Good eye opening article.....

[Heath]

Okay Cheri good question and good debate, Let you know what the liberals do not want you to know is that most of the gun incidients that happened was from illegal gun theft. The law abiding gun owners who fill out a form and buys a gun from the gun store for self defense at home to protect the family or to go hunting for wildlife game rarely break the law or are criminals. If you do not like guns then that is your right and you should not take that right away from millions of Americans especially Deaf Americans or the women or any law abiding American citizen who needs to defend their lives. What if you had a bad situation? I pray you never have a bad situation where gun protection was really needed and you just voted the gun rights out of millions and including YOUR hands and now the criminals are free to commit a crime against your will. Not only that We the people means we are a nation .... speaking of military stragetry if God forbid , the US military can't be everywhere at once then the citizen soldiers, that is us, it is written right there in the US Constitution that we can defend ourselves and help the US Military to win the battle, Even the US Military has repeatedly said NO!!! to gun control measures designed to muzzle law abiding American citizen gun owners and let the criminals roam free with guns in wicked hands and not in the right hands to save innocent lives.

The liberal media and liberal leaders have attacked and waged a vicious campigan against President Bush on all fronts. If you were the bad guys here and you had WMD's do you think you would keep WMD's inside your country so that the US and Allied Forces can seize your WMD's , No way ... what would you do? Hide it next door to Syria and Iran which incidientally are allowing terrorists across the borders into Iraq by the busloads with free access and the United Nations is manning the border checkpoints .... Just wait until the US goes into Syria or Iran .... You also have to be very suspicious of Iran saying they would attack Israel on the world stage.... they say they have a missile program .... you know what I think really is going on? They have the WMD's with the Iranians. I think President Bush was caught off guard on 9/11 when he was visiting a Florida elementary school from what I understand and did not want to cause panic to the children and calmly got up then was busy formulating a response with the White House team that day.... It was a bad day for all of us including President Bush. From what I also understand Farinhenit 9/11 by Michael Moore, you know what? FYI Alots of Americans obivously know that movie is nothing but a pack of lies. I mean why should I watch or buy a liar's movie especially a liberal one to even begin with.

Abortion has and will always be a fierecely debated issue. You can not leave God out of it because God is the one who created all of us !!!!

 

[apathrev]

:roll:

You know what you get when you mix politics and religion. You get people like Pat Robertson. You get people like Jerry Falwell.

 

[Cheri]

I think President Bush was caught off guard on 9/11 when he was visiting a Florida elementary school from what I understand and did not want to cause panic to the children and calmly got up then was busy formulating a response with the White House team that day.... It was a bad day for all of us including President Bush. From what I also understand Farinhenit 9/11 by Michael Moore, you know what? FYI Alots of Americans obivously know that movie is nothing but a pack of lies. I mean why should I watch or buy a liar's movie especially a liberal one to even begin with.

Caught off guard? That's very disturbing, He is the president of the United States, Children know that he has a big job and he represent all of American people. How can you say he had to stay calm? He wouldn't stay calm if he knew he has a family member in the twin towers. He made a bad move and I wasn't happy with Bush's job performance. He knew about the threats from Osama bin Laden and ignored it. Osama is having a good laugh at the fact that Bush screwed up the whole plan on getting justice for Sept. 11th, We fought a war that has nothing to do with us. And one more thing, I never watched Farinhenit 9/11. I read the news paper and watched the news and I found that sickness in the part how Bush handled Sept. 11th.

If you do not like guns then that is your right and you should not take that right away from millions of Americans especially Deaf Americans or the women or any law abiding American citizen who needs to defend their lives.

You got a point there, but I have dislike guns for a long time, and hated them with passion. And People find ways to purchase guns off the street, How can you prevent that from happening? You can't.

 

[Reba]

...Now u telling me it is sin not to self defense against bad man? What about Jesus Christ, He did not protected Himself from being arrested and being killed on the cross? He would have hide or stay away from the area but He did not.

That was because He knew that He must die in order to save all the other people in the world.

There are times that people must sacrifice themselves to save other people, instead of saving themselves. That doesn't mean that self-defense is wrong. It just means that sometimes self-sacrifice is more important than self-defense.

