Are you Pro-Life or Pro-Choice?

[Maria]

It's because of both of you are christian, that's religion views then don't laugh at other member's comment that say different thing from other member's religion, there's more than 50 religions over world since christian isn't majority or dominant in the world, even not national religion in USA.

You and your hubby are need to laughing at mirror, not at our comment that considered opinion or personal, for me, I believe animal and people are same to me but different spieces and need to treat so equally.

For me, christians are just so weird.

Please, do not use " Christians ". Okay ? This is not Christianity or Religions Forum.

This thread is all about " Are you Pro-Life or Pro-Choice " - not " christians " issue.

 

[Mistyrose]

I don't buy at her story, though.

Thankfully, I used to be catholic before before switched into atheist in long time ago.

tsk, tsk..bad choice, so what made you change?

 

[Foxrac]

tsk, tsk..bad choice, so what made you change?

Hell no, that's not bad choice.

That's my choice, period...

It's is VERY LONG story for me to make to change on my own, that my CHOICE.

Don't call bad thing to me. :roll:

 

[Mistyrose]

Hell no, that's not bad choice.

That's my choice, period...

It's is VERY LONG story for me to make to change on my own, that my CHOICE.

Don't call bad thing to me. :roll:

okey,dokey..no problem..
Its your prerogative! Its just that im curious as to why
people would just suddenly become atheist after being
a christian..is all.
I apologize for saying "bad choice"..didnt mean to say that, ok?

 

[Mistyrose]

*walking out the door quietly*

Hahaha, Cheri....pulling u outa the door...
are u afraid to say sumthin?...
so what do u think? do u believe that animals
have "souls"? give us your insight, please!

 

[vrsterp]

It doesn't matter if they have souls. That's all dependent on your beliefs. I don't think people have souls, so that's irrelevant. Anyone who has pets knows animals have personalities & they feel pain.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I noticed that some of you brought those :topic: about animal and soul which is not relate this thread here so I am going to create a new thread right now. I will paste your posts to quote in my new thread.

 

[Foxrac]

okey,dokey..no problem..
Its your prerogative! Its just that im curious as to why
people would just suddenly become atheist after being
a christian..is all.
I apologize for saying "bad choice"..didnt mean to say that, ok?

I wasn't suddenly to became atheist, it was personal issue and religion issue, that too much for me then I became atheist since late 90's, also my parent is already know and respect me for not join religion activity, such as prayer or whatver. It's normal for lfe, that some children or teenagers can change their religion or life to make better, if they feel comfortable, except for children that who grew up from parent's who is atheist and never influence about everything.

I rather to have free from religion, even nothing to believe in good or bad, that's people's choice if they can change into Muslim, Hindu, Buddhism, Mormon or other to make them feel comfortable. It wasn't suddenly for them, it took me about few years to made final decision by myself. I don't believe in traditional marriage and system that's considered to be conservative. I'm fully liberal in general.

You used to live in Oklahoma then moved to Western NY (Olean area) and that means you are live in out of bible belt, that where Oklahoma is in bible belt with majority of Christian. I refuse to live in southeast states except for Miami, also rest of southeast states are in bible belt, except in Miami, South Florida, Southwest Texas and even nearly Mexican-US border in Texas, also wikipedia does better explain. That's how is difference in NY and Oklahoma.
Bible Belt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[webexplorer]

I wasn't suddenly to became atheist, it was personal issue and religion issue, that too much for me then I became atheist since late 90's, also my parent is already know and respect me for not join religion activity, such as prayer or whatver. It's normal for lfe, that some children or teenagers can change their religion or life to make better, if they feel comfortable, except for children that who grew up from parent's who is atheist and never influence about everything.

I rather to have free from religion, even nothing to believe in good or bad, that's people's choice if they can change into Muslim, Hindu, Buddhism, Mormon or other to make them feel comfortable. It wasn't suddenly for them, it took me about few years to made final decision by myself. I don't believe in traditional marriage and system that's considered to be conservative. I'm fully liberal in general.

