[VID]The Greatest Irony

Boult · 03-23-2007, 10:06 PM

Amy Cohen Efron created the four-part vlog series called, "The Greatest Irony" discussing about two most popular and fastest-growing language programs available for Deaf and Hearing babies. (when viewing part 4, pay attention to ending of the video!)

Start with Part 1

Then Part 2

Then Part 3

Finally Part 4

Enjoy the vlogs!

Lillys dad · 03-23-2007, 11:09 PM

WOW! I was expecting to have audio on that. As said before, I know very little sign. Am I assuming correctly that the irony is the fact that soem parents think it is ok to sign to a hearing baby, but not a deaf baby? After watching it, I am pretty sure that I got the overall message correctly. Right? It is a very ironic. I have thought about the same thing in the past.

jhayden · 03-24-2007, 04:24 PM

Amy Cohen Efron is saying that both programs are available to deaf and hearing babies but it turns out that baby signs are being used more for hearing babies and not for deaf babies which could benefit more from signs.
The deaf baby gets cut off from interacting with the parents since there is no sounds and this may cause some parents to look at implanting a CI or a HA as early as possible without looking at other methods that can be useful in the mean time. She stated hearing devices may not always work for everyone and baby signs is a win for both hearing and deaf babies. I am not sure how true her statement is. I do know that Amy Cohen Efron is a very easy person to lip read.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lillys dad

WOW! I was expecting to have audio on that. As said before, I know very little sign. Am I assuming correctly that the irony is the fact that soem parents think it is ok to sign to a hearing baby, but not a deaf baby? After watching it, I am pretty sure that I got the overall message correctly. Right? It is a very ironic. I have thought about the same thing in the past.

Banjo · 03-24-2007, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhayden

Amy Cohen Efron is saying that both programs are available to deaf and hearing babies but it turns out that baby signs are being used more for hearing babies and not for deaf babies which could benefit more from signs.

The deaf baby gets cut off from interacting with the parents since there is no sounds and this may cause some parents to look at implanting a CI or a HA as early as possible without looking at other methods that can be useful in the mean time. She stated hearing devices may not always work for everyone and baby signs is a win for both hearing and deaf babies. I am not sure how true her statement is. I do know that Amy Cohen Efron is a very easy person to lip read.

It is true that doctors often tell parents to not use sign language with their deaf babies. I can tell you this for a fact as it happened to my parents.

Deaf babies will greatly benefit from learning sign language. Period. It's for the better to have the best of both worlds.

Boult · 03-24-2007, 04:47 PM

I found the transcript for those video above so here you go...
MS WORD NEWLY REVISED TRANSCRIPT DOCUMENT - CLICK HERE

PDF TRANSCRIPT DOCUMENT - CLICK HERE

source: DEAF WORLD AS EYE SEE IT » The Greatest Irony You can find Credits and Sources at this link for those videos

nightcrickets · 03-24-2007, 07:59 PM

Thanks

Boult · 03-24-2007, 09:47 PM

Let's not bash each other (AD Members) but dicuss in here about the video!

Thanks!

Lillys dad · 03-24-2007, 11:00 PM

Sxy, bla bla bla. You iether have a very short memory, or are trying to stir the pot. Either way, you are wrong. Sleep well, because comments like yours are one of the biggest reasons that hearign parents raise thier children away from deaf culture.

Interpretrator · 03-24-2007, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boult

now do you have anythign to say about the videos?

Thanks for posting these here. I saw them someplace else and absolutely agree with her completely. It's ridiculous that sign language is touted as the best thing you can do for your child and has all these benefits...whoops, unless she's deaf! This situation really bugs me and I think Amy did a really good job of presenting her case.

nightcrickets · 03-25-2007, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lillys dad

Sxy, bla bla bla. You iether have a very short memory, or are trying to stir the pot. Either way, you are wrong. Sleep well, because comments like yours are one of the biggest reasons that hearign parents raise thier children away from deaf culture.

In my opinion, the biggest reason Deaf culture is like that BECAUSE of lack of parental roles . IF parents don't have a clear communication with their kids, it is hard to teach them manners and discipline. I wonder have many deaf are well behaved because the parents kept them home and communicate with ASL?

even if they were raised by their parents, their parents were probably deaf and learned their style from their deaf peers in a boarding school in their younger days.

