Project Blue Blook

[CrazyPaul]

If there weren't any actual aliens present on earth then there are no secrets to be kept by anyone.

If there really were aliens, do you think the military could keep them secret? Would the aliens obey the military? Nope.

I apologize for not clarifying. I mean if a dead alien was found from an UFO crash, would the military share it with us? No, they won't.

The military can't catch a live alien that is too advanced than us. I know that UFOs can easily escape from Air Force like a million mile away.

 

[Reba]

I apologize for not clarifying. I mean if a dead alien was found from an UFO crash, would the military share it with us? No, they won't.

That's assuming the military have found a dead alien. If there are no dead aliens, there's nothing to share.

The military can't catch a live alien that is too advanced than us. I know that UFOs can easily escape from Air Force like a million mile away.

If they're so advanced, how would there be any dead aliens to find?

 

[Steinhauer]

To us chariots of fire might seem like UFO's because that's our current cultural reference. There's nothing in the Bible that says they were piloted by aliens from another planet.

I don't see any arrogance about accepting the fact that we're the only living breathing creatures in the universe. I see it as a dissatisfaction with our current lives and situations that creates a desire for something else "out there" that transcends our earthly condition.

Are you claiming it is a scientific fact that out of the infinite number of stars in the entire Universe, there are no living breathing creatures in the entire Universe except here on earth?


Please enlighten me. Because I know for a "fact" that it isn't a fact. It is your opinion. There is nothing at all even remotely true about being "dissatisfied" with our current lives that creates a desire for something else to be out there. It has everything to do with observation.

Now, I do know, for a fact, that NASA discovered what they believed to be a fossilized micro organism inside of a meteorite that originated from Mars. This discovery was in the 90's. Since then, they have spent billions trying to land remote controlled rovers on the surface of Mars, with great success. They are not even hiding the fact that the entire purpose of this was to find solid evidence of life. They have since found water on Mars, and just recently, organic chemistry, including methane gas. Now our planet is certainly filled with life. And the evidence NASA is finding on Mars indicates there was once life on that planet. But you are saying out of the infinite number of planets in the universe, earth is the only one that has life? please cite your sources.

http://www.nasa.gov/content/finding-life-beyond-earth-is-within-reach/#.VMILDi7xeYw

http://www.nasa.gov/press/2014/dece...cient-organic-chemistry-on-mars/#.VMIMvy7xeYw

NASA's Mars Curiosity rover has measured a tenfold spike in methane, an organic chemical, in the atmosphere around it and detected other organic molecules in a rock-powder sample collected by the robotic laboratory’s drill.

 

[CrazyPaul]

That's assuming the military have found a dead alien. If there are no dead aliens, there's nothing to share.


If they're so advanced, how would there be any dead aliens to find?

Assuming that there was a dead alien, do you think the military would share it with us?

If they are so advanced, that doesn't mean they are perfect.

 

[Reba]

Assuming that there was a dead alien, do you think the military would share it with us?

If they are so advanced, that doesn't mean they are perfect.

If the military were the ones to acquire a body that wasn't in public view they probably want to keep it classified.

But that's assuming there was a dead alien, which I do not.

 

[Reba]

Are you claiming it is a scientific fact that out of the infinite number of stars in the entire Universe, there are no living breathing creatures in the entire Universe except here on earth?

Obviously I can't prove a negative.

Please enlighten me. Because I know for a "fact" that it isn't a fact.

Which you can't prove either.

It is your opinion. There is nothing at all even remotely true about being "dissatisfied" with our current lives that creates a desire for something else to be out there. It has everything to do with observation.

In your opinion.

Observation is not proof. Interpretations of observations can be faulty. That's why eyewitness accounts of crimes and accidents are so unreliable.

Now, I do know, for a fact, that NASA discovered what they believed to be a fossilized micro organism inside of a meteorite that originated from Mars. This discovery was in the 90's.

"What they believed" is not the same as a fact.

Since then, they have spent billions trying to land remote controlled rovers on the surface of Mars, with great success. They are not even hiding the fact that the entire purpose of this was to find solid evidence of life.

Our tax dollars at work. Oh, well.

They have since found water on Mars, and just recently, organic chemistry, including methane gas. Now our planet is certainly filled with life. And the evidence NASA is finding on Mars indicates there was once life on that planet. But you are saying out of the infinite number of planets in the universe, earth is the only one that has life? please cite your sources.

Again, I can't prove a negative.

You can believe in your sources and conclusions, and I'll believe in mine.

 

[Steinhauer]

Essentially, what you have done is tried to pass off "as fact' what was really just a belief.