You used to live in Oklahoma then moved to Western NY (Olean area) and that means you are live in out of bible belt, that where Oklahoma is in bible belt with majority of Christian. I refuse to live in southeast states except for Miami, also rest of southeast states are in bible belt, except in Miami, South Florida, Southwest Texas and even nearly Mexican-US border in Texas, also wikipedia does better explain. That's how is difference in NY and Oklahoma.
Bible Belt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I reckon that. I am also an atheist. I am not against any religious believers. I do believe in spirits. I like to go to a church on Christmas or spring time because the music is always beautiful and peaceful. I like the song something called "Jesus the prayer" I don't remember the exact name for the song. It was 6 years ago. There were about 20 people in a group were singing at an open house - at a new community college.

 

[christlovedeaf]

Have no clue why blaming christians and accusing them. Not all are the same. There is so much of wrong POV about christians. What "they" do or believe not always the same I do. There are arguments about animals have soul or not. Well, Soul and spirit is different. Animals does not have spirit, but human does. And by claiming "facts" that human coming from animal is not a fact at all. That is opinion. Inspite of site. Each site has different way of viewing. But its a matter of your choice of believing.

 

[Mistyrose]

I wasn't suddenly to became atheist, it was personal issue and religion issue, that too much for me then I became atheist since late 90's, also my parent is already know and respect me for not join religion activity, such as prayer or whatver. It's normal for lfe, that some children or teenagers can change their religion or life to make better, if they feel comfortable, except for children that who grew up from parent's who is atheist and never influence about everything.

I rather to have free from religion, even nothing to believe in good or bad, that's people's choice if they can change into Muslim, Hindu, Buddhism, Mormon or other to make them feel comfortable. It wasn't suddenly for them, it took me about few years to made final decision by myself. I don't believe in traditional marriage and system that's considered to be conservative. I'm fully liberal in general.

You used to live in Oklahoma then moved to Western NY (Olean area) and that means you are live in out of bible belt, that where Oklahoma is in bible belt with majority of Christian. I refuse to live in southeast states except for Miami, also rest of southeast states are in bible belt, except in Miami, South Florida, Southwest Texas and even nearly Mexican-US border in Texas, also wikipedia does better explain. That's how is difference in NY and Oklahoma.
Bible Belt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oh that is interesting insight you gave me, and i understand where you
are coming from. You made your decision and if you are happy now and all,
then all is good. Yes, you are right that I was from Okla..I was born and
raised in Okla but my husband was originally from W. NY and since he has
retired so he wanted to move back to his homestate. We still go to church
regardless of where we are at, doesnt matter if it is not in Bible belt or not.

You and i are completely different people and have different background
like religions, i do respect that.
Also you are lucky that your parents respect you for making your own
choice like that cuz a lot of parents do harrass their children or worse,
like disown them which is wrong.
Thanks for answering my question and have a good day.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I really don't understand why it's okay to kill people on death row, but not an unborn fetus; euthanasia is okay for a sick animal, but not a sick person; its okay to kill animals for sport and war is okay too, fight against premarital sex and gay marriage is more important than saving the thousands to million people who die of hunger each day. *shake my head*

 

[Reba]

I really don't understand why it's okay to kill people on death row, but not an unborn fetus; euthanasia is okay for a sick animal, but not a sick person; its okay to kill animals for sport and war is okay too, fight against premarital sex and gay marriage is more important than saving the thousands to million people who die of hunger each day. *shake my head*

You honestly don't know the difference between an innocent baby and a convicted felon? Then there is no hope for you.

You honestly don't know the difference between a sick dog and a sick grandma? I'm glad that you're not my daughter when I get old and feeble. I might have to sleep with my shotgun next to me.

I never heard or read that people opposed to premarital sex and gay marriage were against feeding starving people. In fact, many of the organizations that help poor and hungry people are established and supported by the same people who oppose premarital sex and gay marriage. Where do you get your "facts"?

