Best Deaf School?

[jillio]

Oh..speaking for what it did to me, my brother and many of my friends ...yea right, it is on me. LOL!

Of course, shel...its your fault that the oral approach didn't work for you. But it isn't jackie's fault that her daughter has to be pre and post taught. How does that logic make sense?

 

[shel90]

Of course, shel...its your fault that the oral approach didn't work for you. But it isn't jackie's fault that her daughter has to be pre and post taught. How does that logic make sense?

Yea...I was just talking to my brother about oral deaf ed...he is studying for his master's in deaf education at a program that supports the BiBi approach. I asked him if his hearing classmates support the oral-only approach and he said that they made a poster with the title "Oral-Only" one night and they had a game of darts on it. I laughed and laughed and laughed soooo hard on that one! Not one deaf person was involved in this game..all HEARING!!! *gasp*

I wish I could have been there. LOL!

The point is he and so many others feel the same as we do about what the oral-only approach does to deaf children world-wide...More negative impact than positive. How can u argue with the numbers?

 

[jillio]

Yea...I was just talking to my brother about oral deaf ed...he is studying for his master's in deaf education at a program that supports the BiBi approach. I asked him if his hearing classmates support the oral-only approach and he said that they made a poster with the title "Oral-Only" one night and they had a game of darts on it. I laughed and laughed and laughed soooo hard on that one! Not one deaf person was involved in this game..all HEARING!!! *gasp*

I wish I could have been there. LOL!

The point is he and so many others feel the same as we do about what the oral-only approach does to deaf children world-wide...More negative impact than positive. How can u argue with the numbers?

That's just it. The supporters can't argue with the numbers. That's why they resort to things like name calling and whining about being picked on. They don't have any logical answers tothe questions.

Yay for the hearies that threw the darts!

 

[shel90]

That's just it. The supporters can't argue with the numbers. That's why they resort to things like name calling and whining about being picked on. They don't have any logical answers tothe questions.

Yay for the hearies that threw the darts!

Yea..if I get picked on, I laugh cuz I know in my heart that I am right and the answer is clear as a whistle in that other thread with the CART issue. In a signing program, the child wouldnt need a CART ..the child would be actively involved in the classroom discussions directly without needing a 3rd person or support system to get the conversations. That is one perfect example of the many flaws in the oral-only approach in the educational setting. Dont know why they are arguing with us about that..it is just so obvious..but if they want that accodomation, that's fine and I am not against it but need to accept that the oral-only approach has flaws instead of defending it. If I had to choose, I would choose to be in an environment where I can fully engage in discussions with my classmates independently without the need of a terp or CART. If the oral deaf kids are happy sitting there quietly and reading the transcripts without making eye contact with their classmates, then that's their decision.

However, my BIG problem is the young deaf children who are in the ages of language development...that is the age group that I dont believe should be placed in an oral-only environment..period! They cant use a CART cuz they havent developed reading skills so if they are missing out what is being said around them, whose fault is it? Guess it is their fault for not "listening" hard enough. :roll:

 

[deafdyke]

but kids that are profoundly deaf can hear if they want to and have a cochlear implant or a hearing aide.

Actually jackie that's inaccurate. The hearing that a CI gives varies tremendously. Even over at Hearing Exchange, that bastion of CIness, they admit that end results vary from only enviromental sounds to being functionally hoh or even "almost hearing" and everything in between!
Yes shel........isn't it ironic that a lot of pro oral folks say that they don't want their kid to be "dependant" on a 'terp, but yet they see nothing wrong with being dependant on a third person to get their info (whether it be thru CART/Cprint or an oral 'terp) Aren't dhh people who use CART and oral terps dependant on those things?

 

[jillio]

Yea..if I get picked on, I laugh cuz I know in my heart that I am right and the answer is clear as a whistle in that other thread with the CART issue. In a signing program, the child wouldnt need a CART ..the child would be actively involved in the classroom discussions directly without needing a 3rd person or support system to get the conversations. That is one perfect example of the many flaws in the oral-only approach in the educational setting. Dont know why they are arguing with us about that..it is just so obvious..but if they want that accodomation, that's fine and I am not against it but need to accept that the oral-only approach has flaws instead of defending it. If I had to choose, I would choose to be in an environment where I can fully engage in discussions with my classmates independently without the need of a terp or CART. If the oral deaf kids are happy sitting there quietly and reading the transcripts without making eye contact with their classmates, then that's their decision.

