"Judge not, that ye be not judge"

jazzy said:
I am quote this from the bible;

I form light and create darkness, I make weal and create woe, I am the LORD, who do all these things. Isiah 45:6-7 from KJV

Now would u tell me that God did not create everything included homosexual?
When Adam and Eve were sinless, was evil there?

Isaiah 45:6-7 - Did God create evil? The word, "evil" is not used in the sense of sin, but of trouble; "evil" is the lack of peace.

To be homosexual is to choose SIN because homosexuality is a sin. Therefore God did NOT create homosexuality. The Bible teaches that God feds up with homosexuals.
 
CyberRed said:
Satan created evil. He loves evil. He was once a beautiful angel God created him and, then he disobeyed God for wantin' to be God. Satan was "Lucifer"... but, then he was kicked out of Heaven, his name changed to "Satan". He created sins, not God.
Satan loves war. He loves to see people suffer. There are many things that Satan don't want people to know about God. Satan wants people to believe in lie. Sad, isn't it ? Satan is very extremely jealous over Jesus, because God favors Him ( Jesus ).
Good point! :D
 
God created the angels (including Lucifer/Satan) perfect, and with free will. Lucifer decided to set himself above God. That was was Lucifer's evil sin.

God created the material universe and Man perfect. Man (Adam) and (Woman) Eve freely decided to disobey God and obey Satan when they ate the fruit of the forbidden tree. They themselves brought evil sin to the earth and mankind. That sin distorted (changed) the perfection of the earth. That began the change of perfect climate, soil, plants, and water, to harsher conditions. That sin changed the peaceful fellowship of animals to predator vs. prey. That sin changed Man and Woman (and their descendants) from perfect (in spirit, soul, and body) to imperfect. Their bodies began to deteriorate and weaken, and each generation became worse. As each generation declined, life spans shortened, disease spread, birth defects increased, and moral perversions increased.

Bottom line: God created Man and Woman perfect as individuals, and perfect as a couple for each other. God did not create homosexuals. Homosexuality was a result of the decline of humanity as a consequence of sin, as it passed down to each generation. Sin effects the spirit, soul, and body of individuals, and it effects families, society, and nations. Sin even effects the natural world of environment and animal life. That is why God hates sin so much. Sin destroys God's perfect world.

As the following verses show, God created His world as perfect, and "it was good":

Genesis 1: 1 - 31

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good. 11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, 18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. 19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. 21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth. 23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. 30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
 
This thread is broke record debating issues Judge not, that ye be not judge.
2k over view'n here..

con vs pro pretty quite good debating but seems getting little heat'n...
 
Well thank you Cookie Monster....... However, I believe it also says that the reason Sodom and Gommerah were destroyed wasn't b/c of the homosexual activity of it's inhabitants....it was b/c of inhospitality!
Reba,
is sin and evil INGRAINED or is it a choice? I know of SO MANY GLBers who would totally change if they could....You have NO IDEA of the pain countless souls have gone through b/c of the insistution by some churches that being gay is a sin, and they have failed God. I know of MANY folks who have spent YEARS on their knees, begging God to change them....to take their feelings away....Hey, it's so strong that even I have dealt with it...... and I'm from a family that is wicked libral and already had four gay members (two of my uncles)
 
deafdyke said:
Reba,
is sin and evil INGRAINED or is it a choice?
The sin nature (tendency) is passed down in the fathers' genes, so it is "engrained." The actual commiting (doing) of sins is a choice.

I know of SO MANY GLBers who would totally change if they could....
It is a totally sad situation. As you state, many want to change but they are not supported enough by family, friends, society, or church to make the change. It is a real shame that they cannot get the healing that they seek.

You have NO IDEA of the pain countless souls have gone through b/c of the insistution by some churches that being gay is a sin, and they have failed God. I know of MANY folks who have spent YEARS on their knees, begging God to change them....to take their feelings away....
You are right. I cannot know another person's pain. I would be lying if I just said that I did. It is very true that many "Christian" people and churches have not shown love and support for people of the homosexual community who seek to escape.

The truth is, we are all sinners. The first step for freedom from sin is to name and confess that sin to Jesus. Turning away from a sin that is long time and deep is not easy. It is a long struggle of pain, with ups and downs. But it is possible. There is hope.
 
Reba said:
The truth is, we are all sinners.

We're sinners one way or another, regardless of what we've done. It doesn't matter whether you're GLBT, racist, homophobic, rapists or even murderers. We all face the same person that judges us when we pass on.
 
CyberRed said:
Satan created evil. He loves evil. He was once a beautiful angel God created him and, then he disobeyed God for wantin' to be God. Satan was "Lucifer"... but, then he was kicked out of Heaven, his name changed to "Satan". He created sins, not God.
Satan loves war. He loves to see people suffer. There are many things that Satan don't want people to know about God. Satan wants people to believe in lie. Sad, isn't it ? Satan is very extremely jealous over Jesus, because God favors Him ( Jesus ).
Whoa! wait minute, You are very controversy yourself own saying, which is not origin from scripture.. Scripture never told the world's million people that Satan is very extremely jealous.. where the F-ing heck you get that damn idea?

