Disbelief is not a choice

souggy said:
The Greeks knew the Earth was round before the Bible. The Pythagoras theorized it in the 6th century BCE. Eratosthenes was the first one to mathmatically prove it in the 3th century BCE. The Books of Wisdom was dated back to the 1st or 2nd century BCE. So, I don't see your point?
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I wasn't talking about the earth being round in regards to "The Wisdom of Solomon". The Book of Apocrypha is not considered to be a part of the Bible - but the Catholics include it.

I am talking about the differential rotation of the sun. King Solomon explained this in his writings.
 
It would behoove you greatly to read the actual Wiki article before citing it. They pointed out all the flaws with the documentary halfway down.
 
DeafCaroline said:
Which exception?
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More than one exception -

Nebraska Man

Java Man

"Upgrading Neanderthal Man", Time Magazine, May 17, 1971, Vol. 97, No. 20

Orce Man

Piltdown Man

http://www.med.unsw.edu.au/SOMSWeb.nsf/resources/freeman02/$file/Haeckel+ABT.pdf

Ernst Haeckel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


“To support his theory, however, Haeckel, whose knowledge of embryology was self-taught, faked some of his evidence. He not only altered his illustrations of embryos but also printed the same plate of an embryo three times, and labeled one a human, the second a dog and the third a rabbit ‘to show their similarity”

Bowden, Malcolm, 1977, Ape-Men: Fact or Fallacy? Bromley, England: Sovereign Publications
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There are many many more out there - and apparently children are not taught about the frauds and forgeries that are being taught as fact.
 
DeafCaroline said:
Apes have not evolved into man.

Where did space come from, or the first particle? That's a very good question and it does make me reluctant to completely write off the concept of a force greater than us, I just don't see that force in a religious context but more in a cosmic sense.
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No, apes evolved from early primates same as humans. We share a common ancestor.

as for where space came from? Space is the void between. But I think you mean the universe. Other than the Big Bang Theory, I don't have any insights. you can always go to the religious route and say that it all exists because God decreed it. but then you might wonder where God came from. (or at least I do). But in an infinite universe given enough time, the impossible becomes possible, the possible becomes probable, the probable becomes virtually certain.
 
Steinhauer said:
More than one exception -

Nebraska Man

Java Man

"Upgrading Neanderthal Man", Time Magazine, May 17, 1971, Vol. 97, No. 20

Orce Man

Piltdown Man

http://www.med.unsw.edu.au/SOMSWeb.nsf/resources/freeman02/$file/Haeckel+ABT.pdf

Ernst Haeckel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



There are many many more out there - and apparently children are not taught about the frauds and forgeries that are being taught as fact.
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As science grew, so did education that required adjusting previous speculations. There was a time once children were taught the world was flat. Does that invalidate science? No, it just proves education was lacking.

Java Man - this discovery was 1891
Nebraska Man - 1922
Upgrading Neanderthal Man - 1971
Orce Man - due to the fact it was a small piece of a skull, it brought forth debates as to its species.
Pilt Down Man - proven to be a forgery in 1953

Care to give examples of frauds and forgeries?
 
No one in the evolutionary biology accepts Pitfall Man or Nebraska Man. Orce Man doesn't even exist anywhere outside of the Creationist community!

The poorly-preserved Java Man isn't even debated anymore ever since they found older and better peserved fossils in the Rift Valley of Africa.
 
DeafCaroline said:
Apes have not evolved into man.

Where did space come from, or the first particle? That's a very good question and it does make me reluctant to completely write off the concept of a force greater than us, I just don't see that force in a religious context but more in a cosmic sense.
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Well, I was on the fence until my mother saw the light just before she passed, and was able to form a sentence to admit to it. That cured my skepticism. ;)
 
souggy said:
It would behoove you greatly to read the actual Wiki article before citing it. They pointed out all the flaws with the documentary halfway down.
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They also claimed there were no citations - that is why I gave a quotation from a book claiming he was guilty of fraud. From 1977.

