SEE is a language... It's English...

[CSign]

no no no. don't ask me. I'm going to ask you. Do YOU view that as a bad thing? You said it like it's a negative thing. He can talk "great" as you said. He is deaf. hence.... an Oral Deafie.

Is that a bad thing?

Your post doesn't even make sense.

Do I view what as a bad thing?

Speech abilities? No.

The inability to produce speech, or the desire not to a bad thing? No.

 

[CSign]

Here is a good link re SEE:

http://doug.stringham.net/uvuasl/3310/ch7_mceorigins.pdf

 

[Jiro]

Your post doesn't even make sense.

Do I view what as a bad thing?

Speech abilities? No.

The inability to produce speech, or the desire not to a bad thing? No.

ok then you have no problem with "Oral Deaf" label because:

1. SEE is half-visual, half-auditorial
2. your son can hear
3. your son can talk great

 

[Jiro]

Here is a good link re SEE:

http://doug.stringham.net/uvuasl/3310/ch7_mceorigins.pdf

why should I read it? Are you lecturing to us deaf people on it?

 

[BecLak]

I wonder if parents do secretly hope for good speech skills because they, as hearing people, know how some hearing people view deaf people in general. They have seen how some (if not most!) hearing people feel sorry for them, especially if they don't speak at all. Even after the parents have learned about the benefits of ASL, I wonder if they think to themselves, "Well, that's great and all, but the idea of my child having to deal with the real world without good speech skills is just depressing because I know how cruel hearing people can be." ASL-users making statements about themselves and how they went far in life and how they learned English and so on falls on deaf ears (har har) because the parents believe that it's easy for an ASL-user to not realize how hearing people really perceive them nor treat them due to the communication barrier, especially if the ASL-user get most of their REAL interactions with only the Deaf community. In other words, "They just don't know better."

I often try to see the world through another person's eyes to see if it explains their actions.

A smart hearing person obviously would never admit to wanting good speech skills because they know it technically has nothing to do with being successful. Sort of like a parent wishing that he had a son because a man "can be" more successful in life than a woman.

Here is a real to life answer to your post: My hearing children in response to my first going voice off for merely a day - 'but we need to hear your voice Mum'. Hearing people need to hear a person's voice, it is an integral part of their core existance. Don't just take my word for it there are several examples in 'Children of a Lesser God' and even the most recent 'Switched at Birth' (btw, the last episode where the producers apparently 'voiced over' Sean Berdy's attempt to 'speak' disgusts me)

 

[Jiro]

I wonder if parents do secretly hope for good speech skills because they, as hearing people, know how some hearing people view deaf people in general. They have seen how some (if not most!) hearing people feel sorry for them, especially if they don't speak at all. Even after the parents have learned about the benefits of ASL, I wonder if they think to themselves, "Well, that's great and all, but the idea of my child having to deal with the real world without good speech skills is just depressing because I know how cruel hearing people can be." ASL-users making statements about themselves and how they went far in life and how they learned English and so on falls on deaf ears (har har) because the parents believe that it's easy for an ASL-user to not realize how hearing people really perceive them nor treat them due to the communication barrier, especially if the ASL-user get most of their REAL interactions with only the Deaf community. In other words, "They just don't know better."

I often try to see the world through another person's eyes to see if it explains their actions.

A smart hearing person obviously would never admit to wanting good speech skills because they know it technically has nothing to do with being successful. Sort of like a parent wishing that he had a son because a man "can be" more successful in life than a woman.

it is perfectly fine for deaf people if they want to choose to hear and/or talk but that isn't the main issue in here. The whole point is the sign language side. It's important that a deaf person be given a right tool and SEE ain't it.

 

[faire_jour]

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dd, i won't lie, i'm glad my child developed intelligible spoken language. Even at age 5 she was starting to get left out at family gatherings and on the playground. It sucked and i always advocated for her and she was developing very good age-appropriate ways to deal with the situations, but yeah, as a parent, it killed me to see kids talk behind her back because they knew she couldn't hear them. Or see kids yell at her because she would sign to them and they didn't understand her. That is why we were so heavily involved with the Deaf community. There she FIT! There was no struggle, no misunderstandings. She was home.

 

[BecLak]

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dd, i won't lie, i'm glad my child developed intelligible spoken language. Even at age 5 she was starting to get left out at family gatherings and on the playground. It sucked and i always advocated for her and she was developing very good age-appropriate ways to deal with the situations, but yeah, as a parent, it killed me to see kids talk behind her back because they knew she couldn't hear them. Or see kids yell at her because she would sign to them and they didn't understand her. That is why we were so heavily involved with the Deaf community. There she FIT! There was no struggle, no misunderstandings. She was home.

FJ, you are contradicting youself there.

 

[Frisky Feline]

it got over 1000 posts of this thread. all i see is the same result.