"God is a jealous God" in Scripture of Exodus 20v5 , Deuteronomy 4v24 on and on.. See that a jealous God is not Satan.. you better carefully read scriputre before you put what you saying in this public

Scripture told me that God sent evil spirits trouble others.. no find where the words in scripture: "Satan sent evil spirits trouble others".. No wonder you never pay attetion what scripture of
: "Mattew 12: 26-27"
 
ckfarbes said:
Whoa! wait minute, You are very controversy yourself own saying, which is not origin from scripture.. Scripture never told the world's million people that Satan is very extremely jealous.. where the F-ing heck you get that damn idea?

"God is a jealous God" in Scripture of Exodus 20v5 , Deuteronomy 4v24 on and on.. See that a jealous God is not Satan.. you better carefully read scriputre before you put what you saying in this public

Scripture told me that God sent evil spirits trouble others.. no find where the words in scripture: "Satan sent evil spirits trouble others".. No wonder you never pay attetion what scripture of

Exodus 20:5 "Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me..."

See above what God says ? That's another issue. I am NOT talkin' about worshippin'/servin' other gods. I am talkin' about Satan and his evil sins....and, how he wants to take over God's Power to control the whole universe and this earth (people and everythin'). Satan wants to be God, but he forgot that God created him, not Satan created God. And, yes Satan is very extremely jealous over Jesus, because Jesus has the Power and control all these things. Satan tempted Jesus 3 times in the New Testament. Satan was hopin' that Jesus will fall for Satan's deception, but Jesus refused and still followed His Father ( God ).
You need to study the bible more and understand what it is all about. :)
 
for one thing i agree we have no right to judge for its not our place to do so we are just servant of god just like those who are judged i find absolutely no reason to judge others even if i did then i m wrong for human shouldnt judge other human i never seen animals judge other animals why cant we be same? arent the judging s the reason most war start out?
 
As you state, many want to change but they are not supported enough by family, friends, society, or church to make the change. It is a real shame that they cannot get the healing that they seek.
That's a very typical conservative Christian remark. "It's just b/c of a lack of support" WRONG! Reba.....open your mind and read the experiances of Christians who discovered they were gay. MANY of them wore out the knees on their pants praying for God to cure them. If it was a matter of support from the family or church, then people like Phillis Schafly, Cheney, and that Concerned Women for America person, would never have produced GLB offspring. If it was a matter of going into church based programs which claim to produce ex-gays......(and those things are intensive)...then we wouldn't have ex-ex gay movements.
You have NO IDEA whatsoever, what we GLBers have gone through!
Many of them feel like they've failed God b/c they happened to fall in love with a person who just happens to have an innie or an outie!
God doesn't judge on skin color....He doesn't get all het up about interracial marriage (except according to Chrisitan Idenity or some ultra ultra conservative churches) Why would He condemn my feelings for Maureen, or Gale or any of the other girls I've had feelings for?
I have a LOT more to say but, I'm gonna be late for class.
I know b/c my first girlfriend went through that......She loved me very much, but was just so damn confused about
 
darkflare83 said:
for one thing i agree we have no right to judge for its not our place to do so we are just servant of god just like those who are judged i find absolutely no reason to judge others even if i did then i m wrong for human shouldnt judge other human i never seen animals judge other animals why cant we be same? arent the judging s the reason most war start out?


You got a good point there, :) I do agree that it is wrong to judge anyone, based on their sins because we don't know their situation to know what's in their heart or mind. Jesus taught us all to love each other, and forgive those who sins, even ourselves. "But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins" (Matthew 6:15). If you forgive others, all hatred and bitterness will disappear. If you want to follow Satan ways, persuading us not to forgive anyone, You are going to still have all hatred and bitterness in your heart. So, Don't judge then you wouldn't be judge, and forgive others. ;)


Like CookieMonster had mention,
"We're sinners one way or another, regardless of what we've done. It doesn't matter whether you're GLBT, racist, homophobic, rapists or even murderers. We all face the same person that judges us when we pass on."
That's is so true. :thumb:
 
do agree that it is wrong to judge anyone, based on their sins because we don't know their situation to know what's in their heart or mind.
Yes, and we don't know God's real view on this!!!! The very fact that there is debate on this is PROOF, that we don't know God's true mind on this issue! Nobody is trying to make evil things good things...they are just trying to argue that NOBODY but God knows whether or not its a sin.
I mean the proscription on homosexuality isn't universal among all the religions of the world! Even Christian churches debate about it!
Forty years ago they were probaly doing the same thing WE'RE doing, except in THAT case they were debating about Bibilcal interpretations of the impact on civil rights. There are STILL some old school folks who believe the old teachings, and not just folks who almost surely belong in the nuthouse (like the Christian Identiy folks)I was reading stormfront, (not gonna link to it since I don't want scary trolls over here) and there was an old skool Baptist type ranting and raving about how "libreal" the Baptist church has become!
Cheri, good point....A Christian would probaly condemn someone for having an abortion...b/c abortion "always" equals killing a baby....Not nessarily.....An abortion is the premature ENDING of a pregnancy....Therefore, abortions can be done on babies who have died inutereo...
 
deafdyke said:
Cheri, good point....A Christian would probaly condemn someone for having an abortion...b/c abortion "always" equals killing a baby....Not nessarily.....An abortion is the premature ENDING of a pregnancy....Therefore, abortions can be done on babies who have died inutereo...

