Do I Understand?

Aspiring said:
I really hate to ruin the argument (not to mention, I feel bad that I cannot contribute to the actual topic of this discussion) but I have to point a few things out.

Jillio, I don't know you very well but it seems like you are doing a great thing. However, everyone needs to get their facts straight.

First of all, here's the quote from Cloggy's blog about his daughter's remark:



Second of all, the reason for the bad grammar might be due to the fact that English is not her first language. I think it's Dutch. So it might have nothing to do with a delay in language development.
....I see Cloggy said something about that... oh well

Thank you, getting back on topic would be wonderful. And I was aware of Cloggy's daughter's quote....I used it more than once when cloggy attempted to change the wording in a later post.

Oh, and Cloggy. Here's another miscommunication you should see:



See, when Jillio mentioned the 1920's being big on oralism, it's because he was responding to someone using evidence from someone's opinion back in the 1920's.

And, finally, can we all please read our facts, stop having hissy fits, and get back to the original topic??
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Cloggy enjoys twisting words to try and portray an intent that was never there. It is a game he plays.
 
jillio said:
I've never met anyone who agreed with everything I say, R2D2.:giggle: That would be a bit of an unrealistic expectation! LOL
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Yes, there are degrees of agreement and the funny thing is that perception of that agreement or disagreement can change according to circumstance. a country faced with a foreign invader, will often overlook their internal differences and unify. When people only focus on the differences, then it can be hard to see any possible common beliefs or shared experience.

Sometimes, I feel we focus too much on the differences as a problem rather than just accepting that people are just...different.
 
shel90 said:
Speaking of whether people understand or not, I went to my husband's work picnic the other day. Met many of his coworkers..did my best to chat with everyone as much as I can but it was hard with needing my eyes to watch my son. Anyways..one lady came up to me and asked me if I was born deaf. I say yea and she asked me what do I think of getting a CI. I said, I did think of it a long time ago but decided not to. She asked me why not. I said cuz I am comfortable with who I am and my deafness. She then started a tirade of comments about deaf people and CIs. Basically she was saying that she doesn't understand why don't all deaf people get CIs and how there should be a law forcing us to get the CI surgery. I didn't want to blow up but I was boiling mad. I told her that many deaf people r happy as they are and then she said that it is stupid cuz we aren't doing anything to improve ourselves. I asked her what did she mean by that and she said all we do is isolate ourselves, refuse to use English, refuse to learn how to talk like normal people, and cost society a lot of money with needing Terps and CARTs.....I told her that if I was isolating myself, I wouldn't be here at the picnic interacting with u or everyone else right? She said that I didn't need to be a smart mouth about it (Of course whenever I make a good point, I always get that "don't be a smart mouth or smart ass" remark from people who don't know much about deafness). So, I told her that I didn't appreciate all these comments and to kindly leave me alone and she said she was going to start a petition to get a law passed for all deaf people to get CIs. I was like ok whatever and good luck and told my husband what she said. He reported her to his boss for being rude but his boss said she had the right to voice her opinions and that she agreed with her. I told my husband is that how the gerneral hearing population feels and he said sort of cuz he has had people telling him that he should encourage me to get a CI so I can live a better life.

Now that really sucks if that's the impression people have about CIs..that they will solve all of our problems. Like having money solves all problems and we all know it is not true.

Big time lack of understanding from that lady. Just wanted to share with all of u the lack of empathy that some hearing people get. And some people wonder why many deaf people want nothing to do with the hearing world. With that kind of attitude, I wouldn't but I am not gonna let that stop me.
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Oi, Shel. It's clear this hearing person doesn't understand deafness. I can see why many deaf would rather not have anything to do with the hearing.

This lady sounds worse than the guy that I met at a recent silent dinner. He couldn't understand why his Deaf friend wouldn't try to learn to speak and that his mother wants him to speak. The Deaf guy in question is fifty years old. I'm like I have no doubt that he tried hard to speak earlier. His hearing friend just couldn't understand why he couldn't speak like me. *head to desk* Some people just never learn to speak. I felt like throwing my hands up in the air at this guy. I think it's rather pointless for this guy to speak after all the effort he likely put in to learn to speak when he was young.
 
