How did you learn ASL?

Bottesini said:
Like me!! I have no idea what you guys just said. :shock:
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Let me break it down for you:

When the brain processes visual information, it processes it time and spatially oriented. Like looking at a painting. You see the time of day, and the points closest to you and most important first. That is the way syntax in ASL is arranged.

When the brain processes auditory information, it does it in a linear way. Like saying, The boy climbed the tree.

If you were going to say the same thing in ASL, or if you were going to paint a picture, the tree would come first, because without the tree, the boy wouldn't be doing anything.

Is that better, or more confusing?
 
Bottesini said:
Like me!! I have no idea what you guys just said. :shock:
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Simply put...ASL is not meant to be taken into the spoken form. Can u imagine a deaf person taking ASL and changing it into a spoken language. that's what people did with English..changing it from a spoken language into a signed language but borrow ASL signs to change the syntax (structure). If people tried to change the syntax of English to follow ASL, English wouldnt make any sense anymore. It isnt as cut and dried with languages. One couldnt change the syntax of Spanish to follow English synax along with any other languages.
 
jillio said:
Let me break it down for you:

When the brain processes visual information, it processes it time and spatially oriented. Like looking at a painting. You see the time of day, and the points closest to you and most important first. That is the way syntax in ASL is arranged.

When the brain processes auditory information, it does it in a linear way. Like saying, The boy climbed the tree.

If you were going to say the same thing in ASL, or if you were going to paint a picture, the tree would come first, because without the tree, the boy wouldn't be doing anything.

Is that better, or more confusing?
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shel90 said:
Simply put...ASL is not meant to be taken into the spoken form. Can u imagine a deaf person taking ASL and changing it into a spoken language. that's what people did with English..changing it from a spoken language into a signed language but borrow ASL signs to change the syntax (structure). If people tried to change the syntax of English to follow ASL, English wouldnt make any sense anymore. It isnt as cut and dried with languages. One couldnt change the syntax of Spanish to follow English synax along with any other languages.
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You are both going way over my head, but now I think I know you are talking about the order the languages go in, and it isn't really anything to do with lines.

The lines are metaphorical.
 
Bottesini said:
You are both going way over my head, but now I think I know you are talking about the order the languages go in, and it isn't really anything to do with lines.

The lines are metaphorical.
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Let me put it this way...it is general knowledge (from my understanding) that it is commen sense not to change spoken English to follow French syntax (structure) and vice versa and I dont believe that there were any attempt to do that. People in general respected the fact that French has its own grammatical rules and structure so they knew if one wants to learn French, they must learn the language as it is rather than changing it to meet English's rules and structure but yet, people do it with ASL. My question is ...why? What makes that ok? What makes people think that it will really make full sense to children like spoken English and signed ASL does? (not asking you, Botts, but in general)
 
Bottesini said:
You are both going way over my head, but now I think I know you are talking about the order the languages go in, and it isn't really anything to do with lines.

The lines are metaphorical.
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Yes, exactly. Linear just refers to the way that events are sequenced according to the syntax of the language.
 
shel90 said:
Let me put it this way...it is general knowledge (from my understanding) that it is commen sense not to change spoken English to follow French syntax (structure) and vice versa and I dont believe that there were any attempt to do that. People in general respected the fact that French has its own grammatical rules and structure so they knew if one wants to learn French, they must learn the language as it is rather than changing it to meet English's rules and structure but yet, people do it with ASL. My question is ...why? What makes that ok? What makes people think that it will really make full sense to children like spoken English and signed ASL does? (not asking you, Botts, but in general)
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Yes. And if you speak French with an English syntax, the French speaker will have trouble getting meaning from what you are saying. And when you put ASL into an English syntax, the deaf person has difficulty deriving proper meaning.
 
jillio said:
Personally, I don't think anyone is wired to speak and sign at the same time. At least not to do so and keep the syntax and grammar of both languages correct. That is my objection to SimCom. Both languages suffer, and when used with kids, they don't get good models of either English or ASL.
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I'd agree, any more than someone can speak one language and write grammatically in another; and sign language uses space in a way that doesn't correspond to words. SimCom is good for keeping people from being shut out of a conversation but one language or the other is going to predominate - either English with diminished ASL or ASL with diminished English.
 