Yes, so true beside it's way impossible to banned Abortion too, Anyone will find ways to get it done. It would kill more people. And what's more is if you heard of Abortion bombing, and killing of Abortion doctors? Christians complain that Abortion is killing a living life, What about them killing a doctor is that a living life? They call themselves Pro-lifers, but they are killing abortion doctors, and nurses at the abortion clinics and bombing buildings with people inside.:(

Another thing I was discussing this to my hearing sister last night I was asking her why some Christians are so judgment? She says they always are and she doesn't like it either. In facts my whole family are Christians and they don't even talk that way, They don't judge others for their sins. My family says they believe that Christians should be loving all, giving and caring not judging. :thumb: (And that makes them good Christians)

Just my two cents. ;)
 
First of all, stop abusing with this quote, "You are judging us!" That is wrong for you to use against me. I am not here to judge you and I don't have any power to judge you. I am here to preach you from the Bible, therefore the Bible says something that is forbid then I have to preach you to not do whatever Bible forbids. But you are saying that I am judging you and you need to remember that and where I got the information from and it came from the Bible. The Bible is written by Holy Spirit and that means it came from Lord. Lord already judged you before you were born therefore you cannot say I am judging you. You can say, "Lord stop judging me!" not "You are judging me!" Thank you very much.
 
Crazymanw00t said:
First of all, stop abusing with this quote, "You are judging us!" That is wrong for you to use against me. I am not here to judge you and I don't have any power to judge you. I am here to preach you from the Bible, therefore the Bible says something that is forbid then I have to preach you to not do whatever Bible forbids. But you are saying that I am judging you and you need to remember that and where I got the information from and it came from the Bible. The Bible is written by Holy Spirit and that means it came from Lord. Lord already judged you before you were born therefore you cannot say I am judging you. You can say, "Lord stop judging me!" not "You are judging me!" Thank you very much.

That's interesting, I didn't know the Lord said "They are just f**king others for their own self-ish sexual pleasure" Didn't you or not said that? therefore you claim that everything you said was from the bible? Didn't you just lied? :mrgreen:
 
Cheri said:
That's interesting, I didn't know the Lord said "They are just f**king others for their own self-ish sexual pleasure" Didn't you or not said that? therefore you claim that everything you said was from the bible? Didn't you just lied? :mrgreen:

Hey why are you using Jesus Christ's name in vain? I never said Lord or God said that quote. The point is that God forbids homosexual life or their marriage or their pleasure life with the same sex. Therefore I explains why the homosexual is out there with the quote. It is fact and clearly.
 
Crazymanw00t said:
Hey why are you using Jesus Christ's name in vain? I never said Lord or God said that quote. The point is that God forbids homosexual life or their marriage or their pleasure life with the same sex. Therefore I explains why the homosexual is out there with the quote. It is fact and clearly.


I am using Jesus's name in vain? Re-read your post again Crazyman, even better let me point it out to you, so you don't get so confused, which you already are.

I am here to preach you from the Bible, therefore the Bible says something that is forbid then I have to preach you to not do whatever Bible forbids. But you are saying that I am judging you and you need to remember that and where I got the information from and it came from the Bible.


Now, after reading your post, I add a statement that you used before in another thread, to point out what you said about getting information from the bible, as far as I know Jesus would never say those words as such you would, so really you did not get that information from the bible. That's my point. :thumb:
 
Anyone will find ways to get it done. It would kill more people. And what's more is if you heard of Abortion bombing, and killing of Abortion doctors? Christians complain that Abortion is killing a living life
Yeah, it's just a nessary evil. Against abortion? Good......Don't have one, and fight for better birth control and better social justice issues.
 
Crazyman.....You ARE judging us! Can't you read? The VERY FACT that there is debate on whether or not homosexuality is a sin, is PROOF that it's not as clear cut as you believe God has it.
YOUR God may condemn me as a sinner.....BUT MY GOD doesn't! My God/Creator/Everpresent Being DOES NOT judge me. Hey, according to some people......b/c I'm a woman I'm not allowed to speak out in church. That would be a SIN according to THEIR interpretation of the Bible. Yet, most mainline Christians don't believe it's a sin.
Did you know that the term homosexuality wasn't even coined until recently?
Many Biblcal scholars think that the sex condemned in the Bible was akin to sex club stuff....you know random hedonistic stuff, or about sexual abuse in Ancient Greece......
Stop judging us....stop preaching to us.....Most of us have heard it all before. We live in a country that is majority Christian after all.....and there are tons of people roaming around and performing street missionary services!
What makes YOUR version of the Bible correct? Nobody but God knows. Man cannot truely know the power that is God. Man is imperfect! (the Bible even says so!)
 
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