Don't flame me, I am just expressing my thoughts and you all are welcome to correct me.

shel90 · 03-26-2007, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nightcrickets

In my opinion, the biggest reason Deaf culture is like that BECAUSE of lack of parental roles . IF parents don't have a clear communication with their kids, it is hard to teach them manners and discipline. I wonder have many deaf are well behaved because the parents kept them home and communicate with ASL?

even if they were raised by their parents, their parents were probably deaf and learned their style from their deaf peers in a boarding school in their younger days.

Don't flame me, I am just expressing my thoughts and you all are welcome to correct me.

U r right..if parents r unable to communicate with their deaf children, then how can they teach them about beliefs, mannerisms, and family history?

However, not al deaf people have bad manners...it is the same in the hearing world..there r some hearies with bad manners.

Lillysdad..if hearing parents steer their deaf children just because a few deaf people come off too strong, doesn't that make the parents just as wrong? That means they would be lumping all of us into one person?

Lillys dad · 03-26-2007, 09:38 AM

That just may be the case. Think about it. If you were on the outside of a group, looking in. And almost everytime you attempt to join that group, you get shit on, you eventually quit bothering. Besides, it is ALOT harder to introduce your child into a hostile group. It requires alot more work, time effort, and you must be able to overloko personal attacks for making choices that most in a group do not approve of. I guess this attitude is very similar to that of the deaef militants that piss me off. Because they got sick of being treated differently, or looked down upon, they essentially turn thier back on the hearing world.
Look, I am a hearing parent of a deaf child. It qwould be very easy for me to turn my back on the deaf world. I bust my ass trying to learn as much as I can to help my daughter communicate, through sign or speech. I coem to these ssites in an effort to understand, learn and gather info to help Lilly. I DONT HAVE TO DO THIS. We are all very aware that there are deaf adults that have been raised orally only. They have turned out fine. I come here so I can have a better understanding of the issues that affect deaf people and try to understand them.
When I do this, I get attacked. When I respond, I get attacked. WHY? I think it is pretty damned obvious that I am here for the benifit of my daughter. I am the exact opposite of what many here think of a hearing parent of a deaf child with CI.
I try to educate myself, so I can help my daughter. When I do this, I get shit on by the very people that say I should do this.
Why is it that Sxyporkies post has been removed? Could it possibly be that she made very blantent attack on me for something that did not even apply?
Why is it that I completely agree with the content of the above video, and say so. But after I say that I agree. I get attacked and accused of not agreeing with it? Then after the attacking post is removed, I still get attacked?
Look, I am VERY active at my daughters oral deaf ed school. I get invited to give meet with parents who are touring the school. I get invited to speak at school parent meetings, I spend alot of time discussing deaf ed matters to hearing parents of deaf children. I come here (and other sites) to get info, understand, and learn. I make a very serious effort to understand the issues of the deaf community, and try to address them with the other hearing parents. I TELL EVERY PARENT THAT I MEET THAT THEY SHOULD TEACH THIER CHILDREN SIGN. I explain the benifits. But I contiune to get trashed here.
I bust my ass to explain deaf issues in a manner that hearing parents understand in relation to thier children. I agree that there are several issues in the deaf community that need to be addressed by the hearing world. I am tryinf to help. I dont have to do this. I could very easily turn my back on all of this, worry only about my daughter and basically tell everyone else to fuck off! Do I.... no, why? because I am trying to share information between the deaf world, and the hearing world. The deaf community cry all the time about no one in the hearing world listens or cares. But when a hearing person comes along with a voice, platform, a decent degree of understanding, and MAKES the time to get involved, he gets shit on.
AS I said, I dont have to do this, but I do (for now). I am gettign sick and tired of being shit on by the very peopl ethat I am trying to help. I am just about done with all of the cry baby bullsshit that goes on around here. Do I want everyoner to kiss my ass. NO, but do I deserve to at least make a comment outside of the CI section, without being attacked for absolutely no reason? YES.

shel90 · 03-26-2007, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lillys dad

