C.i?

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In my opinion, the school to put the children is great risk. School can influence anything to our children, but not pay attention what happening. The environment greater is chance hurt child’ future. What hurt am I talking about? The child is against the law, kill themselves, and not indemnity on his/her own. Many things of out there on world are danger for us.

I value your opinion. Have you ever thought about how the parents could make an impact on those children too?

Enough for me says on this tend. I am just share with you what I learned from out there. Some are ugly and clean because we raised with them.
:type:

Thank you very much for sharing your experiences! I agree with you about how much struggles humans go through!

Let's type together! :type:
 
Originally posted by DeafAlwAyZRawKs
you might be right, i am uneducated, but look what the CI is doing to our community, look at us... most children at my school has CI you kno why, PARENTS scared to handle a deaf baby..
accept who we are, deaf. PERIOD.....

You said you are uneducated. Everyone is...even those deaf children's parents. Why don't you work on educating those parents?

Those parents don't have to accept that their child is deaf. They have to accept that there are methods that they would have to adapt to share their own lovings and understandings along with.
 
Originally posted by DeafAlwAyZRawKs
you might be right, i am uneducated, but look what the CI is doing to our community, look at us... most children at my school has CI you kno why, PARENTS scared to handle a deaf baby..
accept who we are, deaf. PERIOD.....

Parents are scared to handle a deaf child?

Actually, they just want to give their children the most they can get out of their lives.

They're just being good parents by making efforts to make their children fit in the real world.

Most children at your school has CI?

So what?

That's none of your business.

CI is not going to make your community fade. There will be changes made to it.

Even if you get a CI, you are still deaf, no matter what.

You have to accept them for who they are. You can't go around changing people back to deaf simply because you don't like it.

Everybody can be whoever they want to be.
 
Try inventing a type of skin coloring device that is designed to convert all different races to only whites just so there won't be racism. :p
 
true true, i'll take those words, but im not a racist, but it just offends me that CI is a machine to make people HEARING, whats the POINT? of doing that?
 
Originally posted by DeafAlwAyZRawKs
true true, i'll take those words, but im not a racist, but it just offends me that CI is a machine to make people HEARING, whats the POINT? of doing that?

Nobody's calling you a racist.

But it appears that you are bigoted in some directions.

Yes, CI is a machine. But it is also a machine that is built to enhance people's hearing.

But they will NOT make people hearing. Cochlear Implants are not advertised to make deaf people hearing.

They are advertised to enhance or assist people's hearing.

The point is to help them with their lives, and if they get to learn how to use them. Especially as children, they will be able to develop their language skills quickier than the average deaf child without the implant.

The better your skills are, the better the chances are of getting better jobs.
 
Originally posted by DeafAlwAyZRawKs
true true, i'll take those words, but im not a racist, but it just offends me that CI is a machine to make people HEARING, whats the POINT? of doing that?


It offends you???? Why??? Why are you taking it so personally???

You need to get over it and move on.
 
Originally posted by DeafAlwAyZRawKs
true true, i'll take those words, but im not a racist, but it just offends me that CI is a machine to make people HEARING, whats the POINT? of doing that?

Actually, what I was talking about was the racism issues we have had in the last few centuries has been occuring for so long.

My example was an idea to prove that no one would even attempt to do this idea of painting themselves white to get rid of the racism. I was hoping that some of you would see that cochlear implants do the similar way. It's everyone's choice to decide if they want to "paint themselves white."

Cochlear Implants are adveristed to give deaf people, with no chances to use an amplified hearing aids, the chances to experience "useful" sounds.

The improvments are continuing with attempts to fully restore hearings to "normal" inside deaf people with severe cochlear problems. Of right now, it's not possible for a full deaf to function as a complete hearing person. It will be very long time for the technology to catch up.

No one knows how to replicant nerves throughout the body. That is why it is more difficult. I think with this stem cell cloning occurring, it may be closer than many of doctors thought possible.

I still would stress that there is no need to panic if you are afraid of the dying breeds of Deaf people. I do believe that deaf people would still be around when I am 99 yrs old. :D

I do not think that the cochlear implant or any hearing aids devices would contribute as factors to "wipe" out the deaf culture. Just move on and let people do what they want.

Look at me...people would say that I'm one of the last cowboys of the dying wild wild west cowboys. :P
 
Originally posted by Banjo
Nobody's calling you a racist.