However, my BIG problem is the young deaf children who are in the ages of language development...that is the age group that I dont believe should be placed in an oral-only environment..period! They cant use a CART cuz they havent developed reading skills so if they are missing out what is being said around them, whose fault is it? Guess it is their fault for not "listening" hard enough. :roll:

Agree with you completely. And another problem I have is that if the school system is forced tospend funds providing CART services for a child that already has a gpa above that of the majority of the hearing students, there is the strong possibility that another child will have to go without needed services just to achieve an average gpa. I can't see providing the extras such as CART for a high achieving student if it means that a child who truly doesn't have equal access will be denied.

 

[jillio]

Actually jackie that's inaccurate. The hearing that a CI gives varies tremendously. Even over at Hearing Exchange, that bastion of CIness, they admit that end results vary from only enviromental sounds to being functionally hoh or even "almost hearing" and everything in between!
Yes shel........isn't it ironic that a lot of pro oral folks say that they don't want their kid to be "dependant" on a 'terp, but yet they see nothing wrong with being dependant on a third person to get their info (whether it be thru CART/Cprint or an oral 'terp) Aren't dhh people who use CART and oral terps dependant on those things?

Yep...and what's up with that comment about "profoundly deaf kids can hear if they want to?" I didn't realize that deafnesswas a choice.

And that, "they can hear if they want to" is exactly the attitude that denies services to children who actually need them...like terps for instance.

 

[Miss-Delectable]

Boy, the pro-oral folks use such convoluted thinking, which doesn't make sense when you try to add it up. I guess they want to present themselves as knowledgeable, but then how can they be if they won't open their mind to learning and accepting other communication methods?

No wonder, the deaf community nicknamed Louise Tracy, the founder of John Tracy Clinic, "Lucifer Louise". I had to laugh at that.

Would interest me to hear all about the nicknames bestowned on all horrible oral teachers, ha ha.

It should be construed as child abuse for forbidding deaf kids from learning signs and isolating them in oral environment which makes them miserable.

Anyway, great points, Shel, Jillio and Deafdyke

 

[jillio]

Boy, the pro-oral folks use such convoluted thinking, which doesn't make sense when you try to add it up. I guess they want to present themselves as knowledgeable, but then how can they be if they won't open their mind to learning and accepting other communication methods?

No wonder, the deaf community nicknamed Louise Tracy, the founder of John Tracy Clinic, "Lucifer Louise". I had to laugh at that.

Would interest me to hear all about the nicknames bestowned on all horrible oral teachers, ha ha.

It should be construed as child abuse for forbidding deaf kids from learning signs and isolating them in oral environment which makes them miserable.

Anyway, great points, Shel, Jillio and Deafdyke

 

[deafdyke]

No wonder, the deaf community nicknamed Louise Tracy, the founder of John Tracy Clinic, "Lucifer Louise".

Oh was she the type who was all "I want my child to be "healthy" and "normal?" A superfical appearance of being healthy and normal is more important then using SPESHAL TOOLS, which would make it OBVIOUS that my child is (BOOHOO HOO)..........HANDICAPPED/disabled/special needs/ devitates from the middle class McDonald suburban norm?

 

[Miss-Delectable]

Oh was she the type who was all "I want my child to be "healthy" and "normal?" A superfical appearance of being healthy and normal is more important then using SPESHAL TOOLS, which would make it OBVIOUS that my child is (BOOHOO HOO)..........HANDICAPPED/disabled/special needs/ devitates from the middle class McDonald suburban norm?

I suppose she was all that, but also she was vehemently against sign language and wielded her power to ensure sign language's not shown on movies in Hollywood.

You can find out more about it in Ridorlive.

 

[shel90]

I suppose she was all that, but also she was vehemently against sign language and wielded her power to ensure sign language's not shown on movies in Hollywood.

You can find out more about it in Ridorlive.

If that's the case...she has no business being in deaf education. She needs to take a hike cuz she has no respect for Deaf people. :madfawk: to her views and others who share that view!!!