That just may be the case. Think about it. If you were on the outside of a group, looking in. And almost everytime you attempt to join that group, you get shit on, you eventually quit bothering. Besides, it is ALOT harder to introduce your child into a hostile group. It requires alot more work, time effort, and you must be able to overloko personal attacks for making choices that most in a group do not approve of. I guess this attitude is very similar to that of the deaef militants that piss me off. Because they got sick of being treated differently, or looked down upon, they essentially turn thier back on the hearing world.
Look, I am a hearing parent of a deaf child. It qwould be very easy for me to turn my back on the deaf world. I bust my ass trying to learn as much as I can to help my daughter communicate, through sign or speech. I coem to these ssites in an effort to understand, learn and gather info to help Lilly. I DONT HAVE TO DO THIS. We are all very aware that there are deaf adults that have been raised orally only. They have turned out fine. I come here so I can have a better understanding of the issues that affect deaf people and try to understand them.
When I do this, I get attacked. When I respond, I get attacked. WHY? I think it is pretty damned obvious that I am here for the benifit of my daughter. I am the exact opposite of what many here think of a hearing parent of a deaf child with CI.
I try to educate myself, so I can help my daughter. When I do this, I get shit on by the very people that say I should do this.
Why is it that Sxyporkies post has been removed? Could it possibly be that she made very blantent attack on me for something that did not even apply?
Why is it that I completely agree with the content of the above video, and say so. But after I say that I agree. I get attacked and accused of not agreeing with it? Then after the attacking post is removed, I still get attacked?
Look, I am VERY active at my daughters oral deaf ed school. I get invited to give meet with parents who are touring the school. I get invited to speak at school parent meetings, I spend alot of time discussing deaf ed matters to hearing parents of deaf children. I come here (and other sites) to get info, understand, and learn. I make a very serious effort to understand the issues of the deaf community, and try to address them with the other hearing parents. I TELL EVERY PARENT THAT I MEET THAT THEY SHOULD TEACH THIER CHILDREN SIGN. I explain the benifits. But I contiune to get trashed here.
I bust my ass to explain deaf issues in a manner that hearing parents understand in relation to thier children. I agree that there are several issues in the deaf community that need to be addressed by the hearing world. I am tryinf to help. I dont have to do this. I could very easily turn my back on all of this, worry only about my daughter and basically tell everyone else to fuck off! Do I.... no, why? because I am trying to share information between the deaf world, and the hearing world. The deaf community cry all the time about no one in the hearing world listens or cares. But when a hearing person comes along with a voice, platform, a decent degree of understanding, and MAKES the time to get involved, he gets shit on.
AS I said, I dont have to do this, but I do (for now). I am gettign sick and tired of being shit on by the very peopl ethat I am trying to help. I am just about done with all of the cry baby bullsshit that goes on around here. Do I want everyoner to kiss my ass. NO, but do I deserve to at least make a comment outside of the CI section, without being attacked for absolutely no reason? YES.

That's understandable. The deaf militants r wrong..I was just asking u for your opinion if that makes the parents just as wrong for thinking those deaf militants represent everyone in the deaf community.
Not making a statement..just asking first before I make any assumptions.

Gosh..there r so many issues that need to be worked out and lot of anger stemming from both sides. I know I have some anger on how I was raised and I can see the parents' point of view and being angry for being attacked for whatever decisions they make for their children.

When I read Skyportie's POV...I thought right away she either forgot that u sign with your daughter or misunderstood your POV.

Oh well..I get attacked for not providing spoken language during my instruction and u get attacked for "not signing". It seems like a vicous cycle...

nightcrickets · 03-26-2007, 10:32 AM

Don't worry, In a few years, all that will be changed. It's one step at a time. Parents have to think about their deaf children's emotional well being, have good bondage, and raise them the way they should go, and once they do, the deaf culture probably be less hostile in 20 years from now compare to the deaf culture who grew up with hardly no parental roles. most deaf who go to a boarding deaf school have hearing parents take very little interests in them, or ASL. It is almost like sending them to foster homes, and you know many foster kids are hostile as well. My great grandfather didn't take any interested in any of his 3 deaf children. One died in a deaf school and he didn't visit her when she was sick with pneumonia. My grandma never learned ASL for her sister's sakes and her sister was mad at her for that for many years because she really wanted to bond and communicate with her sister, she didn't want to be treated as a third party person. Many deaf people have a lot of bitterness because of lack of bondage within their family members They just want their family to love them as they are and make effort to learn ASL. For right now, Don't bother with the deaf culture, they have scars that won't go away. Just focus on your daughter and make she doesn't have the same scar.