You are against killing animals for sport but you don't mind eating animals that are killed for profit. You don't see the big "H" word looming over that?

You will understand why war is sometimes necessary some day when the enemy comes knocking at your gate. Then it will be too late for you.

 

[Mistyrose]

You honestly don't know the difference between an innocent baby and a convicted felon? Then there is no hope for you.

You honestly don't know the difference between a sick dog and a sick grandma? I'm glad that you're not my daughter when I get old and feeble. I might have to sleep with my shotgun next to me.

I never heard or read that people opposed to premarital sex and gay marriage were against feeding starving people. In fact, many of the organizations that help poor and hungry people are established and supported by the same people who oppose premarital sex and gay marriage. Where do you get your "facts"?

You are against killing animals for sport but you don't mind eating animals that are killed for profit. You don't see the big "H" word looming over that?

You will understand why war is sometimes necessary some day when the enemy comes knocking at your gate. Then it will be too late for you.

Very good, Reba! I totally agree!

 

[Foxrac]

You honestly don't know the difference between an innocent baby and a convicted felon? Then there is no hope for you.

You honestly don't know the difference between a sick dog and a sick grandma? I'm glad that you're not my daughter when I get old and feeble. I might have to sleep with my shotgun next to me.

I never heard or read that people opposed to premarital sex and gay marriage were against feeding starving people. In fact, many of the organizations that help poor and hungry people are established and supported by the same people who oppose premarital sex and gay marriage. Where do you get your "facts"?

You are against killing animals for sport but you don't mind eating animals that are killed for profit. You don't see the big "H" word looming over that?

You will understand why war is sometimes necessary some day when the enemy comes knocking at your gate. Then it will be too late for you.

If I was you then I want prisoners, who sentenced for bad crime like murder, rape or abuse the children then they need to become slavery and work outside likepick the litter or do community or something like that, also I don't support death row because some prisoners can be happy to terminate their life. It is called forced labor or something for prisoners to work so hard, even more harder with no pay.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

You honestly don't know the difference between an innocent baby and a convicted felon? Then there is no hope for you.

I said the same about you as well.

You should pick which you prefer is abort a fetus or abuse innoncent baby? You should think twice and look how and what poor children/babies born to abusive parents...

Sick children won't stay alive long... Why should selfish parents let poor suffering children like this.

You honestly don't know the difference between a sick dog and a sick grandma? I'm glad that you're not my daughter when I get old and feeble. I might have to sleep with my shotgun next to me.

*shake my head* your talk make no sense... It's your decision if you refuse to end your life but suffer as long as you are alive. My decision to end to save my suffering. I will ask my boys to respect my wish before do with living will. I will respect if my parents wish to end their life or stay suffering... It's their own decision, not you or me. Why it's not okay for incurable ill people to decide for themselves to end their life then?

I never heard or read that people opposed to premarital sex and gay marriage were against feeding starving people. In fact, many of the organizations that help poor and hungry people are established and supported by the same people who oppose premarital sex and gay marriage. Where do you get your "facts"?

I think we already talked about this in other thread. I began notice that the people are busy to against gay right marriage to neglect their feeling for starving people. All what we do is leave gay rights alone and accept what they are and focus poor and starving people.

You are against killing animals for sport but you don't mind eating animals that are killed for profit. You don't see the big "H" word looming over that?

I said the same thing about you about "H" as well. I do not need to repeat my post what the difference between kill for the fun/sport and kill for the foods. If you cannot understand the difference then I can't help you.

You will understand why war is sometimes necessary some day when the enemy comes knocking at your gate. Then it will be too late for you.

We have the right to defend ourselves if the enemy comes to attack us in our country. The people will being label as "terrorist" if they go to attack emeny in their country to make a war because it's them who attack their country. I would consider it as terrorist when anyone go to their countries to make a war.

 

[Reba]

You should pick which you prefer is abort a fetus or abuse innoncent baby?