But it appears that you are bigoted in some directions.

Yes, CI is a machine. But it is also a machine that is built to enhance people's hearing.

But they will NOT make people hearing. Cochlear Implants are not advertised to make deaf people hearing.

They are advertised to enhance or assist people's hearing.

The point is to help them with their lives, and if they get to learn how to use them. Especially as children, they will be able to develop their language skills quickier than the average deaf child without the implant.

The better your skills are, the better the chances are of getting better jobs.

Only thing I disagree is that implants do not help deaf children to improve their skills quicker than average deaf children without the implants.

It all depends on the parents, teachers, speech therapists, family members, internet (if this kid is smart enough to use a mouse), and many other educators.
 
Especially as children, they will be able to develop their language skills quickier than the average deaf child without the implant.
Banjo....WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You're confusing language with speech (a VERY common mistake)
Deaf kids with CIs may have better speech skills, but the gross majority of deaf with CI still have significent language delays.As a matter of fact MOST oral deaf people have significent language delays!!!!!!!
Believe it or not a Deaf kid without a CI may have more sophisiticated language skills then a kid with CI who can speak really well!
Parents are scared to handle a deaf child?
Actually, they just want to give their children the most they can get out of their lives.They're just being good parents by making efforts to make their children fit in the real world.
Parents aren't nessarly scared of deaf kids, but...how can I put this? Many of them don't accept that their child is deaf. Too many of them wanted a designer child and when their kids were born deaf, they were attracted to the "normality" of oralism. You have NO idea how many times I've heard "Oh I wish my daughter was healthy and "normal" or "perfect" Many of the adults confuse possibilties with perfection and so throw their dreams away when their child turns out to be deaf or otherwise disabled! They buy into the stereotype that one disabilty, automatically means that you're globally disabled and that a child with disabilties will never amount to anything!
Parents have to realize that it's best to give their children all the opertunties possible rather then limiting them. I don't give a shit if someone chooses to give their child a CI, but I get EXTREMELY upset when someone refuses to expose a deaf child to ASL/sign...the only reason why ASL isn't too popular is b/c it's considered not a "real" language and speshal needs! If it wasn't considered speshal needs then we'd have involved parents who Sign!
 
Originally posted by deafdyke Parents have to realize that it's best to give their children all the opertunties possible rather then limiting them. I don't give a shit if someone chooses to give their child a CI, but I get EXTREMELY upset when someone refuses to expose a deaf child to ASL/sign...the only reason why ASL isn't too popular is b/c it's considered not a "real" language and speshal needs! If it wasn't considered speshal needs then we'd have involved parents who Sign! [/B]

Everyone is arguing about different kids. This thread keeps going in circles.
 
Hey SilenceGold. What an interesting choosing the word for SilenceGold.

Close or Open mind through around the Deaf communities are not show equal or respect in what I have seen. Even the one thing, I wish the Deaf communities are doing and something to prevent that twist up the Deaf culture. For example; my girlfriend is attending the college to take ASL. Even, she is Deaf and sign in SEE and some PSE. When she got chances see me and then she excited to sign communicate better with me. I puzzled at her and asked what she trying to says. She signs trash and then I asked her, “Me throw purse your in can”. She learned from the college and some not those rights sign. Are we allowing that happen? Other one that bother me is “Deaf program”, “Deaf Education Dept”, “Deaf Public School Program”, and many different where I went 4 different states public school. I don’t see the big change with sign language. The only bother me that should set as “Deaf Education State” that run with our tax money. I asked myself that public school depend on the funds and gives to Deaf program received the fund money left over? It just bothers me a lot.

You are right about educating children and include the hearing people. I have talk with several people that graduated from deaf school. In here of Oklahoma School for the Deaf, they are not happy because they discover when they enroll the college. The college responds to different deaf students and different reaction. The college told them to do all over the basic general: Math, Reading, and English. Even, deaf student graduated from deaf school with good GPA. I have know that high percent in several years ago that average 4th reading levels with graduated. Even, I met several deaf college student transfers to public/regular University or college told them to take test on basic general field to pass the college levels. Also, my friend attends to one oral school for whole life and not knows about Deaf culture. Until my friend went to university, friend starts learn about Deaf culture and sign too.