Lillys dad · 03-26-2007, 11:07 AM

Thank you. I do find it amazing that some people have such a screwed up perspective on parenting. The "My child is deaf so I will not interact with them" philosophy just screws people up. But apparently, the long term effect of that philosophy has made some of those ignored family members, just as wrong as the philosphy thier parents had.
"For right now, Don't bother with the deaf culture, they have scars that won't go away. Just focus on your daughter and make she doesn't have the same scar."
This is excellent advice. Why bother. It seems the more hearing peopl etry to understand and help, the more we get treated like crap. Because I am a hearing parent of a deaf child, a police officer, and a school resource officer, I was invited to a local deaf orginization to give a presentation to a groups of CODAs and thier parents about child abduction prevention. I think I will do this, then bow out of efforts to help with deaf culture. I am so sick and tired of the crap. If so many members of deaf culture want thier culture to be screwed up, then who am I to try to help.
After posting the above message, I thought abou tthe whole deaf culture things, and why I am constantly gettign shit on. It dawned on me. A large % of those involved in deaf culture are very negative peopl. They are only happy when they can hurt others. You know, misery loves company. They will not be happy unitl everyone is as miserable as they are. This reminded me of when I used to work in a very nasty, violent area of north St.Louis, in fact, stasticly, it is one of the most violent areas in the country. After working there for years trying to go after drug dealers and gang members, I got so frustrated because I noticed, the more I tried to accomplish in the community, the more the community complained and cried. I finally realized that the community was so decayed, nasty and bitter, they didnt want the help. Those that wanted to escape that enviroment, had alreay left. Which only left the mean bitter nasty people. The only way to change anything was to wait until the neighborhood was so run down, burned down, and vacnat, and all those people were either dead or in prison. Then and only then, will the neighborhood be able to change.
As I have sai dbefore here, a society that refuses to evolve, will eventually become extinct.
AS I said, I have tried so haard to help the deaf community. I get involved, educate myself, talk to anyone that will listen. And at the end of it all, I get shit on. So I think you are right. I will probably have to walk away and quit caring.
What is that saying? "The life you want is the life you get."
You all want a negative, bitter life, in which hearing people dont bother, fine. I have soo many resources at my disposal, hell, the other night I was interviewed and videotaped about these very issues. I have been involved with the local news stations about my involvemtn with the deaf community. Well, once again, another person who is willing to get involved and help gets pushed away.

shel90 · 03-26-2007, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lillys dad

Thank you. I do find it amazing that some people have such a screwed up perspective on parenting. The "My child is deaf so I will not interact with them" philosophy just screws people up. But apparently, the long term effect of that philosophy has made some of those ignored family members, just as wrong as the philosphy thier parents had.
"For right now, Don't bother with the deaf culture, they have scars that won't go away. Just focus on your daughter and make she doesn't have the same scar."
This is excellent advice. Why bother. It seems the more hearing peopl etry to understand and help, the more we get treated like crap. Because I am a hearing parent of a deaf child, a police officer, and a school resource officer, I was invited to a local deaf orginization to give a presentation to a groups of CODAs and thier parents about child abduction prevention. I think I will do this, then bow out of efforts to help with deaf culture. I am so sick and tired of the crap. If so many members of deaf culture want thier culture to be screwed up, then who am I to try to help.
After posting the above message, I thought abou tthe whole deaf culture things, and why I am constantly gettign shit on. It dawned on me. A large % of those involved in deaf culture are very negative peopl. They are only happy when they can hurt others. You know, misery loves company. They will not be happy unitl everyone is as miserable as they are. This reminded me of when I used to work in a very nasty, violent area of north St.Louis, in fact, stasticly, it is one of the most violent areas in the country. After working there for years trying to go after drug dealers and gang members, I got so frustrated because I noticed, the more I tried to accomplish in the community, the more the community complained and cried. I finally realized that the community was so decayed, nasty and bitter, they didnt want the help. Those that wanted to escape that enviroment, had alreay left. Which only left the mean bitter nasty people. The only way to change anything was to wait until the neighborhood was so run down, burned down, and vacnat, and all those people were either dead or in prison. Then and only then, will the neighborhood be able to change.
As I have sai dbefore here, a society that refuses to evolve, will eventually become extinct.
AS I said, I have tried so haard to help the deaf community. I get involved, educate myself, talk to anyone that will listen. And at the end of it all, I get shit on. So I think you are right. I will probably have to walk away and quit caring.
What is that saying? "The life you want is the life you get."
You all want a negative, bitter life, in which hearing people dont bother, fine. I have soo many resources at my disposal, hell, the other night I was interviewed and videotaped about these very issues. I have been involved with the local news stations about my involvemtn with the deaf community. Well, once again, another person who is willing to get involved and help gets pushed away.