As for terroists attack on 9/11, Bush allowed it happened. He would have prevent it but did not. Muslims and Christians have been war with eachother for hundred years. Nothing new here.

What proof do you have that Bush "allowed" 9/11 to happen? Also, if you don't believe in self-defense thru force, how would you expect Bush to stop the 9/11 attacks if he had known about them? It doesn't make sense.

Guns kill people whether they are good or bad people.

No, it is the people who fire the guns that kill the people.

I do not like guns for one I would have kill u with it if I do not have any control over my emotions. I know myself too well. I do not hunt animals. I love animals. They give me joy.

No problem. No one forces you to get a gun or use a gun. If you don't want one, don't get one.

 

[Reba]

I agree with this... as long as they don't preach it to me.
You want to pray? Fine. Just don't go reciting Bible verses or quoting God in my face.

Ever hear of free speech? As long as someone is not doing the "preaching" on your private property, or disrupting other people or events, or causing a traffic hazard, then praying and reciting Bible verses is allowed. That doesn't mean they should preach in a loud annoying way in someone's face (that isn't wise); I am just saying it is permissable.

 

[Reba]

...I don't like guns and I would like to see guns banned, I have seen guns get in the hands of the wrong people, What about criminals for example carried guns while robbing the convenience store, bank and gas stations? So they can get away with money and kill people who witness him. What about people who has some angry manangerment issue, killing someone over a porker game or anything else? I am tired of seeing people getting kill with guns. Enough is enough. I would like to see guns banned from United States.

I would like to see guns banned from criminals. Criminals should be severly prosecuted for using guns during the commission of a crime. The laws must be enforced.

I see nothing wrong with law-abiding citizens owning guns. The U.S. Constitution protects that right.

I don't want my guns banned. Why should I give up my guns for the criminals?

Many people drive drunk and kill people. Do you think everyone should give up their cars just because some people break the law?

 

[pek1]

1. I am not sure if you understand what a liberal is. Being liberal means you...

2. On 9/11 3,000 lives on that plane plus 50,000 and another 50,000 in the World Trade Centers perished.

3. On the issue of sexual abuse, the girl should continue with the 9 months of pregnancy then give the baby away for adoption. This way her conscience is clean and she did not kill that baby.

4. On the issue of unwanted pregnancy.... continue with 9 months pregnancy then if guy and the girl does not want the baby or are unable to afford a baby then after discussing it over with their parents and still can not financially support the baby.

5. Bush , he will give an account to God if he really did not know then ok but if he knew it was coming then that is a different story.

6. Let you know what the liberals do not want you to know is that most of the gun incidents that happened was from illegal gun theft.

7. It is written right there in the US Constitution that we can defend ourselves and help the US Military to win the battle.

8. The liberal media and liberal leaders have attacked and waged a vicious campigan against President Bush on all fronts.

9. While Conservatives WILL NEVER ALLOW THAT TO HAPPEN and keep innocent people's guns in their hands.

Heath,

I have numbered the above and will answer according to the order. Sorry about this being so long.

1. Link to this site for the proper definition of a liberal. http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/liberal

2. Are we reading the same history, Heath? Link to this site. http://www.september11victims.com/september11victims/ 50,000 people (your words) seems like an awful lot of lives. Are you sure?

3. "Girls," technically, cannot get pregnant. I presume you know this, if not, there are many books out there to explain this. However, any woman on the forums will tell you that only women can get pregnant, girls can't.

4. What makes you think the female is a juvenile? Are you for real, asking this and implying we live in a world such as "Ozzie and Harriet"?

5. He knew. Quit making excuses for him.

6. Do you have proof of this? If so, show us instead of popping your chops. The burden of proof falls back to you, Heath.

7. See this website. http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.billofrights.html See two of them that appear to be connected? Look at Amendments 2 and 4.

8. Go back to that same website, http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.billofrights.html and note the First Amendment. Also, in reality, the "liberalness" of the media and press is governed by each outlets owner (s) and, if they're conservative, their paper or station, if they're liberal, their paper or station will be.