Thanks for your clarification.

Not trying to pick nits, but when someone is making a claim that people are just "dissatisfied with their lives" for actually thinking that we are not alone in the universe, instead of what it actually is, scientific observation, I do feel the need to "correct" that kind of thinking.

I don't think people buy telescopes because they are dissatisfied with their lives. Maybe they just want to observe .. in wonder ... at the infinite universe instead?

 

[Reba]

Essentially, what you have done is tried to pass off "as fact' what was really just a belief.

As is everyone in this thread.

Thanks for your clarification.

You're welcome.

Not trying to pick nits,

But you will.

but when someone is making a claim that people are just "dissatisfied with their lives" for actually thinking that we are not alone in the universe, instead of what it actually is, scientific observation, I do feel the need to "correct" that kind of thinking.

Just as I corrected the assertion that it was arrogant to believe that we are the only living beings in the universe (although we are not "alone").

I don't think people buy telescopes because they are dissatisfied with their lives. Maybe they just want to observe .. in wonder ... at the infinite universe instead?

I never said anything about buying telescopes. I had a telescope and I bought a rather nice one for my grandson. I encourage him to observe the sky, and text him every time there's an eclipse or meteor shower or some other phenomena to observe. Ever since I was a child and my dad worked with NASA on their space program, I've been interested in space exploration. There's nothing wrong with observing the universe--I encourage it. Observing and studying the universe doesn't automatically equate with believing in alien beings, however. There are people who observe the universe without believing in alien life forms, and there are people who believe in alien life forms without observing the universe.

 

[CrazyPaul]

I never said anything about buying telescopes. I had a telescope and I bought a rather nice one for my grandson. I encourage him to observe the sky, and text him every time there's an eclipse or meteor shower or some other phenomena to observe. Ever since I was a child and my dad worked with NASA on their space program, I've been interested in space exploration. There's nothing wrong with observing the universe--I encourage it. Observing and studying the universe doesn't automatically equate with believing in alien beings, however. There are people who observe the universe without believing in alien life forms, and there are people who believe in alien life forms without observing the universe.

And there are people who observe the universe and believe in alien life forms.

I remember reading that NASA reported that it saw an UFO but it keeps saying no after questions asked by reporters. Cover-up? That's possible, no?

 

[Steinhauer]

And there are people who observe the universe and believe in alien life forms.

I remember reading that NASA reported that it saw an UFO but it keeps saying no after questions asked by reporters. Cover-up? That's possible, no?

There is a former big wig from NASA named Clark C. Mcclelland. NASA has been trying to shut him up for a long time. He has made some very "interesting" claims. He claims that YES, since NASA is a DoD contractor, working for the Pentagon, that YES there is a cover up. Take that for what you will. His stories do make for interesting reading.

https://clarkcmcclelland.wordpress.com/

In 1958 Clark C. McClelland was assigned to the national space program at Cape Canaveral, Florida, and helped launch or viewed 673 rockets and spacecraft. In addition to being an Aerospace Engineer and Technical Assistant to the Apollo Program Manager during the Apollo moon landings, McClelland and other SpaceCraft Operators did extensive technical checkout of simulated flights and mission objectives of the various shuttles to assure orbital success and the personal safety of the astronauts. Clark McClelland knew many of the astronauts who perished during the Challenger disaster and certainly did all he could to keep each shuttle from such a repeat accident.

He has held important positions involving such manned projects as Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo lunar landings, Skylab, the Space Shuttle and the Space Station. He was assigned to the cockpit of the Space Shuttle missions as a SpaceCraft Operator (Ground Test Astronaut).

McClelland’s name is on three commemorative monuments of the Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo missions – His name will also be on the Space Shuttle, International Space Station and the Deep Space Missions monuments in the future.

Don't you think they will try and portray him as a nutbag now?

 

[Steinhauer]

As is everyone in this thread.


You're welcome.


But you will. absolutely !


Just as I corrected the assertion that it was arrogant to believe that we are the only living beings in the universe (although we are not "alone").


I never said anything about buying telescopes. I had a telescope and I bought a rather nice one for my grandson. I encourage him to observe the sky, and text him every time there's an eclipse or meteor shower or some other phenomena to observe. Ever since I was a child and my dad worked with NASA on their space program, I've been interested in space exploration. There's nothing wrong with observing the universe--I encourage it. Observing and studying the universe doesn't automatically equate with believing in alien beings, however. There are people who observe the universe without believing in alien life forms, and there are people who believe in alien life forms without observing the universe.

My contention is that you have passed judgement on those whom observe the universe and believe that there is alien life - to be people "unsatisfied with their own lives whom are desperately seeking for something else out there".

