CPS teacher strike and Illinois area....

How much of how well the current kids are thought to be doing in comparison to the past is affected by what is taught at what age?

For example I think I have run across mention of algebra for what we knew as 7th & 8th graders. We were not even offered beginning algebra until the Freshman year of high school. Of course, to some here I am really going back to the dark ages for I graduated of high school in 1960.
 
Reba said:
I'm kind of torn on this one. One group of students that has historically seemed to be successful in America have been the first generations of immigrants. Their parents were poor, often segregated from the general community, didn't speak English, and worked long, hard hours away from home. Their parents never got "personal time" from work, and they rarely could help their kids with the homework. So, what happened? How did those poor immigrant neighborhoods turn out so many successful Americans?
. So, what is the difference between then and now? :hmm:
Click to expand...

I am not sure what is different - perhaps over generations we have come to "expect" a certain standard and we are so far removed from the struggling generations that we don't "get it?" I'm really not sure but it seems "kids these days" have way more and work for far less....

Reba said:
Even in my generation, my parents didn't help me with homework. It was my "job." My parents divorced, my mom had to work, and money was very tight. It never occurred to me that they were responsible for my success or failure.
Click to expand...

Same here. BUT our parents considered school our JOB. This is setting parental expectations that support the school system. It is also something missing in many households today.


Reba said:
Some of these no tolerance policies are nonsensical. The principals should be allowed to exercise some wisdom and discretion in discipline situations. They shouldn't have to call the police for back up every time a second grader points a spoon handle at another kid.
Click to expand...

Agreed. However, when teachers are forced to deal daily with behavioral issues in the classroom it is disruptive to the learning environment. As a result, more time is spent managing the classroom than teaching the classroom.


Reba said:
I'm not sure about year-round schooling. Do the majority of teachers want that?

I'm curious why it takes more time (longer days and more days) to teach kids. Are they slower learners now?
Click to expand...

Not sure if teachers would agree with me on this or not. My premise is that teachers want more pay and more respect. Whenever the debate on pay occurs, some one says, "Heck, I wish I only had to work 180 days a year! I work 50 weeks a year and make more money. I should because I "work more." If teachers want to remove that obstacle then a step in the right direction would be to have year round schooling. Keep in mind, that doesn't mean 52 weeks.... It could be a quarter system with 2-3 weeks in between quarters plus holiday breaks... It fends off the argument on pay related to 9 month school years. Many schools in Georgia do this (they also have NO teachers union).

Just my thoughts, as I said I don't have a lot of answers and my answers are really just opinion. tlk
 
Just tossing this into the mix:

Historical sexism.

Until the last couple centuries, teaching was considered the realm of men. Then, women gradually got into the profession of teaching. Even then, it took a while for them to be accepted as professors, especially outside of women-only colleges.

Now, especially in elementary and middle grades, most teachers are women.

Has that changed the perception of teaching (outside of the university) from a white-collar profession to a pink-collar job?

Is that why teachers are now having to fight to regain the respect that once belonged to their profession?

:hmm:
 
Reba said:
Just tossing this into the mix:

Historical sexism.

Until the last couple centuries, teaching was considered the realm of men. Then, women gradually got into the profession of teaching. Even then, it took a while for them to be accepted as professors, especially outside of women-only colleges.

Now, especially in elementary and middle grades, most teachers are women.

Has that changed the perception of teaching (outside of the university) from a white-collar profession to a pink-collar job?

Is that why teachers are now having to fight to regain the respect that once belonged to their profession?

:hmm:
Click to expand...

You might be interested in this item of history. In the small Southern Illinois town where my mother taught second grade from the fall of 1924 through the end of the school year in the spring of 1939 women had to quit if they got married. The only exception on staff was a woman principal at the grade school where my mother taught who's husband was disabled (I don't know what his problem was). They could sub but not be the regular teacher. Mom did teach most of the year later in another of the grade schools in that system as a sub. when someone they had hired didn't show up.
 
Jiro said:
Middle States Commission is one of the 6 biggest accreditation agencies.

According to MSCSS, only 193 public high schools, 101 private high schools and 251 "religious denomination high schools" are accredited in NJ. Those schools including mine that are accredited are typically on top 50-100 best schools in the state. As for rest.... they're not accredited.

You're still failing to prove your claim. All you do is jester around and poke a hole in any way you can without proving your own claim.

Another fact for you - there is no federal regulation or federally recognized list of accreditation agencies for secondary education.... only higher education. So each state has its own criteria for its own public schools and it's up to them to get accredited by regional accreditation agencies or not.
Click to expand...

Again, That is just one accrediting body. :)

My post speaks for itself, non-accredited high schools are so rare the Universities have "alternate admissions" standards for their students. *shrug*

And, nice straw man, I never claimed the accreditation agencies were federally regulated.
 
TXgolfer said:
Again, That is just one accrediting body. :)

My post speaks for itself, non-accredited high schools are so rare the Universities have "alternate admissions" standards for their students. *shrug*

And, nice straw man, I never claimed the accreditation agencies were federally regulated.
Click to expand...

it's ok. you're trying too hard.

Yes I know you didn't say that but I was explaining it to you.
 