 

[jackiesolorzano]

Agree with you completely. And another problem I have is that if the school system is forced tospend funds providing CART services for a child that already has a gpa above that of the majority of the hearing students, there is the strong possibility that another child will have to go without needed services just to achieve an average gpa. I can't see providing the extras such as CART for a high achieving student if it means that a child who truly doesn't have equal access will be denied.

My responsibility is to my child. If another parent doesn't know how or it is just not in them to fight to ensure their child gets equal access that is their problem. And if we are talking about the best deaf school on this thread why are we talking about CART here.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

Yep...and what's up with that comment about "profoundly deaf kids can hear if they want to?" I didn't realize that deafnesswas a choice.

And that, "they can hear if they want to" is exactly the attitude that denies services to children who actually need them...like terps for instance.

It is a choice. If a profoundly deaf child wants to hear they can with hearing aids or a cochlear implant so it is a choice. I did not say they would hear in the normal range I said they can hear.

 

[Oddball]

Oral approach is not that great for everyone including me. Total communication is the best way to go with Deaf kids in order to get start with literacy level. Correct me if I am wrong. Shrugs.

 

[jillio]

My responsibility is to my child. gets equal aIf another parent doesn't know how or it is just not in them to fight to ensure their child ccess that is their problem. And if we are talking about the best deaf school on this thread why are we talking about CART here.

Well, jackie, because when you discuss the best deaf school, youalso delve into those practices that are used to facilitate deaf education. And that second statement in your post is extremely telling. That is an unacceptable attitude in an educator, period, and most especially in an educator of the deaf. How dare you make a comment like that, and then turn around and try to get any one to believe you when you claim that you help parents every day by attending IEPs and helping them to negotiate the system.

 

[jillio]

It is a choice. If a profoundly deaf child wants to hear they can with hearing aids or a cochlear implant so it is a choice. I did not say they would hear in the normal range I said they can hear.

I simply do not believe the ignorance behind that statement.

 

[shel90]

It is a choice. If a profoundly deaf child wants to hear they can with hearing aids or a cochlear implant so it is a choice. I did not say they would hear in the normal range I said they can hear.

That was why I could never understand, growing up, why I couldnt hear like my hearing friends..why I struggled to understand them most of the time, why I needed things repeated to me, why I could barely talk on the phone, why I couldnt follow large group conversations in social situations or in the classrooms. I grew up very confused cuz I was told I can "hear" with my HAs and I thought I was at fault for not "working" hard enough on my listening skills. That lead to some depression in high school. By learning ASL, going to Gallaudet and having deaf friends who went thru the same thing as I did, I finally found it was ok not needing to "hear" and just enjoy whatever limited hearing I have with my HAs. Finally, I was able to love myself for the first time in my life.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

That was why I could never understand, growing up, why I couldnt hear like my hearing friends..why I struggled to understand them most of the time, why I needed things repeated to me, why I could barely talk on the phone, why I couldnt follow large group conversations in social situations or in the classrooms. I grew up very confused cuz I was told I can "hear" with my HAs and I thought I was at fault for not "working" hard enough on my listening skills. That lead to some depression in high school. By learning ASL, going to Gallaudet and having deaf friends who went thru the same thing as I did, I finally found it was ok not needing to "hear" and just enjoy whatever limited hearing I have with my HAs. Finally, I was able to love myself for the first time in my life.

I am sorry you grew up feeling this way. I have always explained to my children what they can and cannot hear. I also explain to them that there are mean people out there and that when people are mean it usually means they are hiding something. I have also explained to my kids how smart they are. I have explained to them how it is much hardier for them to hear in a large group or with background noises. I have trieds to be very open and honest with children.

 

[jag]

Oh was she the type who was all "I want my child to be "healthy" and "normal?" A superfical appearance of being healthy and normal is more important then using SPESHAL TOOLS, which would make it OBVIOUS that my child is (BOOHOO HOO)..........HANDICAPPED/disabled/special needs/ devitates from the middle class McDonald suburban norm?

Your always putting down people with speical needs continues to make me think you do indeed have a problem. Many of the 'middle class McDonald suburban' parents do have children with special needs many with even more severe needs then a child who is deaf. So please quit using tactics that put down kids with MR and other speical needs. I have actually heard more 'attitude' against individuals with MR in this topic then I ever heard when my daughter attended her home school. UGH.