I am getting my cochlear implant pretty soon. Honest with you, I am not that excite because I want hearing aids instead of implant. Yes, I wish my family do sign. The two different problems; my parents are divorced and remarried. It is turn split two families become three families in my life. Only my side family still signs by “ABC” and basic sign but not like a regular converse person to person. I normal use a voice with my families instead using the finger spelling. I have no problem with using my voice and sign. Other two sides’ families carry guilty about not using sign language. My point about my other side is focus on their own good money instead family value. Right now, I have a deaf girlfriend and her mother’s family does sign. It is kind of challenge; they willing to sign, communicate, and write on paper to ensure that my girlfriend understood what they were talking about. Beside my girlfriend, she has a deaf brother too.

In my community of here state is weak and not like East Coast where among Deaf Communities from what I knows. I am not going to get cochlear implant, if my state deaf community likes a rock. In my opinion that my state starts grow with cochlear implant than the deaf community because I meet the people. I asked what they are doing for living. They earned from money with SSI. I asked, “Have you find any luck job that you application position?” They answer my question, “I want stay with SSI and not looking for job.”, “I don’t want to loose the SSI, if I have a work.”, “I have SSI for 20 years. I am smart to saving money for wash my clothes once a month because I have 35 days of each clothe.” Many answers are different that I got and not try harder to find job as we can do it.

There are shared I want to say. I wish here that state to close deaf campus due not well education enough. I don’t like to see hearing parent and deaf child separate because of deaf school provide the resident dorm. Parents always take doctor advice in primary instead research more about “Deaf Child”. What kind research the parent should find out? Is the family history having Deaf? The deaf child wills success in the future with sign language? How can we or the deaf child improve with English communicate skills in writing? Unless the deaf child wants cochlear implant, child can decide themselves to talk with parent around nine or ten years old. Because I met the cochlear implant people, they say to their parent, “Why do you want me have cochlear implant after I born?” Will the parents are answering their question when the deaf child asked that kind of investigation?

Most of those negative I have says because here that state are lazy to me that I meet. I am 22 years old and move from different states. Current college student at University, study in field as business. I am doing for myself and get all cochlear implant on my head this year. I am doing purpose for college, future family, people, and many purposes. However; I don’t believe to put the deaf child born to get cochlear implant. Why am I saying this? Because they can lose who they are, I watch the movie called, “Sound and Fury.” It is interesting hot topic about cochlear implant verse deaf, but they are in same family members. I saw one scene movie/tape that girl use cochlear implant. The girl doesn’t understand deaf girl sign language. The girl asked the mother what the deaf girl doing. Mother respond, “That is sign language and deaf culture doing this communicate to other communicate.” The girl starts confused about sign language like she asked herself that she needs learn sign language too? It just interests know about that one.

Well enough for me to says, because I don’t like negative about deaf culture. Since I rise with the Deaf world, In Oklahoma state is different where I used to live. I moved from Texas, but I don’t have that trouble like here Oklahoma. See what I am saying other negative. :ugh:

NEGATIVE :rifle:
 
Originally posted by deafdyke
Banjo....WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You're confusing language with speech (a VERY common mistake)
Deaf kids with CIs may have better speech skills, but the gross majority of deaf with CI still have significent language delays.As a matter of fact MOST oral deaf people have significent language delays!!!!!!!

Everyone with a language has a limition of their languages. Those people who gives out speeches are the ones who has the least limition. Ones who are too shy to socialize has the most severe limition. It has nothing to do with disability, race, color, or if you chew bubble gum.


Believe it or not a Deaf kid without a CI may have more sophisiticated language skills then a kid with CI who can speak really well!

Sure, me being raised in public school might be excellent in English grammar but awful in french structure known as ASL. You made a point.

Here's my point, you may be raised in a state deaf school and have excellent ASL usage. Saddly, you would end up with a bad english grammar skill. However, that can be improved after you're done with school. That are what colleges, special trainings, parents, off-site teachers, internet, and several other educators are for. Just because you are limited doesn't mean you CANNOT DO IT.

Parents aren't nessarly scared of deaf kids, but...how can I put this? Many of them don't accept that their child is deaf. Too many of them wanted a designer child and when their kids were born deaf, they were attracted to the "normality" of oralism. You have NO idea how many times I've heard "Oh I wish my daughter was healthy and "normal" or "perfect" Many of the adults confuse possibilties with perfection and so throw their dreams away when their child turns out to be deaf or otherwise disabled! They buy into the stereotype that one disabilty, automatically means that you're globally disabled and that a child with disabilties will never amount to anything!

