ASL, SEE, PSE, etc.

[Tousi]

Well, I personally finds some Deaf people (referred to as "big D Deaf") annoying their behaviors and attitudes. (a particular group of deaf people who share a language American Sign Language (ASL) and It's own culture) those kind of people do not like other deaf people who uses speech, wears cochlear implants and so on. The point is that they are not very accepting people, the fact is we are one big family because we are all deaf, even if we don't share the same common ancestry since the majority of us come from hearing families.

I totally understand what you're saying, Cheri and there are enough of us out there who are vocal enough with the deaf leadership in this country to see to it that this new "Deafhood" thing includes deafies of all kinds. Just be aware that the posters above who are saying the things they are re: SEE have very good points and I think they are right....with no disrespect to those who use SEE--which is just another manipulative ploy by hearing educators who do not understand ASL and from their power bases, I think they are afraid of ASL because of their naivete/ignorance. Hope to see that change....

 

[shel90]

Well, I personally finds some Deaf people (referred to as "big D Deaf") annoying their behaviors and attitudes. (a particular group of deaf people who share a language American Sign Language (ASL) and It's own culture) those kind of people do not like other deaf people who uses speech, wears cochlear implants and so on. The point is that they are not very accepting people, the fact is we are one big family because we are all deaf, even if we don't share the same common ancestry since the majority of us come from hearing families.

I am confused. Nobody is saying that people who use SEE are annoying..just the system itself is annoying. Many of us accept those who use SEE but we are talking about those who invented it and why would they tamper with ASL in the first place. Nothing to do with the people who were taught it and who relied on it growing up.

 

[Cheri]

I am confused. Nobody is saying that people who use SEE are annoying..just the system itself is annoying. Many of us accept those who use SEE but we are talking about those who invented it and why would they tamper with ASL in the first place. Nothing to do with the people who were taught it and who relied on it growing up.

If SEE signs are annoying then that person who signs SEE is annoying as well, because that person uses that signs. It's the same thing.

 

[jillio]

If SEE signs are annoying then that person who signs SEE is annoying as well, because that person is signing in SEE. It's the same thing.

No, sweetie, it's not. You are applying something directed at the system to the person. That is the same as saying a child who has misbehaved is a bad child, not that their behavior was bad. One is a personal judgement, the other is an opinion of something outside the person. Good children sometimes behave badly, and wonderful people sometimes get taught an annoying system. They are not responsible for what they were taught. That was someone else's decision.
So,the person who decided that SEE was better and taught it to the deaf person might be annoying, but it doesn't mean that the deaf person who uses what they were taught is annoying.

 

[shel90]

If SEE signs are annoying then that person who signs SEE is annoying as well, because that person uses that signs. It's the same thing.

No, that is not what I am saying. Like many ADers are against oralism and I grew up with it but I am able to step out of the personal box and look at it objectively. I know that they are not referring to me as a former oralist but the methodology itslef. SEE is another methodology in Deaf education. Nothing to do with the people using it cuz it is not your fault that hearing educators used it on you or anyone else just like it is not my fault that I didnt learn any sign language growing up.

 

[Cheri]

No, sweetie, its not..

jillio,

I had some people complain when I signed SEE, and refused to talk to me again, which is fine, I don't give a flying ass about them. I'm just growing tired of hearing about it all the time.

 

[shel90]

jillio,

I had some people complain when I signed SEE, and refused to talk to me again, which is fine, I don't give a flying ass about them. I'm just growing tired of hearing about it all the time.

I have Deaf people look down on me cuz I grew up orally even though I am fluent in ASL. I figured those people arent worth getting to know.

Those people are using SEE to look down on other people. We are talking about the history of the system here...not the people who use it. Hope that clears it up?

 

[Cheri]

I have Deaf people look down on me cuz I grew up orally

There you go, when you have many of members here who are against oralism, we even get looked down in person too, so there's no differences. You also got members in here who prefer deaf people to use sign language only and not speech, and you will face the same similar people in real life like them who will look down on us. I've faced those kind of people in every walk of life, they judged us for who we are and what methodology we uses. It's the truth.

 

[shel90]

There you go, when you have many of members here who are against oralism, we even get looked down in person too, so there's no differences. You also got members in here who prefer deaf people to use sign language only and not speech, and you will face the same similar people in real life like them who will look down on us. I've faced those kind of people in every walk of life, they judged us for who we are and what methodology we uses. It's the truth.

That's why most of my friends in the Deaf community are like me...grew up orally and learned ASL later. I am not worried about those who look down on me. At my work, about 90% of the deaf staff grew up strong culturally deaf going to Deaf schools and using ASL. I get along with them just fine and they respect me despite my background cuz they know it is not my fault.

I noticed that those Deaf who looked on me were really close-minded and dont have a strong understanding of how the world works while those who dont are well educated and have a broader knowledge/understanding of the world.

 

[shel90]

Oh, I wanted to add...my husband signs very SEE so I live with a SEE user. Yea, I prefer him to use ASL cuz it would make communication more free flowing but he is not exposed to ASL like I am so I dont hold it against him. My brother doesnt look down on him simply cuz he uses SEE but he has stated in the past that he didnt appreciate hearing people trying to modify ASL when SEE was first invented.

