About Parents?

[rebeccalj]

I've given you all the answers, it's obvious that even if I were to want to continue here I wouldn't be able to.

I hope you all realize that you are all nothing but a bunch of freakin bullies, outing anyone who thinks slightly different from you, especially to people who are hearing and GASP!! have a child who is HOH.

You all insult me for the knowledge I don't yet know even though I have stated many times my intention was to learn from you all.

You have all rattled me to the point of leaving. Continue in your little pig sty of a group and run out anyone who thinks differently than you.

I pity you who are so closeminded to think that you're approach is the only correct approach. Like I've said before if this is the community as a whole that my daughter will be entering into in the coming years. God freakin help us all! Jaded isn't a strong enought word.

Hold on a minute! *I'm* not bullying and I don't appreciate being called one.

I'm trying to share with you so that, legit or not, you understand a different perspective from your own. Or that others will read and maybe learn something that they did not know.

Unless you embrace the Deaf culture for your daughter you need not worry that she will ever be a part of it. As I said previously, you have stated you see oral and auditory as the way to go. I hope you change that view for her sake. The chances that her deafness will progress are likely staggeringly high. Then where will she be as a 10 or 12 year old Natalie that never learned to communicate in her first language? What will you do then that you have an incredible opportunity of doing now?

Listen to your heart and your gut. Don't let the *so called* experts tell you what is best for Natalie. Research and absorb everything that you can and then make an informed decision. Don't let an audiologist make it for you. Take charge of her communication education. Some are truly trying to help by providing you our own experience and knowledge because we actually lived it. Many of us were 2 year old Natalie.

Name calling is never right regardless of what side is doing it.

Also, don't forget the earlier post about the Deaf community being very blunt. I can't speak for anyone else but I see our community as being incredibly transparent and so we don't believe in hiding anything. Why? When you know body language doesn't lie. There's no point. So, many of us are just blunt. Speak what you mean and mean what you say. It takes getting used to for hearies.

As to the bolded think about your own approach and ask yourself the same question.

 

[sallylou]

The truth hurts sometimes.

 

[rebeccalj]

People can certainly see me more than they see you.

Your narcissistic and condascending attitude is incredibly sad. I really do feel sorry for you, in spite of your incessant attacks.

You are mistaken. The majority of us don't pay any attention to what you say at all because *YOU* are narcissistic and condescending.:roll:

 

[rebeccalj]

Something just hit me when I was in another thread. The difference between most hearing parents and me is that they come here to support other hearing parents. I am here to support the Deaf. I come here to socialize with and support friends. Their interest is not in being supportive of the Deaf. It is only in being supportive of each other as hearing parents.

Maybe now they will understand why I get a different reaction than they do.

The Deaf here aren't my minions...they are my friends. And we look at things from the same perspective. I guess the few just have trouble grasping that.

Good post.

When I first came here I knew you were a deafie translator. I don't mean a Terp. You are one of the few special hearies in this world (I have a friend who is one) who has this innate ability to translate what we are really *trying* to say back into English so that hearies understand. I was here a day or two and I knew you were one of them.

I am no minion of yours. I respect you as a deafie translator but I have my own opinions and can speak for myself. A deafie translator is rare. You see the world through your eyes but you see them through ours as well. That is just not common in my experience. I'll maybe not always agree with what you have to say but I will sure as heck read it because I want to learn and you are a great teacher.

A couple of these hearie yahoos, they know who they are, can f### off as far as I'm concerned. They don't get it and probably never will and everytime they post I just feel angry inside because they are so daft!!

 

[rebeccalj]

Very good point. I'll keep this in mind. I probably should have taken the advice of the young Chinese woman at the grocery store in Nanchang who was so insistent that that we purchase a particular formula against the advice of the American pediatrician traveling with us: because she was a Chinese child, only she could have really known how to raise a Chinese child. That formula was recalled after scores of children died in the region, but I'm sure she knew better than the so-called professionals.

