Lying is allowed.... Warning about lyers is not !!

[Liza]

Cloggy, YES I do agree people need to speak up IF they clearly recognize something to be wrong. That is integrity, and it is a positive thing to give others that kind of opportunity of change. I understand and appreciate your point about the need to have a healthy environment to have well-rounded and multi-sided discussions. Lying, backstabbing, hypocrisy, and the dense mucky sides of human nature are indeed unwelcome distractions. They can be also subjective and open to agreement to disagreements, whether you like it or not.

How can we hold others accountable by their personal words and integrity? How can we do that and still adhere with the message board's established boundaries? THAT is also a part of our integrity, IMO, the moment we agreed to be members here. More than one consideration to have at once, methinks.

Expecting us to stay out others' "personal" business on a forum might be a little extreme, since that was public content already. Some things need to be open for discussion, because they can have a positive direction of people learning from them. But IMO we have to understand when we, too, can get out of line with how we express ourselves or something that is unacceptable.. even if we are in the right. I often think about that. Also, sometimes, people have a lack of understanding for the subject that we find very important. It is a difficult thing for everyone, I think.

 

[Boult]

See this post that lilly made to sxyporkie after she bashed him for not using sign language.
http://www.alldeaf.com/sign-language-oralism/40038-vid-greatest-irony.html#post746878
I can't remember the exact sentence but something to the effect like "it's your fault for not using sign language and you should use ASL" whatever..

When I saw her post, I posted a post saying "We have been thru this before in CI section" something to that effect and told her not to bash her and asked the mod to clean up the thread. But it was not cleaned up completely though.

I notified lilly'sdad off the board that the thread was cleaned up and now he knows why sxyporkie's and mine was deleted.

somehow later on lilly'sdad posted a thread to say good bye and in that thread, she saw this and said "Whoa" then after many posts by others plus mine, she said this....
http://www.alldeaf.com/hearing-aids-cochlear-implants/40100-good-bye.html#post747851

Well what do you think? I think hypocrite! that's why I left some hint in that closed thread(on page 2)

 

[Cheri]

Now, I see where it all happened. Yes, I agree better term would be hypocrite. Lillys dad did pointed out that he know a very little signs on his very first post. I don't see how she could have missed that.

I got my own issue with Lillys dad, not about his daughter, but about how he debates, there are times he would have a hot head when it comes to debates, When it comes to debates there are two competing sides, respect comes along with it, I'll show you this thread where we debated in, and seeing how he responds

OK, Here goes, If you are offended by a little foul language, then do not read the following....
Some of you people fuck me up!!!!!!!

LA Police in YOUTUBE beating film

Narrow minded bias stereytypical hypocits. You people fuckin amaze me. Just keep your head buried in the sand and believing what the media wants you to believe.

You see my point? Cloggy never posted something like this, that's why I usual find myself debates with Cloggy, because he knows how to show respect, respect comes in two way street not one way.

I also know that Lily's dad wants the moderators to take action on any attacks made toward to him, I've seen his thread in cochlear implant but didn't he also made attacks on members here? It goes both ways.

 

[shel90]

Now, I see where it all happened. Yes, I agree better term would be hypocrite. Lillys dad did pointed out that he know a very little signs on his very first post. I don't see how she could have missed that.

I got my own issue with Lillys dad, not about his daughter, but about how he debates, there are times he would have a hot head when it comes to debates, When it comes to debates there are two competing sides, respect comes along with it, I'll show you this thread where we debated in, and seeing how he responds



LA Police in YOUTUBE beating film



You see my point? Cloggy never posted something like this, that's why I usual find myself debates with Cloggy, because he knows how to show respect, respect comes in two way street not one way.

I also know that Lily's dad wants the moderators to take action on any attacks made toward to him, I've seen his thread in cochlear implant but didn't he also made attacks on members here? It goes both ways.

Wow..that totally refreshes my memory..yea, when I first joined AD, I didnt really like Lillysdad's posts in the police threads and in some of the CI threads. I got the feeling that if we disagreed with him, we would get attacked.

U are right about Cloggy..dont recall him attacking anyone. Just standing up for his beliefs which we all do here anyway.

 

[SxyPorkie]

Wow..that totally refreshes my memory..yea, when I first joined AD, I didnt really like Lillysdad's posts in the police threads and in some of the CI threads. I got the feeling that if we disagreed with him, we would get attacked.

U are right about Cloggy..dont recall him attacking anyone. Just standing up for his beliefs which we all do here anyway.