9. Refer back to #1 and look at the full definition of "liberal."

Heath, really, a lot of what you state isn't anything more than rhetorical nonsense if you can't back up what you say. No wonder Christians are made fun of, you're making us look bad.

By the way, take a look at history in 1973 and tell me which party had their president in the White House. 1973 is the year that Roe v. Wade came into being and abortion was officially legalized. Also, note what the attitudes of Christians were then. I remember it VERY well, as if it was last week. "Christians shouldn't be in politics because it's dirty." That, Heath, was the attitude.

As for history, Heath, the one, sure-fire way of finding out which side is telling the truth is looking at the dateline, which shows when a particular even took place and who the primary writer (s) was/were. I'm also assuming you know information about the Civil War, correct? Tell me, what actually happened? Who could have won? I'm not a southerner, but, take a look at the movie, "Gods and Generals." Lastly, remember hearing about the "Trail of Tears" at that same time? It involved the Native Americans who were forced from their land. I never learned about it until a year ago...that, my friend, is what YOUR conservative government didn't want anyone to know about and prohibited it from being taught in schools.

The People Rest, Your Honor.

 

[Cheri]

I see nothing wrong with law-abiding citizens owning guns. The U.S. Constitution protects that right.

I don't want my guns banned. Why should I give up my guns for the criminals?

You have your opinion and I have mine that doesn't make mine wrong.

Many people drive drunk and kill people. Do you think everyone should give up their cars just because some people break the law?

Give up their cars? People who drive drunk were drinking so I would say banned alcohol then we wouldn't have this issue.

 

[jazzy]

That was because He knew that He must die in order to save all the other people in the world.

There are times that people must sacrifice themselves to save other people, instead of saving themselves. That doesn't mean that self-defense is wrong. It just means that sometimes self-sacrifice is more important than self-defense.

do u agree with heath when he said it is sin if you do not use self defense? What about those people who would die for Jesus Christ if they asked by gunman, "Are you Christian"? remember this girl from columbine high school when a young boy asked her a question about it and she said yes so he shot her and killed her.

What proof do you have that Bush "allowed" 9/11 to happen? Also, if you don't believe in self-defense thru force, how would you expect Bush to stop the 9/11 attacks if he had known about them? It doesn't make sense.

Bush already knew about the plot a month before 9/11. He would have prevent it but did not. It was on news awhile ago. U know that already.

No, it is the people who fire the guns that kill the people.

Okay I won't use adject words, just people.

No problem. No one forces you to get a gun or use a gun. If you don't want one, don't get one.

My husband has guns, not me. I won't let him have them in my house, he has to hide them somewhere. He almost killed a boy with his gun once. when this young boy tried to steal a bike from our yard one time. I saw in his eyes, never again. Angry can lead to cloud judgement. I do not trust u or anyone with the guns. My husband could have gone to jail for shoot this young boy. he and rest of American people have same idea and belief. Not me.

 

[Reba]

... Lastly, remember hearing about the "Trail of Tears" at that same time? It involved the Native Americans who were forced from their land. I never learned about it until a year ago...that, my friend, is what YOUR conservative government didn't want anyone to know about and prohibited it from being taught in schools...

I don't understand why you didn't know about the "Trail of Tears" until a year ago. I attended public high school 1965-69, and we studied that. It wasn't a prohibited subject. We also studied the Civil War, slavery, and the Civil Rights struggle (it was a current event then). None of those subjects was prohibited.

My history teacher played Buffy Sainte-Marie's songs about the Indians in class. I don't think this was hiding anything:

My country 'tis of thy people you're dying
Buffy Sainte-Marie (1966)

Now that your big eyes have finally opened,
Now that you're wondering how must they feel,
Meaning them that you've chased across America's movie screens.
Now that you're wondering how can it be real
That the ones you've called colorful, noble and proud
In your school propaganda
They starve in their splendor
You've asked for my comment, I simply will render:

My country 'tis of thy people you're dying.