I don't 'believe' that to be the case. I do think there are individuals that fit your description that would do that with anything, but it certainly is not true if the intent is scientific observation.

Given the fact that the universe is infinite, and that life exists in many forms here on earth, it is not an act of desperation to come to the logical conclusion that life must exist elsewhere. Especially since in just the past 5 years, scientific discovery (through observation) made it possible to prove that nearly every single star we see has a system of planets. Furthermore, what we have seen isn't even a tiny fraction of what is out there. Also, with the recent discovery that there is organic chemistry on Mars, it is not an act of desperation to conclude that if organic chemistry on Mars exists and that Mars is in the same solar system as Earth is, then life might be rather common throughout the Universe.

The only way to discover this is through space exploration. I mentioned telescopes because that seems to be the tool used to observe "what's out there" It is also the tool that the Harvard Astrophysics Department plans on using to see if they can observe intelligent life on earth-like planets that have recently been discovered. The theory behind that is, if intelligent life exists, they must use artificial lights at night .. which can be observed at a distance. Only a powerful telescope specifically designed to detect artificial light from great distances would be needed - and it is nearing completion.

and this is why we sent the rovers to mars:

http://www.space.com/8229-oldest-mars-meteorite-younger-thought.html

Scientists knew Mars once had water, and they knew Mars at one time had magnetic poles, and they knew it once had life due to the fossilized microorganism embedded in the meteorite. All this they found out through observation of a .... rock.

 

[Reba]

There is a former big wig from NASA named Clark C. Mcclelland. NASA has been trying to shut him up for a long time. He has made some very "interesting" claims. He claims that YES, since NASA is a DoD contractor, working for the Pentagon, that YES there is a cover up. Take that for what you will. His stories do make for interesting reading.

What are his "interesting" claims?

 

[Reba]

My contention is that you have passed judgement on those whom observe the universe and believe that there is alien life - to be people "unsatisfied with their own lives whom are desperately seeking for something else out there".

I won't say anything more about why some people believe in alien space beings and why some people do not. People are diverse and have diverse reasons for why they believe things.

 

[Steinhauer]

What are his "interesting" claims?

I think he went off the deep end. But ... he is not the only NASA employee to mention Wehrner Von Braun was one of the scientists that helped analyze the crashed UFO in Roswell. Several of Von Braun's closest friends attested to this after his death.

I think at one time, you would have been fired if you mentioned anything regarding UFO's. Perhaps people even thought you were insane .. at one time. Or a nut. If it effected my employment, I would probably keep all that to myself too.

I do think it is interesting that several Apollo Astronauts are making the claims they are making now that they are no longer under threat of employment termination.

 

[Reba]

I think he went off the deep end. But ... he is not the only NASA employee to mention Wehrner Von Braun was one of the scientists that helped analyze the crashed UFO in Roswell. Several of Von Braun's closest friends attested to this after his death.

You picked McClelland. Is he not a credible example? If not, do you have a better one?

I think at one time, you would have been fired if you mentioned anything regarding UFO's. Perhaps people even thought you were insane .. at one time. Or a nut. If it effected my employment, I would probably keep all that to myself too.

I know people who made claims about UFO's and even abductions, and they weren't fired from their jobs. In fact, some of them profited from their claims.

Did McClelland get fired? I notice that he charges fees for his UFO information.

I do think it is interesting that several Apollo Astronauts are making the claims they are making now that they are no longer under threat of employment termination.

Did they give a reason for not saying anything sooner? Which astronauts, and what were their claims?

 

[Bebonang]

Years ago when I was a teenager probably becoming an adult at 20 soon at the time.

My mother thought and probably believed that we may have come from another planet like Mars and put our ancestors who did not have any tools probably at birth on Mother Earth. She may be a Catholic but the bible seemed far fetched about Adam and Eve theory how that they became human beings out of dust and ribs. That is why it is impossible coming from the Bible that could occurred from where our bodies came from. That is why it remained a mystery and we will never know. **sigh**

So thinking that we might have come from out there in Space.

 

[Steinhauer]

You picked McClelland. Is he not a credible example? If not, do you have a better one?


I know people who made claims about UFO's and even abductions, and they weren't fired from their jobs. In fact, some of them profited from their claims.

Did McClelland get fired? I notice that he charges fees for his UFO information.


Did they give a reason for not saying anything sooner? Which astronauts, and what were their claims?