You mean, they wanted "Normal and Healthy" babies. Sure, if your baby was missing a limb..would you consider it normal? Of course not. If the baby was missing a voice box..would you consider it normal? Of course..you might use your deaf experiences as a background to help you cope with this baby.

Most of hearing parents don't have that experience. :(

Parents have to realize that it's best to give their children all the opertunties possible rather then limiting them. I don't give a shit if someone chooses to give their child a CI, but I get EXTREMELY upset when someone refuses to expose a deaf child to ASL/sign...the only reason why ASL isn't too popular is b/c it's considered not a "real" language and speshal needs! If it wasn't considered speshal needs then we'd have involved parents who Sign!

It is just like white parents adopting a black child. Those parents end up living in a white community. Should the rest of the blacks in america flame those parents for refusing to expose a black child to a black culture?

You would need to be more specific on what is the defination of "language." ASL is a language. I don't know where you got your idea that it's not a "real" language. Just like an another language, it's not requiring much special needs for someone to learn a new language.
 
Originally posted by Cain Marko
Everyone is arguing about different kids. This thread keeps going in circles.

That's why I made the posts to keep everything rolling in a straight way. Thank you for your insights. No one made you to stay around here. :p
 
Originally posted by ideafspy
Hey SilenceGold. What an interesting choosing the word for SilenceGold.

Thanks!

Close or Open mind through around the Deaf communities are not show equal or respect in what I have seen. Even the one thing, I wish the Deaf communities are doing and something to prevent that twist up the Deaf culture. For example; my girlfriend is attending the college to take ASL. Even, she is Deaf and sign in SEE and some PSE. When she got chances see me and then she excited to sign communicate better with me. I puzzled at her and asked what she trying to says. She signs trash and then I asked her, “Me throw purse your in can”. She learned from the college and some not those rights sign. Are we allowing that happen? Other one that bother me is “Deaf program”, “Deaf Education Dept”, “Deaf Public School Program”, and many different where I went 4 different states public school. I don’t see the big change with sign language. The only bother me that should set as “Deaf Education State” that run with our tax money. I asked myself that public school depend on the funds and gives to Deaf program received the fund money left over? It just bothers me a lot.

Yes it bothers me a lot. It is just the same as the US government wasting their money on college and high school funds by requiring all english speaking citizens to learn spanish or french as a second language. In some colleges, it's more than those two above languages. Why aren't we teaching those foreign people, who are moving into USA, english?

I still get baffled over it. :( For example, I bought a new VCR and it only came with a spanish manual. WTF? I took it back and asked for an english version and they said that I would have to order it from the VCR company. Another WTF? Even stranger it was Walmart. :(

You are right about educating children and include the hearing people. I have talk with several people that graduated from deaf school. In here of Oklahoma School for the Deaf, they are not happy because they discover when they enroll the college. The college responds to different deaf students and different reaction. The college told them to do all over the basic general: Math, Reading, and English. Even, deaf student graduated from deaf school with good GPA. I have know that high percent in several years ago that average 4th reading levels with graduated. Even, I met several deaf college student transfers to public/regular University or college told them to take test on basic general field to pass the college levels. Also, my friend attends to one oral school for whole life and not knows about Deaf culture. Until my friend went to university, friend starts learn about Deaf culture and sign too.

That's what education means. :)

The children should be taught as early as possible on as much as things possible. I think that Internet in schools will make a huge impact on our children's education. I can't wait to see how young my children would be when they whup me in Quake. :p

I am getting my cochlear implant pretty soon. Honest with you, I am not that excite because I want hearing aids instead of implant. Yes, I wish my family do sign. The two different problems; my parents are divorced and remarried. It is turn split two families become three families in my life. Only my side family still signs by “ABC” and basic sign but not like a regular converse person to person. I normal use a voice with my families instead using the finger spelling. I have no problem with using my voice and sign. Other two sides’ families carry guilty about not using sign language. My point about my other side is focus on their own good money instead family value. Right now, I have a deaf girlfriend and her mother’s family does sign. It is kind of challenge; they willing to sign, communicate, and write on paper to ensure that my girlfriend understood what they were talking about. Beside my girlfriend, she has a deaf brother too.

