CI--Deaf or Hearing?

[faire_jour]

Wirelessly posted

Once again, a thread discussing cultural issues has gone the route of silly. What a shame that people cannot discuss the issue with intelligence and logic, instead of getting so defensive about whether a 5 year old child is capable of making such a distinction. Really, all parents think their children are geniuses, but the reality is that very, very few really are.

the point is not that grendel's child is a genuis, but that she is being raised with the language and culture of the Deaf community. She is being raised as a Deaf child.

 

[AlleyCat]

the point is not that grendel's child is a genuis, but that she is being raised with the language and culture of the Deaf community. She is being raised as a Deaf child.

^^ She is being raised with the language and culture of the Deaf community, and as a Deaf child.

Totally agree. However, I disagree that Li-Li ALREADY self-identifies as Deaf. It's too complex a concept at 5 years old.

 

[jillio]

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the point is not that grendel's child is a genuis, but that she is being raised with the language and culture of the Deaf community. She is being raised as a Deaf child.

In a home with hearing values and traditions. Duh. And that still does not mean that she can identify as Deaf without an understanding of the difference between deaf and Deaf.

 

[faire_jour]

Wirelessly posted

Everyone--Instead of identity I think we should be applauding the hearing parents who CHOOSE to raise their Deaf or HOH child in such a way he/she can later devolop a Deaf identity and understanding of the culture and lanuage.

rather than tearing them down and saying no matter what they do their child is not "Deaf enough" because they themselves are hearing!

i agree!

 

[GrendelQ]

First of all, Grendel, CSign ... you guys need to back off, seriously.

MY personal experience:

I went to a Deaf institute, my mom was an interpreter, everyone in my family signed, i had deaf people sleep over at my house, i slept over at theirs, etc etc etc... Even had a Deaf girlfriend in high school.

Had a Deaf daughter, with a Deaf girlfriend at the time, dated CAPTIAL Deaf girlfriends afterwards....

Before I had my daughter, I joined a Deaf softball team, went across the nation playing tournaments with other Deaf teams. This still continues to this day.

I never FOUND the "Deaf" in me till i was about 26-27, after all the things I listed above. (I am 29 now.)

You can't decide for the child their identity they choose.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and pull a GrendelQ here.

Hell, you can't even determine your child's sexual preferences at 5. You really can't go out and say ... "my kid's straight because s/he is flirting members of the opposite sex at her age." Then all of a sudden at 13 your kid goes out and tell you "Hey, I am not straight."

Come on, PFH. Where do you come off saying that I need to back off? I posted that my daughter is Deaf and wears CIs and answered Shoshana's question by saying that wearing an assistive hearing device doesn't negate someone's ability to identify as Deaf.

Jillio's the one obsessing a bit about my daughter's identity and dragging out a long involved argument against my daughter being considered Deaf. Frankly, I don't give a damn if she thinks my daughter has it all wrong about her Chinese/Deaf self identity -- she can go ahead and post that Li is ... I don't know ... Danish and Hearing all she likes. Doesn't really change anything, does it? My daughter still considers herself Chinese and Deaf and claiming that means something important to her. Just because I don't share those affiliations with her doesn't mean I'm going to deny her pride in them or put a damper on her exploration of either.

You say your daughter is Deaf, too. Is that your definition, or hers? And yet, according to Jillio's rules, she's not 25, so she can't enter the fold yet, can she? Fake ID?

 

[faire_jour]

Wirelessly posted

There is a lot of drama here

Nothing unusual. Always happens with hearing parents.

yes, YOU are the hearing parent you are so clearly refering to!

 

[jillio]

^^ She is being raised with the language and culture of the Deaf community, and as a Deaf child.

Totally agree. However, I disagree that Li-Li ALREADY self-identifies as Deaf. It's too complex a concept at 5 years old.

Exactly. Even a Deaf of Deaf cannot identify at that age. And they are being raised with the language, the values, and the traditions of the Deaf. All they know is that they are the same as their parents, and that the home environment is consistent with their needs.

A child being raised with Deaf language and values, but in a hearing home, still understands that they are different from their immediate family, and therefore, early on it is necessary to explain to them the difference between deaf and hearing. But the concept of Deaf is simply beyond their understanding.

Most Deaf of Deaf define deafness as being people who sign and hearing as people who speak. That has very little to do with the identity of Deaf. Deaf of hearing will also rely on that definition at an early age. But, my son had the advantage of extended family that signed, a totally bilingual home, and a bi-bi school. Plus we all spoke. So he had a bit of a different definition of "deaf". To him, it was people in his immediate world, and hearing were people not in his immediate world. That is a bit closer to the way a Deaf of Deaf child will see deafness. But still, he did not have a concept of the cultural aspects until he was much older and had developed the cognitive ability to grasp complicated concepts.

 

[posts from hell]

Come on, PFH. Where do you come off saying that I need to back off? I posted that my daughter is Deaf and wears CIs and answered Shoshana's question by saying that wearing an assistive hearing device doesn't negate someone's ability to identify as Deaf.

Jillio's the one obsessing a bit about my daughter's identity and dragging out a long involved argument against my daughter being considered Deaf. Frankly, I don't give a damn if she thinks my daughter has it all wrong about her Chinese/Deaf self identity -- she can go ahead and post that Li is ... I don't know ... Danish and Hearing all she likes. Doesn't really change anything, does it? My daughter still considers herself Chinese and Deaf and claiming that means something important to her. Just because I don't share those affiliations with her doesn't mean I'm going to deny her pride in them or put a damper on her exploration of either.