It's not that hard to find citations ;)
 
souggy said:
No one in the evolutionary biology accepts Pitfall Man or Nebraska Man. Orce Man doesn't even exist anywhere outside of the Creationist community!

The poorly-preserved Java Man isn't even debated anymore ever since they found older and better peserved fossils in the Rift Valley of Africa.
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But they were all presented as fact. Until proven otherwise. Even Haeckel's findings are still presented as fact, even after having been found guilty of fraud.
 
hmm, took a gander on this today. I figure this is where the another topic in the adults section came out from.

You know, I can contribute this: in relation to the whole biological concept. Studies on apes. Apes have also been observed to do homosexual behaviors even though it was not for the intended purpose. Since I'd like to think (and I hope that most of us would agree) apes are as biological as they can get without human interference, this show that even animals don't adapt to a "straight-only" preference. I'm sure it's not limited to hominids too. Now speaking of that I recall an observation I read that talked about a male mallard duck performing necrophilia on a deceased male duck. So yeah, animals. :hmm:
 
Steinhauer said:
They also claimed there were no citations - that is why I gave a quotation from a book claiming he was guilty of fraud. From 1977.

It's not that hard to find citations ;)
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And your point is what? that children are being intentionally taught false information?

I can see how they were mistakenly taught wrong information but I don't see why schools would deliberately and knowingly teach children false information unless it was in extreme cases like jihadism.
 
Steinhauer said:
But they were all presented as fact. Until proven otherwise. Even Haeckel's findings are still presented as fact, even after having been found guilty of fraud.
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That's cause Haeckel did studies on things that weren't previously done. He did a radical way of showing what he wanted to prove. As unethical as he may had done it, he still had done something that no one in his time had done. Biology, like science, seeks to improvise existing findings, not stay solid on one.
 
naisho said:
That's cause Haeckel did studies on things that weren't previously done. He did a radical way of showing what he wanted to prove. As unethical as he may had done it, he still had done something that no one in his time had done. Biology, like science, seeks to improvise existing findings, not stay solid on one.
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And not all of them were debunked; only some of his findings were debunked. The rest remains uncontested due to lack of better evidences saying otherwise.
 
DeafCaroline said:
And your point is what? that children are being intentionally taught false information?

I can see how they were mistakenly taught wrong information but I don't see why schools would deliberately and knowingly teach children false information unless it was in extreme cases like jihadism.
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"Science knows that it doesn't know everything. Otherwise, it would stop." - Dara O'Briain
 
Steinhauer said:
But they were all presented as fact. Until proven otherwise. Even Haeckel's findings are still presented as fact, even after having been found guilty of fraud.
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That's what science is. In fact, that's what anything is. Older theories are replaced with new ones. I don't see anyone still teaching feudalism as an acceptable social theory; except in Tibet.

Haeckel's findings have been revised. The original 1874 drawing was found fraudulent. The latter revisions are not. Keep up with the times.

If you really want to debunk things, you need to keep up.
 
Steinhauer said:
Oooohhh ... and about Baptists! I always thought this was interesting:

Martin Luther King - Biography
In 1954, Martin Luther King became pastor of the Dexter Avenue Baptist Church in Montgomery, Alabama.
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Hey Steinhauer, bit of a sidetrack but did you keep up with the news?

There was this recent bit the past weeks on Jackie Kennedy and Edgar Hoover talking about MLK and his quavering faith in Baptism..
 
souggy said:
The Greeks knew the Earth was round before the Bible. The Pythagoras theorized it in the 6th century BCE. Eratosthenes was the first one to mathmatically prove it in the 3th century BCE. The Books of Wisdom was dated back to the 1st or 2nd century BCE. So, I don't see your point?
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Most of the Old Testament was written centuries before Pythagoras and Eratosthenes were even born. King Solomon lived about 300 years before Pythagoras was born.

Do the math.
 
souggy said:
Again, Greek secular knowledge predates King Solomon's writings. I still don't see your point.
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King Solomon lived centuries before those Greeks that you listed, so how could their knowledge predate his?
 
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