Gallaudet at risk of losing accreditation

Nesmuth said:
This gets more interesting. I just got word that the sources of these rumors could be Gallaudet related as theyre jealous because their reputation is damaged by the protests.

I also checked with MSA and find that's its their evaluation time.

And this could be the beginning of a Gally vs NTID flame war.

Richard
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Who cares about that crap? At least I know for sure that I don't.

Those students need to learn how to socialize better with the hearing community and not exclude themselves from it. Suppose they did graduate from college and go off to find a real job that suits their interests/majors. There has to be *some* people (co-workers, for instance) from the hearing community that the deafies must learn how to interact with.

Plus, one thing that really bugs me is how the deafies typically use their own deafness as an excuse to not interact with the hearing community. They have this all-high-and-mighty attitude about how they know this ASL crap. Well, they might know ASL, but their English and grammar skills suck as well. Same idea goes for the hearing community; they might know how to speak English, but they suck at ASL unless they work hard to learn how to sign. One skill goes over the other, and unless you work hard to improve that other skill, then your two skills might balance at the equilibrium (that term is related to economics, but you know what I mean).

The problem I see is that the deafies tend to be narrow-minded about all that ASL crap. If they even *try* to be open-minded for once (and twice, thrice, and as many times as possible would be nicer!) then they would realize the potential they have with the hearies, like meeting them, falling in love and getting them to learn ASL--not in a coercing (means forcing) way.
 
SnAzZyStyLe2002 said:
Who cares about that crap? At least I know for sure that I don't.

Those students need to learn how to socialize better with the hearing community and not exclude themselves from it. Suppose they did graduate from college and go off to find a real job that suits their interests/majors. There has to be *some* people (co-workers, for instance) from the hearing community that the deafies must learn how to interact with.

Plus, one thing that really bugs me is how the deafies typically use their own deafness as an excuse to not interact with the hearing community. They have this all-high-and-mighty attitude about how they know this ASL crap. Well, they might know ASL, but their English and grammar skills suck as well. Same idea goes for the hearing community; they might know how to speak English, but they suck at ASL unless they work hard to learn how to sign. One skill goes over the other, and unless you work hard to improve that other skill, then your two skills might balance at the equilibrium (that term is related to economics, but you know what I mean).

The problem I see is that the deafies tend to be narrow-minded about all that ASL crap. If they even *try* to be open-minded for once (and twice, thrice, and as many times as possible would be nicer!) then they would realize the potential they have with the hearies, like meeting them, falling in love and getting them to learn ASL--not in a coercing (means forcing) way.
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I don't know about what deafies u r talking about cuz most deafies I know have excellent English skills and are able to interact with the hearing world and most of them graduated from deaf schools. Maybe u and I interacted with different kinds of deafies. However, my point to this..not all deafies r like as u described above even the ones that grew up in deaf schools and in the deaf culture. I must have missed meeting those deaf militants, I guess?

If some deafies don't want to interact with the hearing world, who cares? Why does it bother u? Some deafies have no reason to interact with the hearing world. Who says they have to? If they can't find good jobs then it must be due to lack of skills especially in English and that is the individual's responsibility to improve their English skills for themselves, not ours. At least we could be more positive and supportive in helping them if they ask for it rather than be critical. I think by being critical, it would make them rebel and say stuff like they don't need the hearing world or their ASL is good. I know some deafies who have poor English skills and they honestly want to improve but they don't have the support or get tired of people looking down on them so they lose motivation.

If u really care at all, maybe try to be less critical perhaps?
 
I have no problem interacting with the hearing people. As long as they respect me.

Good patience to communication with me

Not oppressive

Treat me as other hearing people.

It will be no problem for me to interact with hearing world. ;)
 
FunkyLeprechaun said:
VamPyroX said:
I do agree with the part about their academic standards.
I agree. I do know some people who went to very good universities prior to dropping out and going to Gally. I don't know if it's a social thing (want to be around other deaf people) or Gallaudet's easier. A friend of mine that just recently attended a hearing university has now dropped out and going to Gallaudet.