kipourgos said:
I'd agree, any more than someone can speak one language and write grammatically in another; and sign language uses space in a way that doesn't correspond to words. SimCom is good for keeping people from being shut out of a conversation but one language or the other is going to predominate - either English with diminished ASL or ASL with diminished English.
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I agree..SimCom can be good for social setting with people who already have a strong first language but not for children who are acquiring language or in the educational setting.
 
shel90 said:
Let me put it this way...it is general knowledge (from my understanding) that it is commen sense not to change spoken English to follow French syntax (structure) and vice versa and I dont believe that there were any attempt to do that. People in general respected the fact that French has its own grammatical rules and structure so they knew if one wants to learn French, they must learn the language as it is rather than changing it to meet English's rules and structure but yet, people do it with ASL. My question is ...why? What makes that ok? What makes people think that it will really make full sense to children like spoken English and signed ASL does? (not asking you, Botts, but in general)
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jillio said:
Yes, exactly. Linear just refers to the way that events are sequenced according to the syntax of the language.
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Thanks to both of you, I think I now understand. The fact that in the interim, I ate dinner probably helped my brain along. :)
 
Bottesini said:
Thanks to both of you, I think I now understand. The fact that in the interim, I ate dinner probably helped my brain along. :)
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I had every confidence that you would get it, if we just explained in a way that corresponded to your learning style. And food always helps with concentration! ;)
 
jillio said:
Exactly. Aural languages are processed in the brain in a linear manner, signed languages are processed in a time oriented and spatial manner. That is exactly why their syntaxes differ. The syntax is in line with the way the mode of language is processed.
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But I do not believe it is necessary, or right, or even natural.

Look at children: They use every means at their disposal to convey meaning: Voice (both words and non-words), tone of voice, facial expression, body language, and what ever gestures such as iconic or pointing, they can come up with.

To me sitting in a chair using a well modulated voice and little or no gestures is down right unnatural.

Why is it considered "civilized" to limit your communication abilities to the absolute minimum?
 
Berry said:
But I do not believe it is necessary, or right, or even natural.

Look at children: They use every means at their disposal to convey meaning: Voice (both words and non-words), tone of voice, facial expression, body language, and what ever gestures such as iconic or pointing, they can come up with.

To me sitting in a chair using a well modulated voice and little or no gestures is down right unnatural.

Why is it considered "civilized" to limit your communication abilities to the absolute minimum?
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I agree. It isn't natural. And yes, children naturally use a very kinesthic means to convey their wants and needs. ASL capitalizes on their natural tendency to use kinesthetic means.

It has also been shown in research that when body language is contradictory to the spoken message given, we naturally use the visual (body language) to give true meaning to the message. It will override the aural information.
 
I remember as child being extremely gestural as I was non-verbal for longer than what is allegedly considered "average" among many kids. I had hard time being understood throughout elementary school and I remember getting pretty frustrated about it. I have always been primarily visual-kinesthetic person, I remember touching things a lot. And I mix up Left and Right so my natural inclination is to point. Body language skills are also very important in dog training and in canine communication and I use that as much as or more than verbal....it was one of the things previous supervisor at doggy daycare <off-schedule thread> complained about - didn't talk enough.
 
SEE: Early 2000

ASL/PSE: early 2008

ASL: 2009

90% fluent now
 
JClarke said:
SEE: Early 2000

ASL/PSE: early 2008

ASL: 2009

90% fluent now
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Geez, you're a fast learner. I started learning ASL/PSE in 2007. I don't believe i'm even 50% fluent. :dunno:

Then again, I understand 100% of what you say in your vlogs...
 
society's_child said:
Geez, you're a fast learner. I started learning ASL/PSE in 2007. I don't believe i'm even 50% fluent. :dunno:

Then again, I understand 100% of what you say in your vlogs...
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I study all the time. Even I have an app on my iPhone whenever I get bored, I do the quiz to keep my brain sane
 
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