In fact, this is something Deaf parents of hearing kids can take to heart, too. You can't trust your own knowledge of your children. Disregard the advice of those "professionals" you know who are Deaf. If you have educational placement questions, concerns about developing language, social issues, just reach out to the 18 year old Hearing college student mowing your lawn, or the Hearing guy with some time to kill at the bus station.

Want to know about what your hearing child experiences daily? Ask a Hearing adult. Want to know what hearing children need and want? Ask a hearing adult. Deaf experts certainly can't provide that information. Other Deaf parents, unless they are sharing what Hearing adults have shared with them, can't provide that information. Hearing adults, or hearing adolescents, are the only ones that can give an accurate picture of what it is to be a hearing child. Don't ask other Deaf parents for their advice, Don't contact Deaf professionals: ask the adolescent next door how you should raise your hearing child.

What an incredibly offensive and patronizing post! :roll: Wow! I really didn't expect that from you.

 

[rebeccalj]

My reply was not addressed to you. But this one is: I'm sure Jiro is just thrilled to have your approval of what he can and can't say as a Deaf individual.

Yep, I addressed the difference between me and the other hearing parents on this forum earlier.Thanks for confirming my observations.

I'm sure Jiro appreciates the permission. :roll:

 

[CSign]

Very good point. I'll keep this in mind. I probably should have taken the advice of the young Chinese woman at the grocery store in Nanchang who was so insistent that that we purchase a particular formula against the advice of the American pediatrician traveling with us: because she was a Chinese child, only she could have really known how to raise a Chinese child. That formula was recalled after scores of children died in the region, but I'm sure she knew better than the so-called professionals.

In fact, this is something Deaf parents of hearing kids can take to heart, too. You can't trust your own knowledge of your children. Disregard the advice of those "professionals" you know who are Deaf. If you have educational placement questions, concerns about developing language, social issues, just reach out to the 18 year old Hearing college student mowing your lawn, or the Hearing guy with some time to kill at the bus station.

Want to know about what your hearing child experiences daily? Ask a Hearing
adult. Want to know what hearing children need and want? Ask a hearing
adult. Deaf experts certainly can't provide that information. Other Deaf
parents, unless they are sharing what Hearing adults have shared with them,
can't provide that information. Hearing adults, or hearing adolescents, are the
only ones that can give an accurate picture of what it is to be a hearing child.
Don't ask other Deaf parents for their advice, Don't contact Deaf
professionals: ask the adolescent next door how you should raise your hearing
child.

I think some people are angry because you've made a very good point.

 

[CSign]

You are mistaken. The majority of us don't pay any attention to what you say at all because *YOU* are narcissistic and condescending.:roll:

Ok. There is a handy feature where you can block a person who you don't care to read what they write. Perhaps you should consider blocking me. Then you don't have to exert any extra effort to ignore my posts.

Edit to add: you want condescending, there you go.

I would concur the statement above is in fact condescending. Other posts I've made, that would be a no.

 

[Jiro]

I think some people are angry because you've made a very good point.

so... do you know when to stop?

 

[rebeccalj]

I think some people are angry because you've made a very good point.

Yep, we *are* angry. We're angry because she made a very good point about a hearie parent raising a deafie child.

 

[Bebonang]

Yep, we *are* angry. We're angry because she made a very good point about a hearie parent raising a deafie child.

I may be angry about how a hearing person tell me (Deaf parent) how to raise a hearing child, but I gave my son ASL so that I can understand what he said and have him communicate with me better. As for his speech, I might gave him the wrong vowel or consonant on his speech because I remembered at his hearing school the teacher told me that he was not pronouncing the words right. But I tried to raise him the best I know how from growing up in a hearing family home.

I am not perfect as much as Hearingaidmama (HAM). I don't expect to be perfectionist if that is what HAM want to be. Beside I don't like to be told how to raise my son. But for the hearing parents trying to raise a deaf child is a whole different matter about taking the privilege away from the primary ASL language and having the deaf child to be force into mainstream school in an oral only environment which many d/Deaf students hate. We suffered big time. Every hearing parent expect us to be able to hear with hearing aids or CIs which is not true at all. It is all in their dream to want us to be hearing like hearing parents or hearing children. Ha! What a laugh!