I also agree about the graduate programme. My friends tried to persuade me to attend the graduate programme, adding that it's much better than the undergrad. They even knocked the undergrad programme as well.

Is it true that I've seen that hearing people are going to the graduate programme at Gally? Maybe it's an approach that GU should take, take in students who are interested in deaf studies?

I also think that, and I hope I don't get flamed for this, they should consider a hearing person with a vast interest in deaf studies to run GU.... flame away!
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Yes, it is true. Hearing grad students are accepted at Gally, and have been for many years.

As far as a hearing person with an interest in deaf studies running Gally, Deaf institutions provide a place for Deaf members of the community to teach and use the administrative skills they are not allowed to use at majority hearing institutions. So a hearing president kind of defeats the support Gally provides for others in the Deaf community.
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jillio said:
FunkyLeprechaun said:
VamPyroX said:
As far as a hearing person with an interest in deaf studies running Gally, Deaf institutions provide a place for Deaf members of the community to teach and use the administrative skills they are not allowed to use at majority hearing institutions. So a hearing president kind of defeats the support Gally provides for others in the Deaf community.
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To frame it another way, what about a hearing person that's a native signer (grew up in a deaf family) and they are qualified to run Gallaudet? Hey, they must have an understanding of the deaf community after all!
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And the point was not about understanding--it was about employment opportunites for Deaf people. A hearing administrator in that position would be a hearing employee.
 
jillio said:
FunkyLeprechaun said:
jillio said:
An understanding of the deaf community from a hearing perspective. That's the whole point.
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Is that like me having an understanding of the hearing community from a deaf perspective?

I do have deaf friends but I usually hang out with hearing people. All my deaf friends live in the US and we keep in touch by AIM and Xanga.

That's what I don't understand. Why can't a hearing person whose parents are deaf, siblings are deaf, run a deaf university? If they are qualified to run the University (good leadership skills, prior experience running a school (a deaf one), etc), why not expand the field a bit?

I'm not saying that there's a shortage of deaf candidates to become president of Gallaudet, but if there's a debate over whatever methods they use, whatever hearing aids they use, whatever education they were immersed in before getting involved in Gallaudet, etc etc., it will make it much harder to pick a qualified candidate to run the university.

Would Gallaudet prefer a hearing person that's been immersed in deaf culture since birth or prefer a deaf person that learned ASL late in life and mainstreamed (JKF)? Or someone who became deaf at 8 years old and attended mainstream graduate programmes (Davila)? Or even a deaf person that lost his hearing at 21 (Jordan)?

It's very tricky to pick a well-qualified deaf person to run the university without sparking some sort of outrage within the deaf community there. I am sure they spent a long time mulling over the candidates before picking JKF, and even eventually picking Davila. I've already seen message boards criticising Davila because he signs a certain way.

That would be the same with picking a hearing person to run Gallaudet. Despite the fact that this person had been immersed in deaf culture and is quite fluent in ASL, there would be protests because this person is "hearing".

It's a good question. Even though I'm deaf, people would say I do not have an understanding of the deaf culture (little sign language, mainstreamed education). Even if I had leadership skills that qualified me to run GU, that alone would disqualify me to run GU.

My point in all this would be, GU should not be about Deaf Culture. Relying on a Deaf Culture attitude will only shrink the enrollment rate. It should be a community with an understanding of deafness. I nearly typed "it should be about a deaf community" but then I realised hearing people can be included in this grouping, understanding deafness with a hearing perspective. Indeed.
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FunkyLeprechaun said:
jillio said:
FunkyLeprechaun said:
Is that like me having an understanding of the hearing community from a deaf perspective?

I do have deaf friends but I usually hang out with hearing people. All my deaf friends live in the US and we keep in touch by AIM and Xanga.

That's what I don't understand. Why can't a hearing person whose parents are deaf, siblings are deaf, run a deaf university? If they are qualified to run the University (good leadership skills, prior experience running a school (a deaf one), etc), why not expand the field a bit?