Now that the long houses breed superstition
You force us to send our toddlers away
To your schools where they're taught to despise their traditions.
You forbid them their languages, then further say
That American history really began
When Columbus set sail out of Europe, then stress
That the nation of leeches that conquered this land
Are the biggest and bravest and boldest and best.
And yet where in your history books is the tale
Of the genocide basic to this country's birth,
Of the preachers who lied, how the Bill of Rights failed,
How a nation of patriots returned to their earth?
And where will it tell of the Liberty Bell
As it rang with a thud
O'er the tinsel of mud,
And of brave Uncle Sam in Alaska this year?

My country 'tis of thy people you're dying.
Hear how the bargain was made for the West:
With her shivering children in zero degrees,
Blankets for your land, so the treaties attest,
Oh well, blankets for land is a bargain indeed,
And the blankets were those Uncle Sam had collected
From smallpox-diseased dying soldiers that day.
And the tribes were wiped out and the history books censored,
A hundred years of your statesmen have felt it's better this way.
And yet a few of the conquered have somehow survived,
Their blood runs the redder though genes have paled.
From the Grand Canyon's caverns to Craven Red Hills
The wounded, the losers, the rod sings their tale.
From Los Angeles County to upstate New York
The white nation fattens while others grow lean;
Oh the tricked and evicted they know what I mean.

My country 'tis of thy people you're dying.

The past it just crumbled, the future just threatens;
Our life blood shut up in your chemical tanks.
And now here you come, bill of sale in your hands
And surprise in your eyes that we're lacking in thanks
For the blessings of civilization you've brought us,
The lessons you've taught us, the ruin you've wrought us --
Oh see what our trust in America's brought us.

My country 'tis of thy people you're dying.

Now that the pride of the sires receives charity,
Now that we're harmless and safe behind laws,
Now that my life's to be known as your heritage,
Now that even the graves have been robbed,
Now that our own chosen way is a novelty --
Hands on our hearts we salute you your victory,
Choke on your blue white and scarlet hypocrisy
Pitying the blindness that you've never seen
That the eagles of war whose wings lent you glory
They were never no more than carrion crows,
Pushed the wrens from their nest, stow their eggs, changed their story;
The mockingbird sings it, it's all that she knows.
Oh what can I do say a powerless few
With a lump in your throat and a tear in your eye
Can't you see that our poverty's profiting you.

My country 'tis of thy people you're dying.

 

[Reba]

You have your opinion and I have mine that doesn't make mine wrong.

I didn't say that you can't have your opinion. I just don't want your opinion to become a law that would prohibit my guns. If you don't want guns for yourself, that is fine. All I ask is that you let me keep mine.

Give up their cars? People who drive drunk were drinking so I would say banned alcohol then we wouldn't have this issue.

That is my point. The object (gun or car) doesn't kill people; it is the person controlling the object that kills people. We don't need to ban guns; we need to ban the criminals and crazies from getting guns.

 

[pek1]

Reba,

I don't recall studying the Civil War, as I'm in Minnesota and that was a closed case and settle and old news. In fifth grade, which is all I can remember, we had Watergate and Tricky Dick almost getting himself impeached.

 

[Cheri]

I didn't say that you can't have your opinion. I just don't want your opinion to become a law that would prohibit my guns. If you don't want guns for yourself, that is fine. All I ask is that you let me keep mine.



That is my point. The object (gun or car) doesn't kill people; it is the person controlling the object that kills people. We don't need to ban guns; we need to ban the criminals and crazies from getting guns.

I am suppose to care about your guns? That's funny Reba, I don't care about anyone's guns. Beside it takes a lot to change the law.

How are we suppose to know who are the crazies out there? Anyone can be crazy, We never know who's crazy until it happened. Why wait?

 

[RedFox]

Yes, and this is the United States of America, a country
founded on Christian principles. According to our very
own phone book, Christian churches outnumber all others
better than 200-to-1. So what would you expect-somebody
chanting Hare Krishna?

Just because Christian churches outnumber others doesn't mean other religions and the nonreligous should be ignored or considered to be all anti-Christian.
I also found this. The United States, when the Founding Fathers were still alive, approved a treaty with a Muslim country in Africa that included this:

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

This was in the early 1800s, long before the terrorism stuff.
Here, it says that Thomas Jefferson was a deist.
The phrase "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" being in the First Amendment shows that they thought it was important that Congress shouldn't favor or prohibt religious things.