You say your daughter is Deaf, too. Is that your definition, or hers? And yet, according to Jillio's rules, she's not 25, so she can't enter the fold yet, can she? Fake ID?

I did, and do you have a problem with that?

And actually if you REALLY don't give a damn, shut up.

 

[jillio]

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yes, YOU are the hearing parent you are so clearly refering to!

Go away, FJ. I don't see anyone here telling you they wish you were their parent.

 

[Shoshana]

Come on, PFH. Where do you come off saying that I need to back off? I posted that my daughter is Deaf and wears CIs and answered Shoshana's question by saying that wearing an assistive hearing device doesn't negate someone's ability to identify as Deaf.

Jillio's the one obsessing a bit about my daughter's identity and dragging out a long involved argument against my daughter being considered Deaf. Frankly, I don't give a damn if she thinks my daughter has it all wrong about her Chinese/Deaf self identity -- she can go ahead and post that Li is ... I don't know ... Danish and Hearing all she likes. Doesn't really change anything, does it? My daughter still considers herself Chinese and Deaf and claiming that means something important to her. Just because I don't share those affiliations with her doesn't mean I'm going to deny her pride in them or put a damper on her exploration of either.

You say your daughter is Deaf, too. Is that your definition, or hers? And yet, according to Jillio's rules, she's not 25, so she can't enter the fold yet, can she? Fake ID?

I understand what you are saying, I understand both sides.

I was diagnosed at 5-6 years old, I wore huge hearing aids with antenas, and bulky FM system on my hip. My parents raised my strictly oral, and still no one in my family signs.

Point is, it was hard for me that I was not "deaf" but I was not quite "hearing" either. I grew up feeling that I didnt fit in anywhere. Now I can fit in both, Hearing and Deaf. But growing up, that "self identity" can be very important to a childs self essteme

 

[faire_jour]

Wirelessly posted

Trying to make a child that can't hear use their hearing for understanding and communication. Forcing a child to use their weakest sense to make sense of their world when they could more easily use their strongest sense just did not jive for me. Maybe it was because I already had a strong background in psychology.

I wish more people thought as you do.

you mean exactly the same way grendel does?

 

[jillio]

I understand what you are saying, I understand both sides.

I was diagnosed at 5-6 years old, I wore huge hearing aids with antenas, and bulky FM system on my hip. My parents raised my strictly oral, and still no one in my family signs.

Point is, it was hard for me that I was not "deaf" but I was not quite "hearing" either. I grew up feeling that I didnt fit in anywhere. Now I can fit in both, Hearing and Deaf. But growing up, that "self identity" can be very important to a childs self essteme

I agree. And for that self esteem to develop, a child needs to be exposed to peers who are just like them, and also to adults who are just like them. But self esteem and identity are really two separate concepts. Self esteem involves the belief that one is okay just as one is. An identity is more of a choice as to what values are important and what lifestyle one embraces.

 

[GrendelQ]

^^ She is being raised with the language and culture of the Deaf community, and as a Deaf child.

Totally agree. However, I disagree that Li-Li ALREADY self-identifies as Deaf. It's too complex a concept at 5 years old.

I guess you'd say there's not much basis then, for Deaf children -- or I guess you might correct it to deaf children -- to be interacting in schools together, since they aren't yet forming self-identities based on their shared language and customs until their 20s.

 

[AlleyCat]

I guess you'd say there's not much basis then, for Deaf children -- or I guess you might correct it to deaf children -- to be interacting in schools together, since they aren't yet forming self-identities based on their shared language and customs until their 20s.

No, you don't get to rephrase what I said.

I had plenty of interaction with other kids who signed. Or were learning to speak. Or whatnot. Same as Li-Li. It was fun to have kids to communicate with.

Does that mean I realized, at 5, that I was "Deaf" ? nah.

 

[jillio]

Wirelessly posted



you mean exactly the same way grendel does?

Grendel is beginning to get it, but when she jumps in to defend people like you just because they are another hearing parent of a deaf child, she gets distracted and confused. Her defense of you is an indication that she has not solidified her philosophy yet.

Now, get back on topic or get lost.

 

[GrendelQ]

I did, and do you have a problem with that?

And actually if you REALLY don't give a damn, shut up.

Nope. There are many others here whose input I value and whose thoughts I do care about.

So tell me, PFH, at what age did your daughter define herself as Deaf?

 

[posts from hell]

Nope. There are many others here whose input I value and whose thoughts I do care about.

So tell me, PFH, at what age did your daughter define herself as Deaf?

She was born into a Deaf family, and world.

 

[faire_jour]

Wirelessly posted

Wirelessly posted



the point is not that grendel's child is a genuis, but that she is being raised with the language and culture of the Deaf community. She is being raised as a Deaf child.

In a home with hearing values and traditions. Duh. And that still does not mean that she can identify as Deaf without an understanding of the difference between deaf and Deaf.

you have never been in her home or seen her with her child. You have no idea WHAT traditions and cultural mores she is raising her child with!

 

[posts from hell]

Wirelessly posted



you mean exactly the same way grendel does?

You mean exactly the opposite way Faire Jour does?

 

[jillio]

No, you don't get to rephrase what I said.

I had plenty of interaction with other kids who signed. Or were learning to speak. Or whatnot. Same as Li-Li. It was fun to have kids to communicate with.

Does that mean I realized, at 5, that I was "Deaf" ? nah.

And neither did any of the other kids. It is beyond me why people are arguing that a 5 year old is capable of understanding complex concepts that even many adults are never able to understand. Just being argumentative, I guess.