Oh well I strongly believe that children with CI or oral should know the sign langauges ... that goes along with the parebts to communicate with deaf child.. in spite of Ci .. still need to know the sign langauge...

 

[Cheri]

Oh well I strongly believe that children with CI or oral should know the sign langauges ... that goes along with the parebts to communicate with deaf child.. in spite of Ci .. still need to know the sign langauge...

And Lilly's dad did stated that he knows a little of signs, Why did you attacked him? Don't you think you owe him an apology?

 

[SxyPorkie]

And Lilly's dad did stated that he knows a little of signs, Why did you attacked him? Don't you think you owe him an apology?

I did not attack him at all... he want to know certain sign mean... I only said he should learn ASL.. to communicate with his daughter... in spite of CI....i just want him to be aware how important ASL to all deaf or oral children...If he took it wrong as insult.. it is his problem.. he knew how important to use ASL.. in case children with CI..not using the processors like in bed... a child need to communicate with parents by signs....

I was born HOH... but ASL WAS MY FIRST LANGAUGES....I had met and made friends with oral friends... they all kept telling me that they wish they learn ASL but parents did not let them...I taught them....now they got married and use ASL big time... they were happy...

 

[Cloggy]

I did not attack him at all... he want to know certain sign mean... I only said he should learn ASL.. to communicate with his daughter... in spite of CI....i just want him to be aware how important ASL to all deaf or oral children...If he took it wrong as insult.. it is his problem.. he knew how important to use ASL.. in case children with CI..not using the processors like in bed... a child need to communicate with parents by signs....

I was born HOH... but ASL WAS MY FIRST LANGAUGES....I had met and made friends with oral friends... they all kept telling me that they wish they learn ASL but parents did not let them...I taught them....now they got married and use ASL big time... they were happy...

SxyPorkie,
This thread is ABSOLUTELY not about sign, CI, ASL... so don't change the subject, don't divert, and don't play the "I'm a widow and such a poor little woman, and I do not lie.."

This thread is about people lying and backstabbing.

Even though this thread is a thread in general, the first example I can think off is you.
It was you that dropped a post about me saying that you thought it "really bad that I did not teach my daughter sign." I asked you to tell me where on earth you got that rediculous mis-information, and you never did. It was not just an imagination, it was a pure lie to incriminate me. I (and many others) know you know I taught sign to my daughter, just like I (and many others) know that you know that LillysDad does.
So, you do the same with LillysDad, and when he says he has enough, you even have the nerve to say "I really liked him".
In addition you describe how someone is feeding SM information... and accuse a "young boy" whereas in fact it is you that is doing it..

LillysDad was right on the money when he said.

Sxy, bla bla bla. You iether have a very short memory, or are trying to stir the pot. Either way, you are wrong. Sleep well, because comments like yours are one of the biggest reasons that hearign parents raise thier children away from deaf culture.

Well, stirring the pot really helped... he's gone. So that's 1-0 for you...
and a big loss for AllDeaf..

 

[Cloggy]

I also know that Lily's dad wants the moderators to take action on any attacks made toward to him, I've seen his thread in cochlear implant but didn't he also made attacks on members here? It goes both ways.

Absolutely, it does go both ways.
And I realise people are passionate about something... and will write language that is strong....

But, it strong language is banned, but lying with a sweet voice is condoned, then the wound is getting more and more infected....
I have not read everything LillysDad has written, and I have actually never been in the police department of AllDeaf, but I have a feeling that he has never lied, and has never backstabbed... Nor had a hypocritical attitude.

Actually, come to think of it, it should not go both ways....
When someone lies, and instead of adressing the lie, the other person is allowed to lie back... that makes two lies... A double problem.
It should be a dead-end street!!!

 

[Cheri]

This thread is about people lying and backstabbing.

To be quite honest Cloggy, It's very common along to some people out on the internet that spread untruthful statements about a person, even some slanders ruin people's reputations. I know because it had happened to me, just because I say something on a forum, so has everyone else, only my name been mention, why is that? simple reason jealously nor a person has so much hate build up inside, because of a post or a thread, and took things far out of proportion and just want to stander someone's name for the hell of it, often shows the downfalls of their true characters.

People just need to show leniency towards others, which meaning apologizing. Some people just don't know when to closed their mouth and get the facts of knowledge of the person when I say that it means "IRL" (In real life), Sxyporkie shouldn't have judged Lily's dad if she isn't so certain about what method he is using now with his daughter.