The guy'd be awfully sorry, it sounds like to me, if his Deaf friend went ahead and obliged him. :giggle:
 
Cloggy said:
Thanks for your concern, and those cases you mentioned are know.
Menigitis is often also the cause for deafness, and that is in case the child doesn't die. So in that respect, with the additional awarenes for this, children with CI are probably less likely to die from it than other children. So CI might actually have prevented menigitis-related deaths !!

What is also know is deaths of deaf people due to their lack of hearing. HAve you ever heared of these?
In a way, there will allways be risks.
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It looks like you didn't read the first link of the three I gave you. Not even the link itself which said "Cochlear Implant Recipients May Be at Greater Risk for Meningitis". It is clear from the title alone that CI kids do get meningitis after the implant. If you bother to read this, you will see it is written by FDA which is the government (not deaf group or other people) and that CI kids do die from meningitis. Even those who became deaf because of meningitis, can catch meningitis again after the implant. Some of the CI kids do die. CI doesn't prevented meningitis-related deaths - Period!
 
Buffalo said:
It looks like you didn't read the first link of the three I gave you. Not even the link itself which said "Cochlear Implant Recipients May Be at Greater Risk for Meningitis". It is clear from the title alone that CI kids do get meningitis after the implant. If you bother to read this, you will see it is written by FDA which is the government (not deaf group or other people) and that CI kids do die from meningitis. Even those who became deaf because of meningitis, can catch meningitis again after the implant. Some of the CI kids do die. CI doesn't prevented meningitis-related deaths - Period!
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The FDA figures compare rates of meningitis in children with CIs to normally hearing children, not to deaf children without CIs, which would be more meaningful.

Meningitis and pre-existing deafness have positive corelations, even without bringing CIs into the picture. I saw a study earlier this year that showed that deaf kids regardless of CI, are up to 4-5 times more likely than the normally hearing population to develop meningitis. They think that deaf kids possibly have structural features that make this terrible disease more likely to occur.

So the difference between CI deaf kids and other deaf kids in terms of meningitis rate is probably not all that significant. And they are still trying to figure out how much of the meningitis in the CI kids occur because of the pre-existing factors or and how much of it is due to the surgery itself.
 
shel90 said:
... She then started a tirade of comments about deaf people and CIs. Basically she was saying that she doesn't understand why don't all deaf people get CIs and how there should be a law forcing us to get the CI surgery.
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:squint: Then there should be a law that make everybody learn sign language.
 
Oddball said:
I personally believe that getting a quality of education is more important than practicing speech, talking, etc like a parrot. It is waste time for Deaf individuals with their poor speech skills. If a Deaf person can't speak well like hearing, don't worry about that...just focus on education which it is more important than minicing like a parrot.
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My personal belief, too. :h5:
 
jillio said:
And, I didn't live throught the Halocaust, either, but as my mother's side of my family is German Jew, it is something that was very much apart of my life, and from speaking with my relatives, I was able to gain closer understanding from their first hand experience than someone who had never talked to a survivor fromthe Halocaust would have.
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With respect to Jewish people, I do understand how they feel during Holocaust in a way. I have read that some Jewish people converted but they are still being discriminated. It is like once a Jew, always a Jew. I feel the same way - once a Deaf, always a Deaf. Because of what the converted Jewish people went thru, I won't be surprised if a Deaf person decided to get implanted and find that discrimination didn't stop there.

Maybe you do understand the Deaf people in a way, using your family past experiences.
 
pek1 said:
Wow! Well, if she goes around getting a petition like that, shel, then we should get a petition started that bans stupid people from having children! You weren't being a smart mouth, you answered her questions. She was the one that was a smart mouth, not to mention harrassing you and asking questions and making comments that were none of her business. Keep your distance from her in the future, shel. Another thing you could have asked is how deaf people cost money, and go into how much education you have and what your degrees are. Assuming she is not a college grad, that should shut her up.
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There was an eugenic law. They sterilized anybody they look down on like native americans, african americans, poor people, anybody with disablitiy (yes, that included deaf people). We don't need a law forcing deaf people to have CI. Jazzy made a very good point - not all deaf people can have CI due to problems with cochlears.
 
R2D2 said:
For me the broader deaf community (hence the name of this website ALLDEAF) is diverse and as such, you get different circumstances, opinions, angles and viewpoints. Even within the signing community there is debate about different signing methods and approaches such as ASL, SEE, etc etc.
Diversity and debate is part of life and I see it also in other communities in which I participate.

