understand you, and the other posters that don't feel deaf people are an ethnic group.

To me, acknowledging the possibility of deaf people as an ethnic group, is a way of increasing the understanding of deaf people.