Original Sin

[Liebling:-)))]

Sinner is not what you commit. Sinner is who you are and who we born from? It is a hand down. When baby become like 1 year old or 2 year old, how that child lie? Where that come from? Why that child favorite word to parent by saying NO with anger? where that come from?

Depend on parental's form of discipline to lead children lie and seek to bad path.

 

[shel90]

For the sake of the argument, let's say babies do commit sins by lying or being deceptive, how do babies ask for forgiveness if they have no concept of it yet?

BTW..very interesting thread.

 

[Blade Runner]

Note: Please refrain from attacks. Only post if you have certain knowledge. Do not make speculation. I request posters to please type clearly as possible; I do not appreciate condensed posts with no organization. I wish Atheists and Jordan (RITCount, SyrOrange, etc.) to not post in this thread. Thank you.

I'm curious, why do you need to post that header twice in two threads?

(Sorry mods, but I had to ask why)

What's the matter, Jeff, can't accept my opinions?

 

[DreamSlayer]

But babies who have yet to know what a constitutes as a sin is not a sinner.

First, I'm going to disagree with this statement. The question this brings up is, 'Can one be a sinner without knowing it?'
If I drive to America (I'm canadian), and am speeding, but don't know I'm speeding, will I get a ticket?
Blood offering was offered for those who sinned 'unintentionally'-Ezekiel 45:20
Romans 5 -12Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned— 13 for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Secondly,
I don't believe baptism saves anyone, I believe only the belief in Jesus Christ and his death, and resurection for my sins, is the source of Salvation. So I don't believe that baptising a baby would ensure that a baby would go to heaven.

Third, Basic instinct, natural instinct, sin instinct any thing that seperates us from God is Sin. If a baby exhibits these things, then it is Sin, and they are seperated from God. If a baby is totally unaware of anything but himself, and is selfish and ignorant, manipulating, lying, whatever, then those could be examples of Sin nature?

If a baby dies does it go to heaven?
If a 4 year old dies and does not believe in Jesus does the 4 year old go to heaven?
If a 10 year old dies and does not believe in Jesus does the 10 year old go to Heaven?

But the baby didn't live long enough? who determines how long an individual lives?
Is it fair, that some people spend 60 years in church learning about Salvation, and still never accept it? while others die young and never hear about God?

 

[Mistyrose]

Like i said before...We all were BORN SINNERS. So therefore,
babies were born sinners, ok?
Original sin is that total corruption of our whole human nature which
we have inherited from Adam through our parents.
Ps.51:5 I was sinful at BIRTH, sinful from the time my mother
conceived me.
Roman 5:12 Sin entered the world through one man, and death
through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all
sinned.
Who brought sin into the world?
The devil brought sin into the world by tempting Adam and Eve,
who of their own free will yielded to the temptation.

 

[Cheri]

I meant original sin is inherent in everybody, including babies whether they know it or not, commit a sin or not.....

That's correct. I don't need to have my say in here Tousi and Defee covered it all.

 

[Blade Runner]

That's correct. I don't need to have my say in here Tousi and Defee covered it all.

Right. A lot of people have committed a sin without even knowing it. Take Yiffzer for example. He said he does not want low-functioning deaf people and atheists to post in this thread. He is judging these people without taking in consideration of what they might bring to the table. Judgment is an original sin. It goes back to biblical times.

People, would you choose to invite all varying opinions into this thread or be narrow-minded like Yiffzer and push away all the differing opinions? I ask you all to look deep inside yourselves and ask yourselves this: "Would I judge people or allow them to state their opinions no matter how weak their grammar is and be a good listener?"

Something to think about when you're doing a sin.

 

[Cheri]

Right. A lot of people have committed a sin without even knowing it. Take Yiffzer for example..

Don't worry about Yiffzer, Worry more about yourself. Shall we get back on topic?

 

[Blade Runner]

Don't worry about Yiffzer, Worry more about yourself. Shall we get back on topic?

I agree. How would you define an original sin. What constitutes an original sin?

Is it stealing? Looting? Lying?

For me, It means not being true to yourself.

 

[Reba]

Babies are born with the sin nature but they don't consciously commit sins until later. They aren't accountable for their sins until they are old enough (mentally) to understand the concept of sin. (This also includes adult people who never developed a mature brain because of mental retardation, for example.) That age varies by individual.

Jesus' shed blood on the cross redeemed us all from the penalty of the sin nature, which is automatic, and the sins committed, which is a free will acceptance by the sinner. Therefor, babies and young children are safe in Jesus, and will go to Heaven if they die before the age of accountability. No baptism or ceremony is necessary.

People old enough to be accountable for their sins committed will be saved by Jesus if they repent of those sins committed, and accept Jesus as Savior. No one knows the exact age of accountability because each person is different.

Remember what David said after his infant son died:

II Samuel 12
22 And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live? 23 But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.