I'm not saying that there's a shortage of deaf candidates to become president of Gallaudet, but if there's a debate over whatever methods they use, whatever hearing aids they use, whatever education they were immersed in before getting involved in Gallaudet, etc etc., it will make it much harder to pick a qualified candidate to run the university.

Would Gallaudet prefer a hearing person that's been immersed in deaf culture since birth or prefer a deaf person that learned ASL late in life and mainstreamed (JKF)? Or someone who became deaf at 8 years old and attended mainstream graduate programmes (Davila)? Or even a deaf person that lost his hearing at 21 (Jordan)?

It's very tricky to pick a well-qualified deaf person to run the university without sparking some sort of outrage within the deaf community there. I am sure they spent a long time mulling over the candidates before picking JKF, and even eventually picking Davila. I've already seen message boards criticising Davila because he signs a certain way.

That would be the same with picking a hearing person to run Gallaudet. Despite the fact that this person had been immersed in deaf culture and is quite fluent in ASL, there would be protests because this person is "hearing".

It's a good question. Even though I'm deaf, people would say I do not have an understanding of the deaf culture (little sign language, mainstreamed education). Even if I had leadership skills that qualified me to run GU, that alone would disqualify me to run GU.

My point in all this would be, GU should not be about Deaf Culture. Relying on a Deaf Culture attitude will only shrink the enrollment rate. It should be a community with an understanding of deafness. I nearly typed "it should be about a deaf community" but then I realised hearing people can be included in this grouping, understanding deafness with a hearing perspective. Indeed.
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AGREED!!!

When I first joined here on AD, the Gallaudet protests over Jane were happening and there were several threads about it. Some AD members posted saying they believe that Gallaudet should be run by a Deaf person who came from Deaf parents, fully ASL, have deaf friends, and grew up in deaf schools. I made a statement saying that just because my parents put me in an oral-only program and I grew up not knowing ASL nor deaf culture, iam not qualified even though I am profoundly deaf, fluent in ASL and very involved in the deaf community both professionally and personally? I also stated how stupid and discriminating that was. To the say at least, those AD members wouldn't respond to my posts. I wonder why? Maybe it is cuz I made a valid point and they didn't want to address it? Anyways, my point is, I totally agree with u.

It is just completely ridiculous of some students r complaining about Davila signing a certain way. I would say to them..get a life and get over it. Time to move on.

However, in my personal life, most deaf people especially people who r employed at Gallaudet share the same viewpoints as I do. What I think is that those students who r complaining or threatening to protest against Davila are probably just doing it to get attention. That's my opinion.
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I think FL and shel have a point. Particularly now, with accreditation at stake, the focus needs to be on the students so that Gallaudet stays around in the future. Worrying overly much about the personal history of its leaders (or Deaf people are being offered leadership opportunities of this sort) risks allowing Gallaudet to decay in the short term. At this point, that could result in a long-term loss of an institution.
 
In my opinion, this should be about results. Who can get the job done? I don't go to Gally, and I don't claim to have any intimate knowledge of what's going on on-campus... but if news reports are to be believed, there's obviously something funky going on there, with such a low graduation rate, etc. How is that going to get turned around? How much of it is the president's responsibility, how much is the teachers', and how much is the students'?

Trying to decide who's "Deaf enough" to be president seems like a no-win situation, because there's always going to be someone out there for whom the nominee isn't Deaf enough. I understand from a cultural perspective why this is important... but aren't the end-results just as important?
 
InTheGenes said:
In my opinion, this should be about results. Who can get the job done? I don't go to Gally, and I don't claim to have any intimate knowledge of what's going on on-campus... but if news reports are to be believed, there's obviously something funky going on there, with such a low graduation rate, etc. How is that going to get turned around? How much of it is the president's responsibility, how much is the teachers', and how much is the students'?

Trying to decide who's "Deaf enough" to be president seems like a no-win situation, because there's always going to be someone out there for whom the nominee isn't Deaf enough. I understand from a cultural perspective why this is important... but aren't the end-results just as important?
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True..it seems that those issues got lost in the "Who's Deaf Enough to Runa Gallaudet?" campaign.
 
shel90 said:
FunkyLeprechaun said:
jillio said:
AGREED!!!