I respect your decision. Yes, hearing aids can be less complicated than getting a Cochlear Implant. My parents are divorced but they haven't remarried. Lisa's and my families are very similar to yours. I do oral and sign at the same time. Several of my father's side family members do share the gulit of not learning sign language. They rely on Lisa and my oral skills instead. Yes, I understand about "good money" as being "the easy way."

I would like to see what would be the reasons for you to be choosing to wear the Cochlear Implant?

In my community of here state is weak and not like East Coast where among Deaf Communities from what I knows. I am not going to get cochlear implant, if my state deaf community likes a rock. In my opinion that my state starts grow with cochlear implant than the deaf community because I meet the people. I asked what they are doing for living. They earned from money with SSI. I asked, “Have you find any luck job that you application position?” They answer my question, “I want stay with SSI and not looking for job.”, “I don’t want to loose the SSI, if I have a work.”, “I have SSI for 20 years. I am smart to saving money for wash my clothes once a month because I have 35 days of each clothe.” Many answers are different that I got and not try harder to find job as we can do it.

Actually I think that the East states seems more better than the rest of the USA is because of the density population. I also use SSI too. I'm not one of those who slack it off. I've had few jobs in the last 2 years. Right now I am looking for a computer position. I do understand how it can irriate you when you hear of deaf people taking advantage of the tax payers. I even got upset when I heard that there was a deaf person here in my state saying that they draw 3 different SSI checks for 3 different fake names. Lisa and I are married and we didn't find that fair. We do not agree that it is worth breaking the laws just for extra money. I was raised to believe that you have to work hard to earn the money. But I still am on the SSI right now.

There are shared I want to say. I wish here that state to close deaf campus due not well education enough. I don’t like to see hearing parent and deaf child separate because of deaf school provide the resident dorm. Parents always take doctor advice in primary instead research more about “Deaf Child”. What kind research the parent should find out? Is the family history having Deaf? The deaf child wills success in the future with sign language? How can we or the deaf child improve with English communicate skills in writing? Unless the deaf child wants cochlear implant, child can decide themselves to talk with parent around nine or ten years old. Because I met the cochlear implant people, they say to their parent, “Why do you want me have cochlear implant after I born?” Will the parents are answering their question when the deaf child asked that kind of investigation?

Let's imagine together. What if the state deaf school shut down in Oklahoma? A married hearing couple, living in the middle of Oklahoma, just found out that their child is deaf. What is the best thing they can do to find help to learn more about how to coop with their "recently discovered" hearing impaired child?

Without the deaf school, those deaf parents have several choices. Go with the medical rountine. Go to a different state where there are better deaf schools. Look on the internet for deaf events to attend. Do you really those hearing parents would really do all the extra work for their child? I don't believe all of them would.

That is why each of the states should have a state funded deaf school. However, it's all depending on the deaf community's fight against several of those hearing people who are involved in the decisions of those state sponsored deaf schools.

I think that if all the deaf children's parents all unity together...they might successfully convince those hearing people, responsible for running the deaf schools, to make some better changes in better education. Again, remember, schools are not the only educators.

This post was too long again so I'll continue on the next post.
 
Most of those negative I have says because here that state are lazy to me that I meet. I am 22 years old and move from different states. Current college student at University, study in field as business. I am doing for myself and get all cochlear implant on my head this year. I am doing purpose for college, future family, people, and many purposes. However; I don’t believe to put the deaf child born to get cochlear implant. Why am I saying this? Because they can lose who they are, I watch the movie called, “Sound and Fury.” It is interesting hot topic about cochlear implant verse deaf, but they are in same family members. I saw one scene movie/tape that girl use cochlear implant. The girl doesn’t understand deaf girl sign language. The girl asked the mother what the deaf girl doing. Mother respond, “That is sign language and deaf culture doing this communicate to other communicate.” The girl starts confused about sign language like she asked herself that she needs learn sign language too? It just interests know about that one.

Not really lazy, just uneducated. I have studied in business when I attended college. I never finished it. :p

You are doing it on purpose for education to rely on when you have a future family, interacting with people and many other purposes. Yes I have done the same thing.