That's where your logic is skewed. You're making an assumption that every baby that doesn't get aborted would end up an abused baby. That just isn't so. That's a common rationalization that pro-abortion people use to soothe their consciences.

You should think twice and look how and what poor children/babies born to abusive parents...

Sick children won't stay alive long... Why should selfish parents let poor suffering children like this.

Again, more acceptance of the pro-abortion propaganda that unaborted babies will be born to abusive parents and/or be sickly and suffering. It's common for pro-abortion groups to leap from acceptance of abortion as a rare medical necessity to promotion of abortion as a noble act.

*shake my head* your talk make no sense... It's your decision if you refuse to end your life but suffer as long as you are alive. My decision to end to save my suffering. I will ask my boys to respect my wish before do with living will. I will respect if my parents wish to end their life or stay suffering... It's their own decision, not you or me. Why it's not okay for incurable ill people to decide for themselves to end their life then?

There are ways to ease suffering without killing someone. Have you ever heard of drugs?

I wouldn't dream of putting my daughter or husband in such an awful position as to kill me. That's so selfish. I have a willing live, so heroic means won't be used to prolong my life but there is no way that I would expect my loved ones to take on the burden of ending my life.

I think we already talked about this in other thread. I began notice that the people are busy to against gay right marriage to neglect their feeling for starving people. All what we do is leave gay rights alone and accept what they are and focus poor and starving people.

Really? People who vote against gay marriage are neglecting starving people? Where is your proof? If that was really happening, it would be on the news, right? Where on earth did you come up with that combination?

I said the same thing about you about "H" as well. I do not need to repeat my post what the difference between kill for the fun/sport and kill for the foods. If you cannot understand the difference then I can't help you.

There are some ADers who are against hunting, and they do not eat meat (they are vegans). I totally respect that viewpoint. They practice what they preach. But it is totally hypocritical to say that you are against killing animals for "sport" but you accept killing animals for profit. Do you realize how many animals are killed (and eaten) thru hunting compared with how many are killed (and eaten) as a result of factory farming and mass slaughter? Do you know the kinds of lives the factory animals live, compared with the lives of wild animals? Do you think factory farmers and butchers are in the business because they care about animals?

We have the right to defend ourselves if the enemy comes to attack us in our country. The people will being label as "terrorist" if they go to attack emeny in their country to make a war because it's them who attack their country. I would consider it as terrorist when anyone go to their countries to make a war.

Good. Then you can understand. The enemy did attack us (Americans) on our soil, so we are fighting back. We should have taken care of that business years ago. We didn't fight back soon enough, so now the war is deeper and harder.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

That's where your logic is skewed. You're making an assumption that every baby that doesn't get aborted would end up an abused baby. That just isn't so. That's a common rationalization that pro-abortion people use to soothe their consciences.

Huh? This is a very simple logic.

There will be more and more unwanted, abuse and neglect babies if the government decides to change the abortion law from legal into illegal. How could I ignore that many babies and children are being abuse/neglect by their own parents? That´s why I choose to respect mother because it´s her body and own decision, not Church, Government, everyone include you and me. It´s mother who is responsible to take care of her baby. It´s up to her either she is able to accept the responsible or not. Why the babies and children have to be suffer whole of their lives like this or incurable conditions? That is NOT called life but mainly worst than abort a fetus due health reasons. That´s why I prefer to support mother´s choice because I prefer to not see the unwanted, abuse, suffering and neglect babies and children around that´s because their parents are struggle with their responsible to take care of them. That´s why I ask to myself either we prefer to let mother decide what she wants to do with baby or not than keep unwanted babies then end to make unwanted babies/children unhappy and suffering.

Again, more acceptance of the pro-abortion propaganda that unaborted babies will be born to abusive parents and/or be sickly and suffering. It's common for pro-abortion groups to leap from acceptance of abortion as a rare medical necessity to promotion of abortion as a noble act.

Well, I noticed many people are hurry up to make a baby and also want to be parent without think twice what and how to accept the responsible with baby... costs, etc... and end to abuse them because they struggle with their responsible.... etc.
OR
Some people don´t believe in abortion and end to abuse the babies because they can´t handle their responsible...