 

[Banjo]

I think some people are angry because you've made a very good point.

That's what you think.

 

[Jiro]

CSign - you have been reported for trolling and flaming. you do not know when to stop. you should follow what you preach like putting one in your ignore list. you need to be spanked.

 

[rebeccalj]

I may be angry about how a hearing person tell me (Deaf parent) how to raise a hearing child, but I gave my son ASL so that I can understand what he said and have him communicate with me better. As for his speech, I might gave him the wrong vowel or consonant on his speech because I remembered at his hearing school the teacher told me that he was not pronouncing the words right. But I tried to raise him the best I know how from growing up in a hearing family home.

I am not perfect as much as Hearingaidmama (HAM). I don't expect to be perfectionist if that is what HAM want to be. Beside I don't like to be told how to raise my son. But for the hearing parents trying to raise a deaf child is a whole different matter about taking the privilege away from the primary ASL language and having the deaf child to be force into mainstream school in an oral only environment which many d/Deaf students hate. We suffered big time. Every hearing parent expect us to be able to hear with hearing aids or CIs which is not true at all. It is all in their dream to want us to be hearing like hearing parents or hearing children. Ha! What a laugh!

So, so true very much! There is *SUCH* a difference between being a hearing parent with a deaf child and being Deaf and having hearing child and being Deaf parent of deaf child. It is a hearing world. We all know, and accept that, I believe. But, to have a hearing parent of a young deaf child come in here and tell *US*, who are grown, and have bad communication experience, tell *us* how it should be, well, I'm sorry, actually I'm not! They tell us that they are going down the same path that our hearie parents did with us just saddens and offends me. I feel sorry for the babies that are going to, like us, be forced to be hearing when this is *not* their language or inclination. It wasn't ours. *WE* knew it but couldn't articulate it. Now we can. And, still, they don't hear us.

Jillio said it best, or maybe it was PFH, when I first posted my thread about "It's up for debate...", that we think visually. That the Deaf are wired differently in their brain. They *have* to be. It makes so much sense. I only wish hearing parents understood that *key* point!

 

[BecLak]

I happen to like a lot of what Jiro posts. My comment has nothing to do with his input as a Deaf man, but everything to do with your advice as a Hearing parent.

Grendel, for your information, Jillio may be hearing, but she is not Hearing - her perspective is Deaf. Big difference.

 

[BecLak]

Grendel, in addition to my previous post.....rebeccalj worded it much better - Jillio is a 'Deaf translator' (she understands both worlds).

 

[deafskeptic]

Grendel, for your information, Jillio may be hearing, but she is not Hearing - her perspective is Deaf. Big difference.

Exactly.

 

[Frisky Feline]

Grendel, in addition to my previous post.....rebeccalj worded it much better - Jillio is a 'Deaf translator' (she understands both worlds).

I agree.
I do not see that many out there like jillio who did see through us and know what we like that we did not HAVE to explain over and over anymore. It is a comforting feeling. Of course we all deafies don't have to be on the same pages that anything relates with the attitudes, courtesy or opinions but same on one thing is perspective of audism/oralism practice.

 

[GrendelQ]

What an incredibly offensive and patronizing post! :roll: Wow! I really didn't expect that from you.

You should be offended and feel patronized. That was the point. My post was Jillio's advice put word for word into the context of a Deaf parent/hearing child relationship, instead of a Hearing parent/deaf child relationship. Sometimes it only takes a simple redirecting of a statement in your direction to show just how offensive it is. Jillio's quote may have looked fine to you, but is it really? You wouldn't take that advice if directed at you, instead? You don't see the basic audistic flaw inherent in this advice?

...Want to know about what your deaf child experieces daily? Ask a Deaf adult. Want to know what accomodations are beneficial for a deaf child? Ask a Deaf adult. Want to know what deaf children need and want? Ask a Deaf adult. Hearing experts certainly can't provide that information. Other hearing parents, unless they are sharing what Deaf adults have shared with them, can't provide that information. Deaf adults, or deaf adolescents, are the only ones that can give an accurate picture of what it is to be a deaf child.