Also, my brother told me that all of his teachers at the Deaf school he attended used SEE cuz the old philosophy of the school was to use it not ASL. Now, the school policies have changed and moving towards to the BiBi approach.

 

[Cheri]

That's why most of my friends in the Deaf community are like me...grew up orally and learned ASL later. I am not worried about those who look down on me. At my work, about 90% of the deaf staff grew up strong culturally deaf going to Deaf schools and using ASL. I get along with them just fine and they respect me despite my background cuz they know it is not my fault.

I noticed that those Deaf who looked on me were really close-minded and dont have a strong understanding of how the world works while those who dont are well educated and have a broader knowledge/understanding of the world.

Right, and what they don't understand is our hearing parents who intends to listen to those "experts" doctors, speech pathologists, and oral educators are the ones who gave us this methodology to use when growing up, but instead they labeled us bad apples who don't fit in their world.

 

[shel90]

Right, and what they don't understand is our hearing parents who intends to listen to those "experts" doctors, speech pathologists, and oral educators are the ones who gave us this methodology to use when growing up, but instead they labeled us bad apples who don't fit in their world.

My feeling is that those people are probably the "bad apples" of the Deaf community by discriminating against anyone who is different or grew up differently than them. Here in the Maryland and DC Deaf community people like that are very little in numbers, fortunately.

In the Phx Deaf community, I noticed that the number is bigger so I encounter that attitude more in the Phx Deaf community than I do here.

 

[gadgetki]

ASL vs. SEE

I have been reading your many posts about ASL, SEE, and PSE.

I agreed with several ones who posted about SEE and PSE, because almost every deaf ones use SEE and PSE when they communicate with a professional sign language interpreter.

many hearies told me that hearies have hard time to understand ASL meaning in true deaf culture.

80% professional sign language interpreters barely translate ASL as not much.

when I always I called through VRS, I read the interpreter styles are more like PSE and some SEE.

if I use true ASL to VRS interpreter like this, so the interpreter will slow down and hard to reach everything what I said in ASL like 12th grade too advanced and hard for them to understand.

in addition, I had been conversed and questioned almost all interpreters, they told me that they are bad at algebra, or pre-calculus. so I learned same reason. true ASL is pre-calculus, many interpreters are impossible to translate the solution

unless if we use "easy ASL" like add, sub, divide and multiple in elementary, it is called elementary math. many interpreters always understand clearly in elementary math. so I would say "elementary ASL or beginner ASL"

Garrett

 

[Angel]

Unbelieveable. :roll:

 

[jillio]

jillio,

I had some people complain when I signed SEE, and refused to talk to me again, which is fine, I don't give a flying ass about them. I'm just growing tired of hearing about it all the time.

In that case, those people were wrong. But shel and I, and Berry aren't doing that. Whatever sign a person uses and is comfortable with is fine. Or if they choose to use no sign at all. It doesn't matter. And I'm certainly not going to judge a person based on what sign system they learned and use.

 

[jillio]

Right, and what they don't understand is our hearing parents who intends to listen to those "experts" doctors, speech pathologists, and oral educators are the ones who gave us this methodology to use when growing up, but instead they labeled us bad apples who don't fit in their world.

I agree with you there. It is not your fault, or anyone's fault what the parents and educators taught someone. And it doesn't have anything to do with who you are as a person. Anyone who thinks it does is just plain wrong, and not worth your time.

 

[Tousi]

Gadgetki....in your case, from your post above, I'd suggest you use HOVRS.

 

[Berry]

Hey Berry, I will have to go thru my boxes in the basement to find those resources. I will try to make time at my work too.

Ooops, I didn't mean to put you to any extra work. It is not something I can even start reading about right away. My buckets are pretty full and sloshing right now.

But if do you run across something for an amateur who is not nearly as bright as he would like to be, let me know and I'll put it on my list of "nexties". I love to read about new and interesting things.

 

[Berry]

Right, and what they don't understand is our hearing parents who intends to listen to those "experts" doctors, speech pathologists, and oral educators are the ones who gave us this methodology to use when growing up, but instead they labeled us bad apples who don't fit in their world.

Typically hearing parents of a deaf child have never been around deaf people; they go to "experts" who do more to frighten them and bully them into using the experts favorite system than to reassure them.

Most parents do the best they can with what they know.

Children do the best they can given what they grew up with.

If anyone, hearing or deaf, doesn't understand this they must hate themselves and their parents. You can feel sorry for these people, you can offer them understanding -- But don't let them make their problems your problems.

If we knew each other and you wanted to be my friend I would learn SEE.

 

[shel90]

Typically hearing parents of a deaf child have never been around deaf people; they go to "experts" who do more to frighten them and bully them into using the experts favorite system than to reassure them.

Most parents do the best they can with what they know.

Children do the best they can given what they grew up with.

If anyone, hearing or deaf, doesn't understand this they must hate themselves and their parents. You can feel sorry for these people, you can offer them understanding -- But don't let them make their problems your problems.

If we knew each other and you wanted to be my friend I would learn SEE.[/QUOTE]

That's so sweet of you.