I the mother who decides to give her unwanted baby up for an adoption because baby deserve a good and loving home.

There are ways to ease suffering without killing someone. Have you ever heard of drugs?

Oh yes, it´s really horrible... I withnessed my MIL for scream like REAL crazy over her pain until the doctor gave her morphin shot to calm her down... Few hours later then again scream then again... again... again... It´s horrible to see her through like this. It´s her decision for want to stay alive... We comfort her and her pain. I have seen it and don´t want to end like this and don´t want my famliy suffer for me. No Way... We suffered to see how suffer my MIL was. Really horrible... No Way... I would not do that to my boys...

I wouldn't dream of putting my daughter or husband in such an awful position as to kill me. That's so selfish. I have a willing live, so heroic means won't be used to prolong my life but there is no way that I would expect my loved ones to take on the burden of ending my life.

This is your POV but I see different as you. I think it´s selfish to have my children to take care of me until I die because I KNEW that I won´t get the chance to be alive... example: full cancer in my body... no chemo therapy can help me... no doctor can help me... should I suffer and receive drugs all the time like what I withnessed my MIL... NO WAY... I don´t want my boys suffer to see me suffering... Let me go peaceful because I know I have no chance to fight to keep alive.

Really? People who vote against gay marriage are neglecting starving people? Where is your proof? If that was really happening, it would be on the news, right? Where on earth did you come up with that combination?

Huh? It has nothing do with the news but my POV and feeling that the people SHOULD focus to help poor people and children than worry about their own interest. Example: Fight to against gay rights (marriage etc.), abortion rights (want to turn it into illegal etc.) Leave gay rights, abortion rights, etc. etc. alone. All what I want to say is QUIT to protest against them but respect gays, pro-choicers, etc and focus on poor people who needs our support. Money should goes to poor people.

There are some ADers who are against hunting, and they do not eat meat (they are vegans). I totally respect that viewpoint. They practice what they preach. But it is totally hypocritical to say that you are against killing animals for "sport" but you accept killing animals for profit. Do you realize how many animals are killed (and eaten) thru hunting compared with how many are killed (and eaten) as a result of factory farming and mass slaughter? Do you know the kinds of lives the factory animals live, compared with the lives of wild animals? Do you think factory farmers and butchers are in the business because they care about animals?

Why have I repeat this since I already answered your post in my other thread about German law over kill animals within seconds for foods. Accord my friend who work for slaughter house and know the rules. They brought animals to slaugher house but not kill them yet but feed and take care of them for a while or few weeks until animals are familiar and able to trust "new owner" then... kill them within seconds without pain, fear, suffering... Perhap your US law is different as German law about kill the animal for the foods...

Hypocritical? Huh? Did I claim that I am a vegan? No, I didn´t. I already stated in several threads that I do eat 4 different meats. I did not raise the animal for the foods. Yes I am against killing animal for the fun and sport because the animals have the feeling and know that they run after them... which is scary for animals but kill the animal within few second is different. I love animals and treat animals as my baby, not see them as foods. I am sorry that you can´t see the difference.

You call yourself a hypocritical because you claim that you are a pro-life and against abortion and support death penatly, war and put animal sleep. I tried to convince you with links what pro-life is about but you choose to ignore it and continue to claim that you are a pro-life. I am against abortion as a birth control but I has to accept the fact that I am a pro-choice because I support abortion due health reasons and euthanasia and against death penatly and war. If you are against ALL then you are a true pro-life.

Good. Then you can understand. The enemy did attack us (Americans) on our soil, so we are fighting back. We should have taken care of that business years ago. We didn't fight back soon enough, so now the war is deeper and harder.

Sorry, you interpret my post in the wrong way. Sure, the enemy attacked your country but you are fighting back? fighting back? Do you mean as a revenage? I consider it as a revenage, not defend when the government send their people to attack emeny´s country. I would consider it as a terrorist if Government sends their people to attack emeny´s country either. You has the right to defend yourself to against enemy if they tried to kill you but go their country?