If one truly wants to learn what their deaf child needs or what their deaf child experiences listens to what the Deaf adults have to say.

Want to know about what your hearing child experiences daily? Ask a Hearing adult. Want to know what hearing children need and want? Ask a hearing adult. Deaf experts certainly can't provide that information. Other Deaf parents, unless they are sharing what Hearing adults have shared with them, can't provide that information. Hearing adults, or hearing adolescents, are the only ones that can give an accurate picture of what it is to be a hearing child.

Don't ask other Deaf parents for their advice, Don't contact Deaf professionals: ask the adolescent next door how you should raise your hearing child.

So basically, a Hearing child should get the benefit of their Deaf or Hearing parents' wisdom, expertise, experience, and guidance from others with those same qualities that their parents trust, regardless of hearing status.

But, according to Jillio, a Deaf child's needs wants, accommodations, the big decisions -- not the baby formula or diaper choices, but language, education, communication -- should be guided by any Deaf adult or adolescent who has experienced being deaf, regardless of expertise, empathy, wisdom, experience.

You found it offensive when Jillio's advice, word for word, was pointed at you, a deaf parent, rather than at a hearing parent? Yes. It is offensive. Not because it disregards the judgment of parents, yours and mine, but it's offensive because her approach provides for the most loving and expert guidance for Hearing children, by those selected regardless of hearing status -- but shortchanges our d/Deaf children by suggesting the most importance decisions in their lives should be guided by those selected purely for hearing status, regardless of ability. There's a word for that.

Their input can be valuable, but growing up hearing doesn't make someone the best source of advice for raising hearing child, just as growing up deaf doesn't make someone the best source of advice for raising deaf child.

I don't come to AD to get the collective perspective of the Deaf. I don't go elsewhere for the collective perspective of the hearing. I come here because there are Deaf individuals whose experiences and wisdom I value. Whose company I enjoy. And because there are new parents who aren't aware there's the possibility of taking the CI route along with ASL, without compromising the full development of either English or ASL, and I want to give them a glimpse of that approach, which I'm so very positive about.

If I were simply interested in taking away the perspective of hearing parents, I wouldn't be disagreeing with the hearing parent I do very much disagree with, both in her narrow-minded approach to what's beneficial for deaf children and in how best to reach those new parents of deaf kids who wander onto this board.

 

[Daredevel7]

I have really high respect for GrendelQ, and her post about "Ask a hearing adult for your hearing child." is amusing but really gives a sort of a "false epiphany", especially for hearing parents.

This is a hearing world, we ALL live in it. It isn't as if deaf adults don't know how to operate in it. This world is set up to cater to hearing people. People communicate by talking, teachers do their job by talking to the kids, TVs have audio, and so on. Despite what people may think, deaf people KNOW what it is like to be hearing because they KNOW what they are missing out. (Not that they miss what they are missing out, but just making a point that they are not oblivious to what they can't hear and the consequences for not hearing it.)

The same can't be said for hearing people. They have no idea what it is like to be deaf. They only get a "general" idea. "Okay I guess you miss out some things in the conversation and you can't listen to music." To this day, my long time friends are STILL finding out what barriers I have. Most are not big barriers, but just seemingly insignificant small things that become problematic on the simple basis that this world is set up for hearing people. Sometimes, people (not my close friends, cuz they are awesome) simply respond "whatever, that's not a big deal. You don't need to hear that. It's not that necessary."

Actually, that "Ask a hearing parent" post is evidence for my previous post #266 (http://www.alldeaf.com/general-chat/93321-about-parents-14.html#post1891846). The "Ask a hearing parent" post totally makes sense if the choice for what you do with your deaf child has as much impact as choices like: Private school vs public school, raised with religion vs without, force them to do sports or refuse to allow them to do sports, etc. as stated in my post.

But does it?