Your daughter is very lucky to have u who is willing to meet her needs and give her all the opportunities. Again, I want to apologize if I made any statements in any threads that gave u the impression that I was bashing u.

The reason I said your daughter is so luycky is cuz many of us weren't as lucky. Iam sure u know about my struggles in identifying myself as a hearing person and unable to meet everyone's expectations to function like a hearing person. I got punished, criticized and yelled at by so many teachers for not trying hard enough in the class and I used to blame myself for not doing all the things they expected..such as saying a certain sound, mispronoucing a word, getting bad grades on spelling tests for mixing the words up like for example, pat and mat, and worse of all for not following the class discussions. So yea, of course when I finally realized it wasn't my fault since due to my deafness, it was physically impossible so yea I became pissed off! They were the adults and they had a responsibility to ensure that my needs were being met but since they expected me to meet their hearing needs so yea..I don't understand that but then again, I have to remember that they probably didn't know much about deafness. Knowing that, it still hasn't made my anger go away completely. Iam not as angry as I used to be cuz I went to therapy for it..just once in a while, I get flashbacks or a situation reminds me of the kind of pressure and anxiety I experienced growing up. My family..that's another issue and iam not going there now. At least my mom is finally making the effort to learn ASL so iam so GRATEFUL for that!

My friend's mom won't speak to her cuz she married a deaf guy. That really hurted her cuz it showed that her mom never really truly accepted her and her deafness. Her mom was always yelling at her if she couldn't understand her on the phone so those kinds of things can fuel the bitterness and anger. There r many more of my deaf friends who felt that their families didn't try to meet their needs or forced them to perform like hearing people.

I can't speak for the deaf community but yes, it is wrong to attack parents in general. Have to learn to just let it go and be more supportive.

Yea, probably best to focus on your daughter only and not worry about deaf culture and its issues. Like nightcrickets stated, maybe in 20 years the attitudes will be different. I surely hope so.

BearBeauty · 03-26-2007, 02:20 PM

personally, I agree with Amy... baby signs should be used for both deaf and hearing. not just hearing alone. Deaf children will have more success if they are taught to sign while learning to speak. that's Just My opinion.

And Personally speaking... I like talking to anybody, I don't care if you have very little expierence in ASL or grew up orally.. I'll welcome you as a friend. Even if I will be teaching you signs.. I just don't think it's fair to cast out a person because of something they can't help.

Lillys dad · 03-26-2007, 03:01 PM

I think Im finished here. For those that support ma and what I am doing with Lilly, thank you.
I will heed the advice given today and be finished with my involvment in deaf culture. I will still continue with Lilyl and her progress. Afterall, she is my daughter and I will do whatever I feel is right for her. For those that haev given insight to questions, given honset, non-biased advice, thank you.

Interpretrator · 03-26-2007, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lillys dad

I think Im finished here. For those that support ma and what I am doing with Lilly, thank you.
I will heed the advice given today and be finished with my involvment in deaf culture. I will still continue with Lilyl and her progress. Afterall, she is my daughter and I will do whatever I feel is right for her. For those that haev given insight to questions, given honset, non-biased advice, thank you.