Yes, I understand what you mean when you say that children can lose their own identify when they use Cochlear Implants. It is just like this black child living the rest of his life in the white community. Does it really make any difference when he graduates from a college?

Imagine a black child not liking black cookings? I don't mean an american african person cooking a hamburger. I meant as those black foods found in many of american african families homes.

Well enough for me to says, because I don’t like negative about deaf culture. Since I rise with the Deaf world, In Oklahoma state is different where I used to live. I moved from Texas, but I don’t have that trouble like here Oklahoma. See what I am saying other negative. :ugh:

NEGATIVE :rifle:

Thanks for sharing your experiences again. :D
 
Last edited:
Originally posted by deafdyke
I don't give a shit if someone chooses to give their child a CI, but I get EXTREMELY upset when someone refuses to expose a deaf child to ASL/sign...the only reason why ASL isn't too popular is b/c it's considered not a "real" language and speshal needs! If it wasn't considered speshal needs then we'd have involved parents who Sign!

That's Life!

Besides...

You absolutely have no business telling the parents what to do with their children.
 
Off-topic: languages

Originally posted by SilenceGold

Yes it bothers me a lot. It is just the same as the US government wasting their money on college and high school funds by requiring all english speaking citizens to learn spanish or french as a second language. In some colleges, it's more than those two above languages. Why aren't we teaching those foreign people, who are moving into USA, english?

I still get baffled over it. :( For example, I bought a new VCR and it only came with a spanish manual. WTF? I took it back and asked for an english version and they said that I would have to order it from the VCR company. Another WTF? Even stranger it was Walmart. :(

[/B]

The only reason why we are encouraged to learn foreign language is because it actually does improve our English. You learn the structure of other language and see the differences. Some English words are from the French language, so knowing French would actually help your English.

Anyway, the US government has an agreement with Canada and Mexico to create a free trade zone called NAFTA, and that is why manuals are printed in three languages. Cheaper and easier to sell in three countries if you create one model that is compatible for all three countries. In the European Union, a lot of things are labelled in as many as 12 languages, because of the 12 original European Union countries. If a company has forgotten to include an English manual, then it sucks to be them...
 
Originally posted by SilenceGold
That is why each of the states should have a state funded deaf school. However, it's all depending on the deaf community's fight against several of those hearing people who are involved in the decisions of those state sponsored deaf schools.

Actually, the government has been cutting money for all kind of schools, not only schools for the deaf. I am very irked about this, because we have a very large military budget, but too little money goes to the education. It is no wonder our students (not only deaf, but hearing ppl as well) do poorly in schools. We have a strange standard that we set for our schools. In order to continue receiving funds from the government, we have to pass a certain number of students. If the students are unable to do this, and are failing, the administration pass them anyway so that the numbers can be crunched up to meet the quota for funding. It is no wonder our students know nothing, when they leave school.
 
Most of hearing parents don't have that experience
Very true. You have NO idea how many parents of kids who grew up without ASL, have looked back and wished they'd gone with both speech and ASL way back when!
Quite a few hearing parents never had exposure to people with disabilties while growing up, since until relatively recently PWD were socked away and sent to schools. Maybe one good outcome of the mainstreaming movement is that more people will have a more realistic view of disabilty b/c they actually know honest to god disabled people who are sucessful and who live with their disabilty(ies)

Sure, me being raised in public school might be excellent in English grammar but awful in french structure known as ASL. You made a point.

Here's my point, you may be raised in a state deaf school and have excellent ASL usage. Saddly, you would end up with a bad english grammar skill.
That isn't precisely what I meant. What I meant was that an oral deaf kid VERY often ends up with extremely delayed English.
Their English isn't sophpiscated...For example check out a lesson plan for a five year old on the Learning to Listen site. (I'll provide a link later) At the beginning of the lesson she turns to her mother and asks "Push nose?" This is a FIVE year old! Not a two year old...a FIVE year old! Most oral deaf people speak plainly (me want car, instead of I would like the car) and their written language reflects that. Many oral deaf people are just as bad at English (grammar,syntax etc) as ASLers.
Whereas a Signer could be so sophiscated in their language usage that they can talk endlessly on all sorts of subjects like dinosaurs, or cartoons, or horses, or cats, or whatever!
Their vocabularly, syntax etc is far far beyond what an oral deaf kid has achieved. Now do you see what I mean?
 
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