Reba said:
Yes, this is a problem. There should be at least some kind of national base provision for necessities, and then let the higher property areas add frills.


I'm curious why it takes more time (longer days and more days) to teach kids. Are they slower learners now?
Click to expand...

Part 1: Whoa whoa whoa whoa!!!!! Can we make that State please? :lol:

Part 2: Distractions at home, less study at home, teaching to the test and and too many new subjects/topics required (ie. Political Correctness). That is my guess anyway.
 
Jiro said:
it's ok. you're trying too hard.

Yes I know you didn't say that but I was explaining it to you.
Click to expand...

Actually pointing out your mistake was quite easy. Being someone that helps kids find money for school I was quite aware that Universities had different requirements for the occasional kid that applies from a non-accredited high school and for kids who home school.

No need to explain. I have actually been involved in the process of helping new schools get accredited. 3 different schools to be exact. It is a very difficult process. Add this to my research in selecting the schools my daughter would attend and I know more about accreditation than I ever wanted to. You see, some of us speak from experience rather than google.
 
Jane B. said:
How much of how well the current kids are thought to be doing in comparison to the past is affected by what is taught at what age?

For example I think I have run across mention of algebra for what we knew as 7th & 8th graders. We were not even offered beginning algebra until the Freshman year of high school. Of course, to some here I am really going back to the dark ages for I graduated of high school in 1960.
Click to expand...

I really am wondering about this. How much of saying the kids don't do as well as years ago comes from being expected to do more advanced work to be considered at "grade level"?
 
Even in New Jersey....

Admission by Examination

Candidates who have not completed high school, or who have a diploma from a nonaccredited high school may qualify for admission by examination. Such candidates must submit scores from SAT Subject Tests as well as the SAT or ACT required of all candidates. The three subject area tests must include English, mathematics, and a third subject of the student's choice.
Click to expand...

Catalog Navigator : Admission by Examination
 
TXgolfer said:
Actually pointing out your mistake was quite easy. Being someone that helps kids find money for school I was quite aware that Universities had different requirements for the occasional kid that applies from a non-accredited high school and for kids who home school.

No need to explain. I have actually been involved in the process of helping new schools get accredited. 3 different schools to be exact. It is a very difficult process. Add this to my research in selecting the schools my daughter would attend and I know more about accreditation than I ever wanted to. You see, some of us speak from experience rather than google.
Click to expand...

I work for college and we just got accredited couple years ago by MSCHE. I was involved in it too because we're required to put up everything online :)

I don't really see how you can be involved in the process of helping new schools to get accredited unless you're a board member or educator or similar. Care to elaborate more?
 
Jane B. said:
I really am wondering about this. How much of saying the kids don't do as well as years ago comes from being expected to do more advanced work to be considered at "grade level"?
Click to expand...

I think it is a fair point. Kids today have to learn computers which wasn't a thing in the past. But at the same time computers have given kids more learning resources.

Class time is also hurt by teaching to the test and the aching PC stuff that we didn't have to put up with years ago.
 
Jiro said:
I work for college and we just got accredited couple years ago by MSCHE. I was involved in it too because we're required to put up everything online :)

I don't really see how you can be involved in the process of helping new schools to get accredited unless you're a board member or educator or similar. Care to elaborate more?
Click to expand...

No.
 
Jiro said:
right. I was disputing your claim that most private schools go through an accreditation process.



I have already shown you that most private and public schools are not accredited.
Click to expand...

No, you have not. And again, if your statement were true Universities would not need alternate admissions polices for students of non-accredited high schools because by your belief that would be most students. :lol:
 
TXgolfer said:
No, you have not. And again, if your statement were true Universities would not need alternate admissions polices for students of non-accredited high schools because by your belief that would be most students. :lol:
Click to expand...

That statement is there because of home-schooled students and the fact that most schools are not accredited.

and I've already shown you 2 major accreditation agencies and the proof was substantial enough to back my statement that most schools are not accredited. If you have any source that dispute otherwise.... please do feel free to show us.
 
Jiro said:
That statement is there because of home-schooled students and the fact that most schools are not accredited.

and I've already shown you 2 major accreditation agencies and the proof was substantial enough to back my statement that most schools are not accredited. If you have any source that dispute otherwise.... please do feel free to show us.
Click to expand...

I have :) You are focusing on 2 of many accrediting agencies.

Oh look....UC has the same policy.

How would a student attending a non-accredited school become eligible for UC?

The student could become eligible by examination alone or be considered for admission by exception.
Click to expand...

University of California - Eligibility & selection

Admission.......by........exception..... :cool2:
 
TXgolfer said:
Part 1: Whoa whoa whoa whoa!!!!! Can we make that State please? :lol:
Click to expand...
I thought about that. But realistically, if they want to get federal money, they'll probably have to establish some national minimum standards.

Mind you, I'm saying IF they don't want their $$$ to depend on local property taxes. If that's the case, something's gotta give.

Part 2: Distractions at home, less study at home, teaching to the test and and too many new subjects/topics required (ie. Political Correctness). That is my guess anyway.
Click to expand...
Good points.
 
Back
Top