Oh come on. Don't let a few moronic posts around here chase you off. Just let it be an unfortunate but necessary preparation for what you're going to face from some people as Lilly grows up.

Where I work, all students are accepted by one another -- CI, oral, signing, whatever. If they have a CI and they sign, so much the better. It's not so black and white everywhere, for everyone.

This place can get under your skin, but there's a world of difference between a person hiding behind a screen name comfortably and anonymously insulting you with no consequences, and a person seeing your beautiful daughter and her loving father face to face -- especially as Lilly grows up with fluency in both English and ASL.

Lillys dad · 03-26-2007, 04:22 PM

Good bye

Banjo · 03-26-2007, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Interpretrator

Oh come on. Don't let a few moronic posts around here chase you off. Just let it be an unfortunate but necessary preparation for what you're going to face from some people as Lilly grows up.

Where I work, all students are accepted by one another -- CI, oral, signing, whatever. If they have a CI and they sign, so much the better. It's not so black and white everywhere, for everyone.

This place can get under your skin, but there's a world of difference between a person hiding behind a screen name comfortably and anonymously insulting you with no consequences, and a person seeing your beautiful daughter and her loving father face to face -- especially as Lilly grows up with fluency in both English and ASL.

Well said. As a Deaf person, I am aware that there are people who are "strongly opposed" to cochlear implants, oralism, etc. Believe me, I know a lot about it.

The problem with some of these people is due to insecurity issues, but some of them do have valid concerns about the ethics of the technology and how it's being pushed onto some families. What Lilly's Dad is doing is a great thing by exposing her to ASL and other deaf people. If they aren't exposed to other deaf people, they will grow up feeling like they're missing something.

It's nice to have friends who share something in common which is deafness. It gives each other a better understanding of what it's like.

I just wish Lilly's Dad wouldn't give up this fast, my parents has done much, much more than you can possibly imagine. No offense, but they do understand what you mean. Their experiences turned out to be more positive than negative if they know the right people. They are hearing and they started learning sign language for me when I was a child and exposed me to the deaf community and the culture.

I couldn't had asked for better parents.

nightcrickets · 03-26-2007, 04:35 PM

I was referring to deaf culture who treat you with disrespect because you are hearing and all , cussing at you and everything just because they didn't like how you handle your daughter. I am telling you pay no attention to them. I didn't mean all deaf people.

We only speak out to make sure the parents do not take the same path that our parent made. Nothing wrong with that is it? And we don't like it when Audiologist tell parents that oral is the only way to go. We want tell doctors and Audiologist not to give parents that advice since they seek for their advice as the final decision. Just trying to be heard that's all. Reality, deaf people want both ASL and Oral communication.

nightcrickets · 03-26-2007, 04:39 PM

Sounds like he is having a real bad week or something to take everything personal.

03-23-2007, 11:09 PM	#2 (permalink)
Lillys dad Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: St. Louis MO. Posts: 863	WOW! I was expecting to have audio on that. As said before, I know very little sign. Am I assuming correctly that the irony is the fact that soem parents think it is ok to sign to a hearing baby, but not a deaf baby? After watching it, I am pretty sure that I got the overall message correctly. Right? It is a very ironic. I have thought about the same thing in the past. __________________ Lilly CI right ear Sept 8 2005 CI left ear Jan 17 2007

03-24-2007, 11:00 PM	#8 (permalink)
Lillys dad Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: St. Louis MO. Posts: 863	Sxy, bla bla bla. You iether have a very short memory, or are trying to stir the pot. Either way, you are wrong. Sleep well, because comments like yours are one of the biggest reasons that hearign parents raise thier children away from deaf culture. __________________ Lilly CI right ear Sept 8 2005 CI left ear Jan 17 2007