When I first joined here on AD, the Gallaudet protests over Jane were happening and there were several threads about it. Some AD members posted saying they believe that Gallaudet should be run by a Deaf person who came from Deaf parents, fully ASL, have deaf friends, and grew up in deaf schools. I made a statement saying that just because my parents put me in an oral-only program and I grew up not knowing ASL nor deaf culture, iam not qualified even though I am profoundly deaf, fluent in ASL and very involved in the deaf community both professionally and personally? I also stated how stupid and discriminating that was. To the say at least, those AD members wouldn't respond to my posts. I wonder why? Maybe it is cuz I made a valid point and they didn't want to address it? Anyways, my point is, I totally agree with u.

It is just completely ridiculous of some students r complaining about Davila signing a certain way. I would say to them..get a life and get over it. Time to move on.

However, in my personal life, most deaf people especially people who r employed at Gallaudet share the same viewpoints as I do. What I think is that those students who r complaining or threatening to protest against Davila are probably just doing it to get attention. That's my opinion.
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Agreed. I personally think the "Not Deaf Enough" debate has taken things a bit too far. However, great strides were made in 1986, when the protests resulted in I King Jordan's appointment to Gally. The issue back then was rebellion against the hearing communicty dictating policy for deaf students at a deaf institution, and it wa a protest that was appropriate given the time and the climate. I think that there are some students, today, who are trying to ride on the coat tails of an historical and effective period of Gally history, and their cause is not nearly as worthy of attention as was the Deaf Pres Now protest. There are many area in education that would be far more worthy of their time, attention, and social awareness that attempting to continue an era that, while certainly important and worthy of remembrance, is over.
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Former Gally student

Going to Gally in the late 70's, early 80's, nothing has changed. We had people protesting about oral vs. signs. I look it as a mirror image - HI people are criticized for not "speaking English correctly" by hearing people, at the same time deaf criticize HI for not knowing ASL. My two cents. Is the Gally cafeteria still divided up into three "areas" HI sit in the booths- U shaped around the center, ASL sit near the center and hearing students sit upstairs ?
 
clerchall said:
Going to Gally in the late 70's, early 80's, nothing has changed. We had people protesting about oral vs. signs. I look it as a mirror image - HI people are criticized for not "speaking English correctly" by hearing people, at the same time deaf criticize HI for not knowing ASL. My two cents. Is the Gally cafeteria still divided up into three "areas" HI sit in the booths- U shaped around the center, ASL sit near the center and hearing students sit upstairs ?
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I never went to the Gally cafeteria since I didnt live on campus. However, while going there, I did notice a few times in the SAC eatery, groups splitting up ..the hearing students, oral deaf, Deaf, and the CIs but not always. There was some mingling too.
 
The three Gally Fraternities - Kappa Gamma -ASL; Kappa Sigma- H.I/oral; Alpha Sigma Pi - both ASL/Oral. Been a long time ago - has it changed with the Kappa Gamma walking in a straight line ?, sitting at the lunch table - not eating ?
 
clerchall said:
The three Gally Fraternities - Kappa Gamma -ASL; Kappa Sigma- H.I/oral; Alpha Sigma Pi - both ASL/Oral. Been a long time ago - has it changed with the Kappa Gamma walking in a straight line ?, sitting at the lunch table - not eating ?
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I will have to ask my brother cuz he was more into that kind of thing at Gally. He is a Kappa Sigma member. I was just a grad student trying to support myself and my daughter so I didnt have time for those things or pay attention to the fraternities.
 
deafskeptic said:
Would you mind citing the source of this info? I've just googled NTID and there's nothing on the web about NTID losing accrediation.
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This isn't something that they would exactly announce to the public yet. But word is getting around among the faculty and staff members of NTID and RIT about it. Of course, the college itself usually hears of the news before everyone else does. ;)
 
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