Church in Rosemount, MN
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apathrev
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CyberRed said:
Judas was a hypocrite, and Paul was a pharisee. Martin Luther was a heretic.
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...and Judas killed himself and went to hell, Paul repented and became a Christian, and Martin Luther was only a heretic to the Catholic Church, not to God. Don't leave out "the rest of the story."cental34 said:
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apathrev
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Reba said:...and Judas killed himself and went to hell, Paul repented and became a Christian, and Martin Luther was only a heretic to the Catholic Church, not to God. Don't leave out "the rest of the story."
How do you know Judas went to hell? Paul also denied Jesus 3 times and cut off a Roman soldier's ear...after becoming a follower of Christ. In Martin Luther's age, the Catholic Church was viewed as the supreme authority of God, much like you think the modern church is.
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Because he never really accepted Jesus Christ as his Savior. Judas let Satan enter and take control.cental34 said:
That wasn't Paul.
As I said, Luther was a heretic to the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church and God are not synonymous. The modern church is the body of Christ; Jesus Christ Himself is the Head. That means Christ, not the church, is the supreme authority.
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apathrev
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Reba said:
We are not told this. We're only told that Judas returned the 30 pieces of silver, was overcome with remorse, and killed himself.
Excuse me. I was confusing him for Peter, the person whom Jesus said he would build his church upon.
God was the head of the Catholic church back then, or so it was claimed, much like any modern Christian would claim today, as they believe their modern Christian worldview is the correct one.
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God was the head of the Catholic church back then ? God was NEVER the head of the Catholic church and there never will. Jesus Christ is the Body of church and He is the Head of the church.
We are to worship Him through the Body of Christ, not Catholic Church.
We are to worship Him through the Body of Christ, not Catholic Church.
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The Body of Christ:
Colossians 1:24
"Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church.."
The foundation stone of Christ:
Ephesians 2:20-22
"And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit."
The Head of Christ:
Ephesians 5:23
"For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body."
Colossians 1:24
"Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church.."
The foundation stone of Christ:
Ephesians 2:20-22
"And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit."
The Head of Christ:
Ephesians 5:23
"For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body."
"God was NEVER the head of the Catholic church and there never will. Jesus Christ is the Body of church and He is the Head of the church."
Jesus Christ was the founder of the Catholic Church. Jesus is part of the Trinity, id est, God HAS ALWAYS BEEN and ALWAYS WILL BE the head of the Church. Jesus also promised His Church that it will always be under His protection.
Matthew 16:18-19
"And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
Matthew 18:15-18
""If your brother sins (against you), go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother. If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that 'every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.' If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector. Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
The Church has authority on Earth
Luke 10:16
"Whoever listens to you listens to me. Whoever rejects you rejects me. And whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me."
Christians are to be united in His Church
Romans 16:17-18
"I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who create dissensions and obstacles, in opposition to the teaching that you learned; avoid them. For such people do not serve our Lord Christ but their own appetites, and by fair and flattering speech they deceive the hearts of the innocent."
1 Corinthians 1:10
"I urge you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree in what you say, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and in the same purpose."
The Church is the Body of Christ
John 15:1-11
"I am the true vine, and my Father is the vine grower. He takes away every branch in me that does not bear fruit, and everyone that does he prunes so that it bears more fruit. You are already pruned because of the word that I spoke to you. Remain in me, as I remain in you. Just as a branch cannot bear fruit on its own unless it remains on the vine, so neither can you unless you remain in me. I am the vine, you are the branches. Whoever remains in me and I in him will bear much fruit, because without me you can do nothing. Anyone who does not remain in me will be thrown out like a branch and wither; people will gather them and throw them into a fire and they will be burned. If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask for whatever you want and it will be done for you. By this is my Father glorified, that you bear much fruit and become my disciples. As the Father loves me, so I also love you. Remain in my love. If you keep my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and remain in his love. I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and your joy may be complete."
In Acts 9:1-6
"Now Saul, still breathing murderous threats against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest and asked him for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, that, if he should find any men or women who belonged to the Way, he might bring them back to Jerusalem in chains. On his journey, as he was nearing Damascus, a light from the sky suddenly flashed around him. He fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?" He said, "Who are you, sir?" The reply came, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. Now get up and go into the city and you will be told what you must do."
Jesus tells Saul (in the above) that Saul is persecuting Jesus.
Jesus also warns His Church it would always be persecuted and warned His followers against false prophets who would try to spread dissention among the Christians and lead them against the Faith.
Jesus Christ was the founder of the Catholic Church. Jesus is part of the Trinity, id est, God HAS ALWAYS BEEN and ALWAYS WILL BE the head of the Church. Jesus also promised His Church that it will always be under His protection.
Matthew 16:18-19
"And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
Matthew 18:15-18
""If your brother sins (against you), go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother. If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that 'every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.' If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector. Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
The Church has authority on Earth
Luke 10:16
"Whoever listens to you listens to me. Whoever rejects you rejects me. And whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me."