03-26-2007, 09:38 AM	#12 (permalink)
Lillys dad Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: St. Louis MO. Posts: 863	That just may be the case. Think about it. If you were on the outside of a group, looking in. And almost everytime you attempt to join that group, you get shit on, you eventually quit bothering. Besides, it is ALOT harder to introduce your child into a hostile group. It requires alot more work, time effort, and you must be able to overloko personal attacks for making choices that most in a group do not approve of. I guess this attitude is very similar to that of the deaef militants that piss me off. Because they got sick of being treated differently, or looked down upon, they essentially turn thier back on the hearing world. Look, I am a hearing parent of a deaf child. It qwould be very easy for me to turn my back on the deaf world. I bust my ass trying to learn as much as I can to help my daughter communicate, through sign or speech. I coem to these ssites in an effort to understand, learn and gather info to help Lilly. I DONT HAVE TO DO THIS. We are all very aware that there are deaf adults that have been raised orally only. They have turned out fine. I come here so I can have a better understanding of the issues that affect deaf people and try to understand them. When I do this, I get attacked. When I respond, I get attacked. WHY? I think it is pretty damned obvious that I am here for the benifit of my daughter. I am the exact opposite of what many here think of a hearing parent of a deaf child with CI. I try to educate myself, so I can help my daughter. When I do this, I get shit on by the very people that say I should do this. Why is it that Sxyporkies post has been removed? Could it possibly be that she made very blantent attack on me for something that did not even apply? Why is it that I completely agree with the content of the above video, and say so. But after I say that I agree. I get attacked and accused of not agreeing with it? Then after the attacking post is removed, I still get attacked? Look, I am VERY active at my daughters oral deaf ed school. I get invited to give meet with parents who are touring the school. I get invited to speak at school parent meetings, I spend alot of time discussing deaf ed matters to hearing parents of deaf children. I come here (and other sites) to get info, understand, and learn. I make a very serious effort to understand the issues of the deaf community, and try to address them with the other hearing parents. I TELL EVERY PARENT THAT I MEET THAT THEY SHOULD TEACH THIER CHILDREN SIGN. I explain the benifits. But I contiune to get trashed here. I bust my ass to explain deaf issues in a manner that hearing parents understand in relation to thier children. I agree that there are several issues in the deaf community that need to be addressed by the hearing world. I am tryinf to help. I dont have to do this. I could very easily turn my back on all of this, worry only about my daughter and basically tell everyone else to fuck off! Do I.... no, why? because I am trying to share information between the deaf world, and the hearing world. The deaf community cry all the time about no one in the hearing world listens or cares. But when a hearing person comes along with a voice, platform, a decent degree of understanding, and MAKES the time to get involved, he gets shit on. AS I said, I dont have to do this, but I do (for now). I am gettign sick and tired of being shit on by the very peopl ethat I am trying to help. I am just about done with all of the cry baby bullsshit that goes on around here. Do I want everyoner to kiss my ass. NO, but do I deserve to at least make a comment outside of the CI section, without being attacked for absolutely no reason? YES. __________________ Lilly CI right ear Sept 8 2005 CI left ear Jan 17 2007

03-26-2007, 11:07 AM	#15 (permalink)
Lillys dad Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: St. Louis MO. Posts: 863	Thank you. I do find it amazing that some people have such a screwed up perspective on parenting. The "My child is deaf so I will not interact with them" philosophy just screws people up. But apparently, the long term effect of that philosophy has made some of those ignored family members, just as wrong as the philosphy thier parents had. "For right now, Don't bother with the deaf culture, they have scars that won't go away. Just focus on your daughter and make she doesn't have the same scar." This is excellent advice. Why bother. It seems the more hearing peopl etry to understand and help, the more we get treated like crap. Because I am a hearing parent of a deaf child, a police officer, and a school resource officer, I was invited to a local deaf orginization to give a presentation to a groups of CODAs and thier parents about child abduction prevention. I think I will do this, then bow out of efforts to help with deaf culture. I am so sick and tired of the crap. If so many members of deaf culture want thier culture to be screwed up, then who am I to try to help. After posting the above message, I thought abou tthe whole deaf culture things, and why I am constantly gettign shit on. It dawned on me. A large % of those involved in deaf culture are very negative peopl. They are only happy when they can hurt others. You know, misery loves company. They will not be happy unitl everyone is as miserable as they are. This reminded me of when I used to work in a very nasty, violent area of north St.Louis, in fact, stasticly, it is one of the most violent areas in the country. After working there for years trying to go after drug dealers and gang members, I got so frustrated because I noticed, the more I tried to accomplish in the community, the more the community complained and cried. I finally realized that the community was so decayed, nasty and bitter, they didnt want the help. Those that wanted to escape that enviroment, had alreay left. Which only left the mean bitter nasty people. The only way to change anything was to wait until the neighborhood was so run down, burned down, and vacnat, and all those people were either dead or in prison. Then and only then, will the neighborhood be able to change. As I have sai dbefore here, a society that refuses to evolve, will eventually become extinct. AS I said, I have tried so haard to help the deaf community. I get involved, educate myself, talk to anyone that will listen. And at the end of it all, I get shit on. So I think you are right. I will probably have to walk away and quit caring. What is that saying? "The life you want is the life you get." You all want a negative, bitter life, in which hearing people dont bother, fine. I have soo many resources at my disposal, hell, the other night I was interviewed and videotaped about these very issues. I have been involved with the local news stations about my involvemtn with the deaf community. Well, once again, another person who is willing to get involved and help gets pushed away. __________________ Lilly CI right ear Sept 8 2005 CI left ear Jan 17 2007