 

[Reba]

Oh yes, it´s really horrible... I withnessed my MIL for scream like REAL crazy over her pain until the doctor gave her morphin shot to calm her down... Few hours later then again scream then again... again... again... It´s horrible to see her through like this.

You're right. There's no excuse for that. Why didn't the doctor provide her with enough pain killer? That is my complaint. Doctors should provide terminally ill people with enough pain killer. They need to kill the pain, not the patient.

It´s her decision for want to stay alive... We comfort her and her pain. I have seen it and don´t want to end like this and don´t want my famliy suffer for me. No Way... We suffered to see how suffer my MIL was. Really horrible... No Way... I would not do that to my boys...

Ah, ha, there you go. It was her decision. Legalizing assisted euthanasia would not have done her any good. She didn't want it. So why would you want to change the law? Would you want to "put to sleep" your MIL even if she didn't want to die? I guess that would be the same as putting an animal "to sleep" because humans certainly don't get permission from the animal to kill it.

This is your POV but I see different as you. I think it´s selfish to have my children to take care of me until I die because I KNEW that I won´t get the chance to be alive... example: full cancer in my body... no chemo therapy can help me... no doctor can help me... should I suffer and receive drugs all the time like what I withnessed my MIL... NO WAY... I don´t want my boys suffer to see me suffering... Let me go peaceful because I know I have no chance to fight to keep alive.

What exactly do you mean "Let me go peaceful"? What is the process? Do you mean just turn down heroic means of resuscitation or life support? I'm OK with that. Or do you mean giving you a fatal injection? I'm not OK with that. What's wrong with getting enough pain killing medication to comfort you until death?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

You're right. There's no excuse for that. Why didn't the doctor provide her with enough pain killer? That is my complaint. Doctors should provide terminally ill people with enough pain killer. They need to kill the pain, not the patient.

wow, very interesting... it come from you... You really has NO idea how pain incurable illness people suffer!!!!! It´s easy for you to complaint that they do not get enough pain killer. Oh YES, they DO!!! They get a lot what they can but their cancer pain is tooo powerful... My Dad and I shared our experience how to take care of incurable illness people is his second wife and my MIL. They suffer the same situtation and know how horrible they have through. My good friend lost her battle to cancer at age 38. Her hubby said the same thing how she suffer... I cannot beleive after read your post that you think it´s a simple to give them drugs which is not. Do you think that it´s only one drug, they gave them to save pain? No, it´s not one drug but more than one drug... when the pain comes... scream... then gave them drugs...then again... again...

Ah, ha, there you go. It was her decision.

Of course this is HER decision, not everyone including you and me. If incurable illness people who choose to end their life is their own decision, not you, me and everyone. What is your point then?

Legalizing assisted euthanasia would not have done her any good. She didn't want it. So why would you want to change the law? Would you want to "put to sleep" your MIL even if she didn't want to die? I guess that would be the same as putting an animal "to sleep" because humans certainly don't get permission from the animal to kill it.

This is your Hypocritical talk... Put animal sleep is okay for you, not human... I beleive that human and animal should get euthanasia because they have the same suffering. I would respect my family´s wish to end their life or not. What I do with my family and animal is my business and decision, not everyone. Some people want to continue suffering and some not but all what I do is respect their wish because they have feeling. I will ask my boys to respect my wish.

What exactly do you mean "Let me go peaceful"? What is the process? Do you mean just turn down heroic means of resuscitation or life support? I'm OK with that. Or do you mean giving you a fatal injection? I'm not OK with that. What's wrong with getting enough pain killing medication to comfort you until death?

It sounds that you have no feeling...

It´s my decision for want to go peaceful without suffer long years. It´s my decision to ask my boys to respect my wish.
I don´t want to have drugs in my body to suffer pain... gone... again suffer... gone... again... full drug in my body... no way... leave my body alone..