I also couldn't help but notice that a lot of Pastors also get paid for making their claims. In fact, have you seen some of the mansions they live in? http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/megachurch-pastor-defends-megamansion-as-gift-from-god/

But you are right, people should not make money off of what they believe. In fact, every single NASA researcher shouldn't charge anything for their research. They should all work for free. ((sarcasm))

As for Wehrner Von Braun's claims ... Braun was a firm believer in Intelligent Design and Creation. He was a devout Lutheran all of his life. He even claimed that his belief in Intelligent Design enabled him to understand science. Wehrner Von Braun was a NAZI during WWII and was a V2 rocket scientist. After the war, he was "recruited" by the U.S. in a project called "Operation Paperclip". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip

At the time, Von Braun was the top researcher in the pioneering days of space travel. It was his research and under his direction that enabled man to land on the moon.

Clark C. McClelland was a close friend of Wehrner Von Braun. They worked alongside each other on the Apollo and the Space Shuttle missions ( http://www.space.com/12085-nasa-space-shuttle-history-born.html ).

In McClelland's book, that he is, of course, receiving money for (and I had to pay for my Bible btw), he claims he had a conversation with Wehrner Von Braun about the Roswell Incident. Wehrner Von Braun told him he was called to the crash site, and observed that it was an alien craft and that yes, there were dead alien bodies.

The initial reports of the Roswell Incident that were in the newspapers at the time indicated the same exact thing. It wasn't until the military stepped in that is was "officially" declared to be a hoax and that it was not an alien craft, but a weather balloon. The "official" story of the Roswell incident claims that the bodies witnesses saw were actually crash test dummies.

Now why they would put crash test dummies on a weather balloon is anyone's guess. But . . . a mortician is never called to make hermetically sealed coffins as to not damage tissue for crash test dummies either. The mortician's name was Glenn Davis. The rancher that owned the property where the ufo crashed saw the bodies as well. So ... people were coming forward back then too.

Now, I know you are former military. You must be familiar with the handling of classified information then? What happens to someone who releases classified information? Do they end up like Bradley Manning?

The whole "weather balloon" story was just a cover, as Brig. General Thomas DuBose, commanding officer of the 8th Air Force at Carswell AFB attested to. He was the highest ranking Officer during the Roswell Incident. Even he has come forward and said they were aliens and it was a UFO:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4yVEEff8Gw


http://kevinrandle.blogspot.com/2007/05/dubose-affidavit.html

The material shown in the photographs taken in Gen. Ramey’s office was a weather balloon (Ramey crouched, with DuBose seated and the wather balloon). The weather balloon explanation for the material was a cover story to divert the attention of the press.

 

[Reba]

I also couldn't help but notice that a lot of Pastors also get paid for making their claims. In fact, have you seen some of the mansions they live in? http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/10/megachurch-pastor-defends-megamansion-as-gift-from-god/

But you are right, people should not make money off of what they believe. In fact, every single NASA researcher shouldn't charge anything for their research. They should all work for free. ((sarcasm))

I never said "people should not make money off of what they believe" so I'm neither right nor wrong. If people are willing to pay UFO believers for their stories or pictures that's their prerogative. I only brought it up because you stated that their livelihoods could be in jeopardy for their beliefs. I mentioned McClelland's fees specifically because that was the reason I couldn't access his stories--I'm not willing to pay for them.

Your statement about pastors is totally NOT relevant to this topic. I can't speak for all pastors, and I don't personally know any megachurch wealthy pastors. None of the pastors I know live extravagantly, and they get paid for their services, not for their beliefs or claims. Our pastor's beliefs are posted on our church website for all to freely read, our church services are streamed live for free, no one is charged for attending a church service, and our pastor provides free downloads of his sermons.

As for Wehrner Von Braun's claims ... Braun was a firm believer in Intelligent Design and Creation. He was a devout Lutheran all of his life. He even claimed that his belief in Intelligent Design enabled him to understand science. Wehrner Von Braun was a NAZI during WWII and was a V2 rocket scientist. After the war, he was "recruited" by the U.S. in a project called "Operation Paperclip". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip

At the time, Von Braun was the top researcher in the pioneering days of space travel. It was his research and under his direction that enabled man to land on the moon.

I know who he was; I didn't ask about him but that's OK. Did he lose his job for his beliefs?

Clark C. McClelland was a close friend of Wehrner Von Braun. They worked alongside each other on the Apollo and the Space Shuttle missions ( http://www.space.com/12085-nasa-space-shuttle-history-born.html ).