03-26-2007, 03:01 PM	#18 (permalink)
Lillys dad Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: St. Louis MO. Posts: 863	I think Im finished here. For those that support ma and what I am doing with Lilly, thank you. I will heed the advice given today and be finished with my involvment in deaf culture. I will still continue with Lilyl and her progress. Afterall, she is my daughter and I will do whatever I feel is right for her. For those that haev given insight to questions, given honset, non-biased advice, thank you. __________________ Lilly CI right ear Sept 8 2005 CI left ear Jan 17 2007

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03-24-2007, 07:59 PM	#6 (permalink)
nightcrickets Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 225	Thanks

03-26-2007, 10:32 AM	#14 (permalink)
nightcrickets Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 225	Don't worry, In a few years, all that will be changed. It's one step at a time. Parents have to think about their deaf children's emotional well being, have good bondage, and raise them the way they should go, and once they do, the deaf culture probably be less hostile in 20 years from now compare to the deaf culture who grew up with hardly no parental roles. most deaf who go to a boarding deaf school have hearing parents take very little interests in them, or ASL. It is almost like sending them to foster homes, and you know many foster kids are hostile as well. My great grandfather didn't take any interested in any of his 3 deaf children. One died in a deaf school and he didn't visit her when she was sick with pneumonia. My grandma never learned ASL for her sister's sakes and her sister was mad at her for that for many years because she really wanted to bond and communicate with her sister, she didn't want to be treated as a third party person. Many deaf people have a lot of bitterness because of lack of bondage within their family members They just want their family to love them as they are and make effort to learn ASL. For right now, Don't bother with the deaf culture, they have scars that won't go away. Just focus on your daughter and make she doesn't have the same scar.

03-26-2007, 02:20 PM	#17 (permalink)
BearBeauty Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 818	personally, I agree with Amy... baby signs should be used for both deaf and hearing. not just hearing alone. Deaf children will have more success if they are taught to sign while learning to speak. that's Just My opinion. And Personally speaking... I like talking to anybody, I don't care if you have very little expierence in ASL or grew up orally.. I'll welcome you as a friend. Even if I will be teaching you signs.. I just don't think it's fair to cast out a person because of something they can't help.

03-26-2007, 04:22 PM	#20 (permalink)
Lillys dad Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: St. Louis MO. Posts: 863	Good bye __________________ Lilly CI right ear Sept 8 2005 CI left ear Jan 17 2007

03-26-2007, 04:35 PM	#22 (permalink)
nightcrickets Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 225	I was referring to deaf culture who treat you with disrespect because you are hearing and all , cussing at you and everything just because they didn't like how you handle your daughter. I am telling you pay no attention to them. I didn't mean all deaf people. We only speak out to make sure the parents do not take the same path that our parent made. Nothing wrong with that is it? And we don't like it when Audiologist tell parents that oral is the only way to go. We want tell doctors and Audiologist not to give parents that advice since they seek for their advice as the final decision. Just trying to be heard that's all. Reality, deaf people want both ASL and Oral communication.

03-26-2007, 04:39 PM	#23 (permalink)
nightcrickets Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 225	Sounds like he is having a real bad week or something to take everything personal.