 

[SxyPorkie]

To be quite honest Cloggy, It's very common along to some people out on the internet that spread untruthful statements about a person, even some slanders ruin people's reputations. I know because it had happened to me, just because I say something on a forum, so has everyone else, only my name been mention, why is that? simple reason jealously nor a person has so much hate build up inside, because of a post or a thread, and took things far out of proportion and just want to stander someone's name for the hell of it, often shows the downfalls of their true characters.

People just need to show leniency towards others, which meaning apologizing. Some people just don't know when to closed their mouth and get the facts of knowledge of the person when I say that it means "IRL" (In real life), Sxyporkie shouldn't have judged Lily's dad if she isn't so certain about what method he is using now with his daughter.

Here is a poem in other thread..

http://www.alldeaf.com/creative-writing/39434-i-found-site-sad.html#post754948

I did not JUDGE Lilysdad.... he came in here whining that he knows very little signs...All i say is for him to learn more in order to communicate with his daughter...It is not my fault if he did not learn signs... I just want him to wake up and imporve communications with his daughter....

 

[Cloggy]

Here is a poem in other thread..

http://www.alldeaf.com/creative-writing/39434-i-found-site-sad.html#post754948

I did not JUDGE Lilysdad.... he came in here whining that he knows very little signs...All i say is for him to learn more in order to communicate with his daughter...It is not my fault if he did not learn signs... I just want him to wake up and imporve communications with his daughter....

You just proved my point..

He uses sign, he is communicating with his daughter and you know it! You are trying to wiggle your way out of it.

Any video where sign is used will be difficult to understand, and as I recall, he got the message.
He is teaching sign at the school. Basic sign to help people communicate better with their children.

And you know all this... It has been in many posts.

And if you didn't know this.... (witch I really doubt..)....

Then you own him a huge apology for saying what you said!!!

And I'll apologize to you for saying that you did know....

 

[jillio]

Sidertracking on the subject of using sign. That's something we agree to disagree with. That's how it should be.

The subject, or question is...

When somebody lies, and you can prove it.... why is it then impossible to explain this to other members. Show how someone is intentionally lying to discredit you...
The accusation has been done, but there's no way to reply, except saying "Yes I do" or "No I didn't"

This is not about having different opinions.!! This is about members making sure that other memers act with respect.

Like I said before... No saying antything is condoning.!!

There's medication available for that paranoia.

 

[webexplorer]

Excuse me, everyone has different opinion using their sign preferences. Some ASL users have excellent grammar, and same for some oral users. If it is in the middle between ASL and oral, then I assume that it is poor. But, I cannot point someone to evidence that. It is okay for people to say white lie which is not a serious issue. The reason is that some people are embarrassing for not going well to help their kids to improve their language.

Yes, I am aware that some CI users are not interested in sign language and more involved in a hearing world. I do not have that problem, but I just wish that they need to know some signs in order to help deaf people's communication with hearing people - not always depend on them but in a general idea. Okay?

I believe that it is important for you to know how to "talk" especially in a hearing world. That's where you need to survive to make a living (oh yes, believe me). Most bosses do not give a damn taking some notes at work except interpreters for the meetings and interviewers.

(ADA is not always work for many deaf people and handicapped people. Many people misunderstood what the ADA do for them. i.e. better lights, a better keyboard, a good chair, ramps, etc. That is ADA requirement if they need for their work. For EEO, that's where they report for discrimination issues. EEO agents take it very seriously.) Why I bring this one? How a parent teaches their kids to learn how to communicate... and get a job when they get older. It is not a good idea for someone to lie to you. It's great that you have many good advises. Some advise could be bad ones so it is not their fault. I consider that we, deafies and hearies, are not perfect in the both worlds.

 

[shel90]

Excuse me, everyone has different opinion using their sign preferences. Some ASL users have excellent grammar, and same for some oral users. If it is in the middle between ASL and oral, then I assume that it is poor. But, I cannot point someone to evidence that. It is okay for people to say white lie which is not a serious issue. The reason is that some people are embarrassing for not going well to help their kids to improve their language.

Yes, I am aware that some CI users are not interested in sign language and more involved in a hearing world. I do not have that problem, but I just wish that they need to know some signs in order to help deaf people's communication with hearing people - not always depend on them but in a general idea. Okay?

I believe that it is important for you to know how to "talk" especially in a hearing world. That's where you need to survive to make a living (oh yes, believe me). Most bosses do not give a damn taking some notes at work except interpreters for the meetings and interviewers.