 

[faire_jour]

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dd, i won't lie, i'm glad my child developed intelligible spoken language. Even at age 5 she was starting to get left out at family gatherings and on the playground. It sucked and i always advocated for her and she was developing very good age-appropriate ways to deal with the situations, but yeah, as a parent, it killed me to see kids talk behind her back because they knew she couldn't hear them. Or see kids yell at her because she would sign to them and they didn't understand her. That is why we were so heavily involved with the Deaf community. There she FIT! There was no struggle, no misunderstandings. She was home.

FJ, you are contradicting youself there.

how so?

 

[CSign]

why should I read it? Are you lecturing to us deaf people on it?

Don't read it if you don't want to. Doesn't bother me any.

I'm providing a link to a good overall view of SEE, written by Gerilee Gustason. She was one of the creators of SEE, and it provides accurate information about the subject.

I'm providing it for those who want a clear and accurate overview of SEE; rather than a biased, incorrect, tainted description.

 

[CSign]

ok then you have no problem with "Oral Deaf" label because:

1. SEE is half-visual, half-auditorial
2. your son can hear
3. your son can talk great

I would greatly appreciate it if you would stop intentionally degrading my son. Thank you.

Edit to add: I absolutely have a problem with labeling my son "Oral Deaf" because the philosophy contradicts our core beliefs. I would never force my child to rely on his weakest sense. I find the continued comments labeling him "Oral deaf" offensive. You have clearly been using the terminology and comments as an insult to him.

What's the phrase?

Shame on you.

 

[BecLak]

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dd, i won't lie, i'm glad my child developed intelligible spoken language. Even at age 5 she was starting to get left out at family gatherings and on the playground. It sucked and i always advocated for her and she was developing very good age-appropriate ways to deal with the situations, but yeah, as a parent, it killed me to see kids talk behind her back because they knew she couldn't hear them. Or see kids yell at her because she would sign to them and they didn't understand her. That is why we were so heavily involved with the Deaf community. There she FIT! There was no struggle, no misunderstandings. She was home.

FJ, you are contradicting youself there.

how so?

Your first and last sentences contradict each other.

 

[BecLak]

Wirelessly posted

ok then you have no problem with "Oral Deaf" label because:

1. SEE is half-visual, half-auditorial
2. your son can hear
3. your son can talk great

I would greatly appreciate it if you would stop intentionally degrading my son. Thank you.

Edit to add: I absolutely have a problem with labeling my son "Oral Deaf" because the philosophy contradicts our core beliefs. I would never force my child to rely on his weakest sense. I find the continued comments labeling him "Oral deaf" offensive. You have clearly been using the terminology and comments as an insult to him.

What's the phrase?

Shame on you.

No, Jiro is stating that you are in fact degrading your son being Deaf because you refuse to recognise that with using SEE (an MCE of English) you are in fact raising him as Oral deaf.

 

[Cheetah]

Ok, I am going to stop following this thread.... it's going nowhere.

 

[Jiro]

Don't read it if you don't want to. Doesn't bother me any.

I'm providing a link to a good overall view of SEE, written by Gerilee Gustason. She was one of the creators of SEE, and it provides accurate information about the subject.

I'm providing it for those who want a clear and accurate overview of SEE; rather than a biased, incorrect, tainted description.

1. overwhelming numbers of people here is telling you that SEE sux
2. nobody cares about what you say about SEE
3. why do you care about lecturing to us about SEE? Are you a troll?

 

[Jiro]

I would greatly appreciate it if you would stop intentionally degrading my son. Thank you.

No thank you. Don't like it? Don't read it. It doesn't bother me. and I am not degrading your son because I am not talking to him directly. You are speaking for him so you are not doing him a favor. Shame on you.

Edit to add: I absolutely have a problem with labeling my son "Oral Deaf" because the philosophy contradicts our core beliefs. I would never force my child to rely on his weakest sense. I find the continued comments labeling him "Oral deaf" offensive. You have clearly been using the terminology and comments as an insult to him.

What's the phrase?

Shame on you.

oh? and you have no problem beating us like a dead horse that SEE is a language? and you didn't care that you offended us?

you hypocrite witch.

 

[AlleyCat]

oh? and you have no problem beating us like a dead horse that SEE is a language? and you didn't care that you offended us?

you hypocrite witch

Careful. You'll get recommended to eat green brownies.

 

[faire_jour]

Wirelessly posted

FJ, you are contradicting youself there.

how so?[/QUOTE]

Your first and last sentences contradict each other.[/QUOTE]

not at all. A child can have intelligible spoken language and still love and use ASL and be a part of the Deaf community. Why wouldn't they?

 

[Jiro]

Wirelessly posted

dd, i won't lie, i'm glad my child developed intelligible spoken language. Even at age 5 she was starting to get left out at family gatherings and on the playground. It sucked and i always advocated for her and she was developing very good age-appropriate ways to deal with the situations, but yeah, as a parent, it killed me to see kids talk behind her back because they knew she couldn't hear them. Or see kids yell at her because she would sign to them and they didn't understand her. That is why we were so heavily involved with the Deaf community. There she FIT! There was no struggle, no misunderstandings. She was home.

for your honesty. You finally came out of closet. I perfectly understand your situation and I have no problem with it.

I wish other parents would do same instead of dancing around behind the lies they don't believe in.