Doubling of maternal deaths in U.S. 'scandalous,' rights group says

jillio said:
Rather judgemental, isn't it?
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It's true, isn't it? What kind of support is a mother and child going to get from an incarcerated criminal?
 
Reba said:
It's true, isn't it? What kind of support is a mother and child going to get from an incarcerated criminal?
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No, it is not necessarily true. I would need to know more of the circumstances before making a judgement against someone who is incarcerated. Many innocent people suffer the fate. Nor is it necessarily wise to judge someone as less than simply because they have made a mistake.
 
jillio said:
We are discussing maternal death rates. If mother and child both die due to lack of accessability to medical care, there is no child to suffer consequences of social inequities.
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If the mother only dies, then the child is an orphan.

If the child dies, that's suffering a consequence.

By throwing responsibilty back to the woman, it is effectively being said that she, and she alone, is responsible for her own death.
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I never said that.

If anything, I keep trying to put the responsibility on the father to provide for the mother and baby.

Obviously the choices the woman makes in the type of man she sleeps with will determine how much chance she has in getting that support from him.

I would like to see the mother get her prenatal care with the bill going to the father if she doesn't have insurance. Then, let the doctor and hospital go after the guy for collection.
 
Won't happen if they won't 'fess up the name of the father... for numerous reasons.

Or if the father resides in another country.

Not so cut and dry.
 
jillio said:
No, it is not necessarily true. I would need to know more of the circumstances before making a judgement against someone who is incarcerated. Many innocent people suffer the fate. Nor is it necessarily wise to judge someone as less than simply because they have made a mistake.
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A "mistake?" If he's in prison that "mistake" is called a felony.

That's right; hardly anyone in prison is guilty of a crime. :roll:

If he's in prison he can't provide support for his baby.
 
Reba said:
If the mother only dies, then the child is an orphan.

If the child dies, that's suffering a consequence.


I never said that.

If anything, I keep trying to put the responsibility on the father to provide for the mother and baby.

Obviously the choices the woman makes in the type of man she sleeps with will determine how much chance she has in getting that support from him.

I would like to see the mother get her prenatal care with the bill going to the father if she doesn't have insurance. Then, let the doctor and hospital go after the guy for collection.
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But by saying that the woman's choice is responsible for her circumstances, you are placing responsibility back on the woman. Perhaps circumstances were not the same when her choice was made. Relationships and circumstances go through constant changes.
 
souggy said:
Won't happen if they won't 'fess up the name of the father... for numerous reasons.

Or if the father resides in another country.

Not so cut and dry.
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There does seem to be an endless supply of excuses for letting the men off the hook.
 
Reba said:
A "mistake?" If he's in prison that "mistake" is called a felony.

That's right; hardly anyone in prison is guilty of a crime. :roll:

If he's in prison he can't provide support for his baby.
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Again with the judgement.:roll:
 
Reba said:
There does seem to be an endless supply of excuses for letting the men off the hook.
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Not really an "endless supply." Just not everything is black and white as you see it.

I spend a lot of time around girls my age, and I listen to their rationales to why they won't pursue the fathers.
 
souggy said:
Not really an "endless supply." Just not everything is black and white as you see it.

I spend a lot of time around girls my age, and I listen to their rationales to why they won't pursue the fathers.
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Nothing is ever black and white. And just because one makes a different choice than you yourself would make doesn't mean that their choice is less good a choice than yours. We all have different choices available to us. One woman does not have the same choices available as another. It is terribly ego centric to pass judgement on all based on your own set of circumstances.
 
jillio said:
But by saying that the woman's choice is responsible for her circumstances, you are placing responsibility back on the woman. Perhaps circumstances were not the same when her choice was made. Relationships and circumstances go through constant changes.
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Didn't the woman choose the man (excepting rape, of course)?

Yeah. From the time the two slept together until she finds herself pregnant (maybe a few weeks?) the relationship does change from "fun" to "responsibility" for BOTH parents.
 
Reba said:
Didn't the woman choose the man (excepting rape, of course)?

Yeah. From the time the two slept together until she finds herself pregnant (maybe a few weeks?) the relationship does change from "fun" to "responsibility" for BOTH parents.
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You only need to be concerned with judgement in your own circumstances. It is not your job to judge others for theirs.

What makes you think that all relationships result in pregnancy within a few weeks? There is just as good a chance that the couple have been involved for an extended period of time. Change is not limited to the first two weeks of the relationship.

And again, this is very judgemental.
 
jillio said:
...What makes you think that all relationships result in pregnancy within a few weeks?
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I didn't say that. I said, "From the time the two slept together until she finds herself pregnant (maybe a few weeks?)."

Most women these days know they are pregnant within a few weeks of conception.
 
Reba said:
Didn't the woman choose the man (excepting rape, of course)?

Yeah. From the time the two slept together until she finds herself pregnant (maybe a few weeks?) the relationship does change from "fun" to "responsibility" for BOTH parents.
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Wait.

I knocked up my ex?

Why she didn't tell me? :|:confused:
 
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