(ADA is not always work for many deaf people and handicapped people. Many people misunderstood what the ADA do for them. i.e. better lights, a better keyboard, a good chair, ramps, etc. That is ADA requirement if they need for their work. For EEO, that's where they report for discrimination issues. EEO agents take it very seriously.) Why I bring this one? How a parent teaches their kids to learn how to communicate... and get a job when they get older. It is not a good idea for someone to lie to you. It's great that you have many good advises. Some advise could be bad ones so it is not their fault. I consider that we, deafies and hearies, are not perfect in the both worlds.

Then what happens if the deaf child, despite hours in speech therapy, just is unable to pick up decent speech or lipreading skills? Too bad for them? That's what happened to my brother...does that mean he and others like him are doomed for life simply because they werent able to develop "talking" skills? We need to address that issue too..


It just seems like people in general (media, specialists, even some people who have no association with the deaf issues) focus on the oral achievers and use them as poster children as success but not really helping those who didnt succeed in developing in oral skills but are intelligent in ASL and written language? That attitude needs to change.

 

[BearBeauty]

Personally, I can understand what Cloggy and Lilysdad are doing. They're trying to understand the deaf perspective, but at the same time making the best informed decision for their children. And attacking them does not help them. I read their posts that stated they are learning signs and teaching their child signs, while having their children go to oral schools. I hope I'm right on that. Parents are always trying to get all the perspectives they can, and taking those into account when making decisions regarding how their children will learn in an educational enviroment.
I think the parents are doing a good job trying to provide their children with whatever tools the child will need to suceed. and they also realize that the tools may not always work. I know a lot of Aders are trying to help by telling the parents to learn ASL, but remember that they're not going to learn fast, it's going to take time, and the parents are Learning with their children. All we can do is support people who are trying to give their children the tools to succeed.

They are trying their best, and we should try being supportive, offer alternatives if something doesn't work out instead of coming off somewhat hostile. because some of us DO seem to come off hostile when we're trying to help.

 

[shel90]

Personally, I can understand what Cloggy and Lilysdad are doing. They're trying to understand the deaf perspective, but at the same time making the best informed decision for their children. And attacking them does not help them. I read their posts that stated they are learning signs and teaching their child signs, while having their children go to oral schools. I hope I'm right on that. Parents are always trying to get all the perspectives they can, and taking those into account when making decisions regarding how their children will learn in an educational enviroment.
I think the parents are doing a good job trying to provide their children with whatever tools the child will need to suceed. and they also realize that the tools may not always work. I know a lot of Aders are trying to help by telling the parents to learn ASL, but remember that they're not going to learn fast, it's going to take time, and the parents are Learning with their children. All we can do is support people who are trying to give their children the tools to succeed.


They are trying their best, and we should try being supportive, offer alternatives if something doesn't work out instead of coming off somewhat hostile. because some of us DO seem to come off hostile when we're trying to help.

That's one of my big reasons why I have a strong belief that the oral schools should include ASL too cuz we cant expect the parents to be ASL models for their children right away. It takes a long time and that is a huge responsibility to put on the parents to provide an singing environment at home.

I really do not see the point of oral-only schools..just too risky in my opinion cuz maybe half of deaf children will pick up on oral language and develop a strong language foundation but what about the other half that dont pick up on it enough to develop a full language? That's what I see with many kids who come to my school cuz they didnt do well in the oral only programs while they were toddlers. I just feel that is just putting the child's language development at too much risk. Nope, not everyone is gonna like what I have to say but seriously..why oral only schools for babies and toddlers? Why not they provide both? If my brother had been exposed to signing at the oral program we went to, he probably wouldnt have struggled so much with reading and writing. No, everyone just blamed his deaf school instead.

I am not bashing any parents here for their decisions. I know they are doing whatever is best for their children. I am talking about the specialists, doctors and audiologists that emphasize oral-only approach. To me, they are playing Russian roulette with deaf children's language development. I cant accept that due to seeing my brother suffer cuz he lost out on that gamble. Yes, this is gonna sound strong and maybe will upset people but it upsets me that people out there are willing to take that risk and that is just not fair to the children who dont suceed with the oral only approach and end up delayed in language.

 

[Angel]

Wow, a lot of fingerpointing in here, why not both of them just apologize to each others and move on....forgive and forget

 

[highlands]

I am oral but I agree with you Shel90. Teaching both ways may help children with synthesizing both worlds and/or choosing the best way for themselves.

 

[shel90]

Wow, a lot of fingerpointing in here, why not both of them just apologize to each others and move on....forgive and forget

Yea, I agree..

hey, I lied..I am sorry..pls forgive me?