In McClelland's book, that he is, of course, receiving money for (and I had to pay for my Bible btw),

Like I said, if he wants to charge for his stories, that's fine. I'm not going to pay for them, and it does limit the spread of his testimony by charging for it. If you must compare it to the Bible, then you also must know that when people want to get the Gospel out, they will provide free Bibles and literature. Also, the Bible is online at web sites (free) and can be accessed with apps (free). If someone has an important message, they will do whatever they can to get it disseminated.

he claims he had a conversation with Wehrner Von Braun about the Roswell Incident. Wehrner Von Braun told him he was called to the crash site, and observed that it was an alien craft and that yes, there were dead alien bodies.

The initial reports of the Roswell Incident that were in the newspapers at the time indicated the same exact thing. It wasn't until the military stepped in that is was "officially" declared to be a hoax and that it was not an alien craft, but a weather balloon. The "official" story of the Roswell incident claims that the bodies witnesses saw were actually crash test dummies.

Now why they would put crash test dummies on a weather balloon is anyone's guess.

There is a third possibility. The crash was the result of classified testing of developing military technology, and required a cover story to protect it.

But . . . a mortician is never called to make hermetically sealed coffins as to not damage tissue for crash test dummies either. The mortician's name was Glenn Davis. The rancher that owned the property where the ufo crashed saw the bodies as well. So ... people were coming forward back then too.

Now, I know you are former military. You must be familiar with the handling of classified information then? What happens to someone who releases classified information? Do they end up like Bradley Manning?

To what classified information are you referring? The classified research and development of military weapons systems or aircraft? Yes, that would be a serious offense.

Also, if any material (including bodies) lands/crashes in the public domain, other than taking custody of it, the military can't charge residents with any classified material offenses. They can ask that people keep it secret as a patriotic duty but they can't force civilians out in the community to observe classified restrictions.

The whole "weather balloon" story was just a cover, as Brig. General Thomas DuBose, commanding officer of the 8th Air Force at Carswell AFB attested to. He was the highest ranking Officer during the Roswell Incident. Even he has come forward and said they were aliens and it was a UFO:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4yVEEff8Gw


http://kevinrandle.blogspot.com/2007/05/dubose-affidavit.html

So, what happened to him?

 

[Reba]

An interesting excerpt that connects McClelland and Dubose:

"McClelland has recently written (stargatechronicles.com) having interviewed Dubose in 1990 in Dubose's Florida home. In this off-the-record interview (Dubose wouldn't allow McClelland to record it), reconstructed from notes and memory, McClelland claims Dubose went far further in his story, admitting that Roswell was indeed a crashed alien spacecraft recovery, including 4-5 small dead bodies and one live one. (The story of a surviving alien pops up in several other accounts as well. See testimony in support of Roswell mortician Glenn Dennis' story.)

McClelland depicts Dubose's language as profane (as it was in some other interviews), particularly so when he mentioned his disgust with the cover-up (even telling McClelland he might put out a public statement telling the real story--something he never did) and how he, as a senior officer, was not allowed to actually see the crash material or bodies because of all the security. It particularly riled him that captured Nazi scientists, people he hated and had fought against, were allowed to see the crash site but he was completely frozen out. This jibes with other interviews where Dubose said he was never allowed to see the real debris, with his boss, Gen. Roger Ramey, strictly enforcing orders from above to keep Dubose away from it."

http://roswellproof.homestead.com/dubose.html

He never saw the real debris.

 

[CrazyPaul]

An interesting excerpt that connects McClelland and Dubose:

"McClelland has recently written (stargatechronicles.com) having interviewed Dubose in 1990 in Dubose's Florida home. In this off-the-record interview (Dubose wouldn't allow McClelland to record it), reconstructed from notes and memory, McClelland claims Dubose went far further in his story, admitting that Roswell was indeed a crashed alien spacecraft recovery, including 4-5 small dead bodies and one live one. (The story of a surviving alien pops up in several other accounts as well. See testimony in support of Roswell mortician Glenn Dennis' story.)

McClelland depicts Dubose's language as profane (as it was in some other interviews), particularly so when he mentioned his disgust with the cover-up (even telling McClelland he might put out a public statement telling the real story--something he never did) and how he, as a senior officer, was not allowed to actually see the crash material or bodies because of all the security. It particularly riled him that captured Nazi scientists, people he hated and had fought against, were allowed to see the crash site but he was completely frozen out. This jibes with other interviews where Dubose said he was never allowed to see the real debris, with his boss, Gen. Roger Ramey, strictly enforcing orders from above to keep Dubose away from it."

http://roswellproof.homestead.com/dubose.html

He never saw the real debris.

I believe that it's all a cover-up. You see, if it was a weather balloon, other witnesses including some Army officers who saw the UFO's debris said it didn't look like the weather balloon at all (the one Army wanted the press to see).