David was comforted because he knew he would someday see his son again in eternity because his son was safe as an unaccountable baby, and he himself (David) was saved as a repentant sinner. They would reunite after David died.

 

[Reba]

I agree. How would you define an original sin. What constitutes an original sin?

"Original" sin means the "first" sin committed. The original sin committed by mankind was the sin of disobedience committed by Adam and Eve when they ate the forbidden fruit.

 

[Yiffzer]

Jordan, I do not appreciate your personal attacks and trolling that does nothing for the topic. But if you'd like to actually discuss the very topic here, then fine. Just please don't attack me or anything else. I'm giving you a chance starting now.

 

[DreamSlayer]

For the sake of arguement, I would like to see one Bible verse, just one, that says that you need to be aware you are sinning for it to count as Sin.

again, I will quote -
Ezekiel 45:20 You are to do the same on the seventh day of the month for anyone who sins unintentionally or through ignorance; so you are to make atonement for the temple.

Numbers 15:28 And the Priest shall make atonement for the Soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the lord, to make atonement for him. and it shall be forgiven him.

It is possible to SIN through IGNORANCE, or UNINTENTIONALLY.

Second, I would also like to see a verse within the Bible that says an individual is "Safe" until a specific age.
I will quote again;

Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned
1 John 1:10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.

1 John 5:4 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5 Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God

Proverbs 20:11 Even a child is known by his actions, by whether his conduct is pure and right.

Job 25:4 4 How then can a man be righteous before God? How can one born of woman be pure?

Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God

Age of Accountability is not founded biblically, although is a comforting thought.

As for King David and his comment.
First, there is the debate as to how Sheol was divided before Christ, In fact it was possible for individuals to see each other across the divide, as is evident from the story of Abraham's Bossom. (which I would argue is not a parable.)
Second, the verse never claims the child is saved.

However, I will point out that God will do what is right, and just.

Romans 9:15 For He saith unto Moses, I will have Mercy on whom I will have Mercy, and I will have Compassion on whom I will have Compassion!

Don't assume that there is an age, or a mental requirement.
Live as though Jesus Christ is the only way to Heaven, and preach that he is the only way to be Saved. Take Comfort in the fact that God is Love.
Don't try and put rules and bounderies on Him that He has not explained through His Word.
God Bless.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

DreamSlayer, *curious question*

It´s interesting to read your posts here... it got me curious what kind of religion, you believe in?...

 

[DreamSlayer]

I believe in Jesus Christ.
I attend a baptist church.
I also hold scripture to be true.

If it is a biblically based question, I try to argue from a biblical stand point.
And although the whole "do babies go to heaven?" is perplexing, I couldn't find any support for accountability in what I have read.

Maybe there is scripture that shows otherwise, if so, please correct my error.
Thanx

 

[christlovedeaf]

I couldn't say more, Reba, Tousi, cheri, dream answer it all.

 

[Blade Runner]

Jordan, I do not appreciate your personal attacks and trolling that does nothing for the topic. But if you'd like to actually discuss the very topic here, then fine. Just please don't attack me or anything else. I'm giving you a chance starting now.

How do I know you'll give me or anyone a chance to speak their opinion about original sins?

You won't let everyone else speak their mind in this thread.

Remove the header in your original post, and allow everyone to particpate in this thread, then I won't bust you for being so judgmental towards other members here at AD.

That is my deal. Take it or don't bother with posting in this thread.

About Original Sin, what do you feel about what constitutes original sin? Keep in mind, I want everyone involved with this discussion. (Yes, even the Atheists.)

 

[Blade Runner]

"Original" sin means the "first" sin committed. The original sin committed by mankind was the sin of disobedience committed by Adam and Eve when they ate the forbidden fruit.

Right, and some people would believe that premarital sex is also an original sin since we were told by God not to have sex before marriage, yet, many people broke that law.

 

[SxyPorkie]

Babies are perfectly capable of lying within a few months of birth. Babies can fake their crying to get attention or milk. They may do it on impulse but they certainly know that they are faking it.

So in a sense, they do sin because they resort to dishonesty in order to gain.

How do one lie without knowing it's a lie?

There I agree with you...

 

[SxyPorkie]

Note: Please refrain from attacks. Only post if you have certain knowledge. Do not make speculation. I request posters to please type clearly as possible; I do not appreciate condensed posts with no organization. I wish Atheists and Jordan (RITCount, SyrOrange, etc.) to not post in this thread. Thank you.

Christians, I wish to understand from Christianity's point of view of how and why original sin makes proper sense besides the fact that we all sin. My biggest concern with the original sin is that by rule/law, it also considers babies as sinners too. What justification is there for a baby to be a considered a sinner? If the baby is a sinner, what sins would a baby commit? Please share your thoughts.

-Yiffzer.

Wow.. You have nerve to post Note against certain people.... they have a right to come in here and debate..... you only want us all to agree to every post of yours... thats where you are wrong.. you judge us all..... it is very wrong...