So, I think that you represent the views of a section of the people here on AD, but not everyone since it's virtually impossible to be able to represent everyone in such a diverse community. I notice that you get a lot of positive feedback from those people but then there are others like myself who appreciate your passion and care for deaf children but would not agree with everything you say.
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I agree that there is diversity in deaf community and sometimes I think I am on the tower of Babbel. Some of them don't make any sense to me. :)
 
R2D2 said:
The FDA figures compare rates of meningitis in children with CIs to normally hearing children, not to deaf children without CIs, which would be more meaningful.

Meningitis and pre-existing deafness have positive corelations, even without bringing CIs into the picture. I saw a study earlier this year that showed that deaf kids regardless of CI, are up to 4-5 times more likely than the normally hearing population to develop meningitis. They think that deaf kids possibly have structural features that make this terrible disease more likely to occur.

So the difference between CI deaf kids and other deaf kids in terms of meningitis rate is probably not all that significant. And they are still trying to figure out how much of the meningitis in the CI kids occur because of the pre-existing factors or and how much of it is due to the surgery itself.
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Interesting point. There should be a study focusing on meningitis in CI kids versus deaf kids without CI. We, all should keep an eye out for this study and post a link in Alldeaf if one became available.
 
Buffalo said:
There was an eugenic law. They sterilized anybody they look down on like native americans, african americans, poor people, anybody with disablitiy (yes, that included deaf people). We don't need a law forcing deaf people to have CI. Jazzy made a very good point - not all deaf people can have CI due to problems with cochlears.
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Interesting point you made. I have to admit, that even though I would approve a CI for others, providing their body can take it, I wouldn't take the chance to have one, because any residual hearing is gone and there will be no sound. Another thing, my audiologist told me I don't qualify for a CI. So, no, I don't approve of sterilization, either, unless it's for stupid people like the one that talked to shel.
 
Cloggy said:
EH.. "Deaf girls walks on the rails and does not hear warning-signals from train..." because she was ... deaf?

Little more going on there than deafness!

And regarding menigites...
What percetage of children die from menigites? (Children of which most parents are not aware of menigites..)

[COLOR="Red"You can find these statistics at the CDC website.
[/COLOR]
What percentage of children with CI die of menigites? (Children of which most parents are very aware of menigites..)[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="Red"]You can also find these statistics at the CDC website.[/COLOR]
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jillio said:
Cloggy: EH.. "Deaf girls walks on the rails and does not hear warning-signals from train..." because she was ... deaf?

Jill: Little more going on there than deafness!
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WOW, some statement... Guess a (deaf or hearing) child dying due to menigitis is so straightforward......

Care to elaborate.....
 
pek1 said:
Interesting point you made. I have to admit, that even though I would approve a CI for others, providing their body can take it, I wouldn't take the chance to have one, because any residual hearing is gone and there will be no sound. Another thing, my audiologist told me I don't qualify for a CI. So, no, I don't approve of sterilization, either, unless it's for stupid people like the one that talked to shel.
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My husband said that woman is looney anyway..
 
jillio said:
You can also find these statistics at the CDC website.
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Well you might be able to find it. Feel free to share the info when you find it.

Point is that parents (any parent, of any - deaf or hearing - child) can interpret the symptoms as flu because of fever, vomiting and irritability. The distinctive rash is not always present and waiting can be fatal.
No, parents of children with CI are very aware of it, and will not take any chance when any of the symptoms surfaces.. and as a result, less fatalities..
 
Cloggy said:
WOW, some statement... Guess a (deaf or hearing) child dying due to menigitis is so straightforward......

Care to elaborate.....
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A child dying from meningitis was not out engaging in a dangerous behavior such as walking on a train track, now were they? And, as far as not hearing the train coming, a moving train creates a tremendous amount of vibration in the rails. I don't know of a single dea personwhowould not have been attuned to feeling the vibrational changes. Not to mention, if the train also sounded a warning signal, another source of vibration affecting a different part of the body would also have been available.

I don't know about Norway, but inthe U.S. people are killed from being hit by trains fairly frequently. The ones who are killed from walking or standing on the tracks are usually found to be cases of suicide, or there are other extenuating circumstances involved. The great majority of the deaths, however, are the result of hearing drivers thinking they can beat an oncoming train through an intersection, and taking an uneccesary and stupid risk that costs them their life.

My remark had nothing todo with meningitis. I was referring to your statement regardingthe girl hit by the train.
 
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