Christians are to be united in His Church
Romans 16:17-18
"I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who create dissensions and obstacles, in opposition to the teaching that you learned; avoid them. For such people do not serve our Lord Christ but their own appetites, and by fair and flattering speech they deceive the hearts of the innocent."
1 Corinthians 1:10
"I urge you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree in what you say, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and in the same purpose."
The Church is the Body of Christ
John 15:1-11
"I am the true vine, and my Father is the vine grower. He takes away every branch in me that does not bear fruit, and everyone that does he prunes so that it bears more fruit. You are already pruned because of the word that I spoke to you. Remain in me, as I remain in you. Just as a branch cannot bear fruit on its own unless it remains on the vine, so neither can you unless you remain in me. I am the vine, you are the branches. Whoever remains in me and I in him will bear much fruit, because without me you can do nothing. Anyone who does not remain in me will be thrown out like a branch and wither; people will gather them and throw them into a fire and they will be burned. If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask for whatever you want and it will be done for you. By this is my Father glorified, that you bear much fruit and become my disciples. As the Father loves me, so I also love you. Remain in my love. If you keep my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and remain in his love. I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and your joy may be complete."
In Acts 9:1-6
"Now Saul, still breathing murderous threats against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest and asked him for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, that, if he should find any men or women who belonged to the Way, he might bring them back to Jerusalem in chains. On his journey, as he was nearing Damascus, a light from the sky suddenly flashed around him. He fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?" He said, "Who are you, sir?" The reply came, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. Now get up and go into the city and you will be told what you must do."
Jesus tells Saul (in the above) that Saul is persecuting Jesus.
Jesus also warns His Church it would always be persecuted and warned His followers against false prophets who would try to spread dissention among the Christians and lead them against the Faith.
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1 Corinthians 3:16
"Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?"
1 Corinthians 6:19
"What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?"
2 Corinthians 6:16
"And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people."
It sums up pretty much that it is the Christ's Body, not the buildin' of church itself.
"Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?"
1 Corinthians 6:19
"What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?"
2 Corinthians 6:16
"And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people."
It sums up pretty much that it is the Christ's Body, not the buildin' of church itself.
Luke 10:16
"Whoever listens to you listens to me. Whoever rejects you rejects me. And whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me."
Pretty much sums up that to reject the Church rejects Christ.
And who said anything about buildings???????????
"Whoever listens to you listens to me. Whoever rejects you rejects me. And whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me."
Pretty much sums up that to reject the Church rejects Christ.
And who said anything about buildings???????????
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You posted, sayin' "Jesus Christ was the founder of the Catholic Church. Jesus is part of the Trinity, id est, God HAS ALWAYS BEEN and ALWAYS WILL BE the head of the Church. Jesus also promised His Church that it will always be under His protection."
Jesus Christ was NEVER the founder of the Catholic Church. Catholic Church is a buildin', not the Body of Christ. Catholic Church was NOT the body of Christ.
Jesus Christ was NEVER the founder of the Catholic Church. Catholic Church is a buildin', not the Body of Christ. Catholic Church was NOT the body of Christ.
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Matthew 16:18
"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
Jesus said, "You are Peter (Greek word Petros means "little piece of rock"), and upon this rock (Greek word petra means "bedrock" or foundation rock) I will build my church; and the gates of hell (death) shall not prevail (win) against it (the church).
Who is the Rock (Petra), the foundation bedrock? Jesus is the Rock. The church is built upon Him. Even Peter says it is Jesus:
1 Peter 2:3-8
3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious. 4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, 5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. 6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. 7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
Jesus said, "You are Peter (Greek word Petros means "little piece of rock"), and upon this rock (Greek word petra means "bedrock" or foundation rock) I will build my church; and the gates of hell (death) shall not prevail (win) against it (the church).
Who is the Rock (Petra), the foundation bedrock? Jesus is the Rock. The church is built upon Him. Even Peter says it is Jesus:
1 Peter 2:3-8
3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious. 4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, 5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. 6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. 7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
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"The church" is the group of all born again Christians, past, present, and future, all over the world. Jesus Christ is the Head of that group of Christians. "The church" is not a denomination or religion.Daft said:
Local "churches" are the smaller groups of believers within "the church" who hold meetings together in geographical locations (town, city, village, neighborhood) on a regular basis (weekly or more often) to worship and praise God, study His Word, and encourage one another. They meet in "church" buildings, tents, rented buildings, houses, trailers, etc. Members of a local group are referred to collectively as a church congregation.
Some religious denominations use the word "church" in their names but that is just part of their label for identification.
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That doesn't even make sense. Why would Jesus build something so important on something as weak as a human sinner instead on Himself, Lord of all? Why would He build His church on a pebble instead of a boulder?Daft said:
No, Jesus is the Rock of Ages, the Cornerstone, our Firm Foundation.
It is wrong to focus spiritually on a man instead of Jesus.
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