Christians are just sick and tired of turning the other
cheek while our courts strip us of all our rights. Our
parents and grandparents taught us to pray before
eating; to pray before we go to sleep.

Our Bible tells us to pray without ceasing. Now a
handful of people and their lawyers are telling us
to cease praying.

We're not trying to take away all of your rights by stopping you from ever praying. What we'd like is neutrality at public places like schools without everybody being forced to do a prayer. We'll let you do it if you don't make everybody else do it.

The silent majority has been silent too long. It's time we
let that one or two who scream loud enough to be heard
.... that the vast majority don't care what they want. It
is time the majority rules! It's time we tell them, you don't
have to pray; you don't have to say the pledge of allegiance;
you don't have to believe in God or attend services that
honor Him. That is your right, and we will honor your
right. But by golly, you are no longer going to take our
rights away. We are fighting back .
and we WILL WIN!

We're not trying to take away your rights, but to tell you to respect us when we don't do those things. If you say you would, then what's the fuss about?

May 2005 be the year the silent majority is heard
and we put God back as the foundation of our
families and institutions.

Who is "our," Christians? If it is, it's a problem internal to Christians as a group. If it means all Americans, that's pushing the god stuff onto nonbelievers.

 

[Reba]

Reba,
I don't recall studying the Civil War, as I'm in Minnesota and that was a closed case and settle and old news. In fifth grade, which is all I can remember, we had Watergate and Tricky Dick almost getting himself impeached.

:-o The Civil War was a VERY important time in our nation's history, and that includes Minnesota (last time I checked, Minnesota is still part of the United States). I can't believe you never studied American history in school. What kind of a school did you attend?

I hope that since you are a journalism major now you have studied the Civil War and more American history.

Maybe some schools aren't teaching American history because the school day schedule is too full with teaching sex ed, self-esteem, and political correctness.

 

[RedFox]

Maybe some schools aren't teaching American history because the school day schedule is too full with teaching sex ed, self-esteem, and political correctness.

Won't the first two be put in another class, like health class? They'd still have history classes. That leaves political correctness.

 

[pek1]

:-o The Civil War was a VERY important time in our nation's history, and that includes Minnesota (last time I checked, Minnesota is still part of the United States). I can't believe you never studied American history in school. What kind of a school did you attend?

I hope that since you are a journalism major now you have studied the Civil War and more American history.

Maybe some schools aren't teaching American history because the school day schedule is too full with teaching sex ed, self-esteem, and political correctness.

To correct you, Reba, journalism is my minor, not my major. I'm a communication major, journalism minor with a reporting emphasis.

I'm sure I had it, I just don't remember. Do you remember every single thing you learned in school? If so, you're remarkable!

As for sex ed, ahem, I was taught that in 5th grade, the reason I remember this is because my best friend and I were laughing ourselves silly looking at the pictures of the girls. The girls were doing it to us, so we were just reciprocating. Our poor teacher was embarrassed. We were just taught the basics...the differences between the sexes, which is the most important. I never knew, as a guy, where "it" was supposed to go, if you catch my drift...ahem!

As for the rest, that's what the liberal arts are in college, to capitalize on what has already been taught, which I never had a problem with. I do, however, have a problem with Christian people when they state that the USA founded on Christian principles and I compare dates and it shows they are not right. That is not what the founding fathers came over here for...there was much oppression by the Church over there.

 

[Reba]

...I'm sure I had it, I just don't remember. Do you remember every single thing you learned in school? If so, you're remarkable!

The Civil War is pretty major thing to forget. Besides, history class is not the only time and place I heard about the Civil War. It was mentioned in elementary school music class (to help us understand the background to songs such as "Tenting Tonight" and "Battle Hymn of the Republic"), high school English class (to understand literature such as "An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge" and "The Red Badge of Courage"), and journalism (Matthew Brady's combat photography). I'm surprised that you never saw "Gone With the Wind" (not good history, but at least it gives a flavor of the times).

No, I don't remember everything that I learned in school but I certainly remember important events like the wars that our country fought.

...there was much oppression by the Church over there.

Yes, that is why the Pilgrims left Europe and came to a new land.