A New Book On Hitler, The Normal Guy
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Jezie
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While henjoying and his party went about it in the wrong way and the cost was very dear... he did do and find things that we still use today in science and medical... there are actually many things that people see that can be traced to one natzi or another.
I cannot and will not attempt to rationalize his actions that is not the point I was stating. Only that he did do some good buried in all of that horror.
The very concept of national socialism can cause harm to its nation and the world, especially. ..(well with all things) to such extremism.
He gained the concept of strength and victory regardless of the cost... and that ideal alone is shown throught his actions. He believed that certain races were superior thus racial segregation and thenot genocide came.... he wanted to break away from debts caused by WWI thus created his own money... he wanted better for Germany thus built up the infrastructure of the nation. Oddly the last two were not disconnected. To introduce money into the nation one had to earn it first through work.
But yes, it was a class system and as with all class systems more people are mistreated and disregarded as having worth... in hitler's Germany this was a very unhealthy place to be.
hoichi
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I souls that ate many things came from them in science...
But I'm open to learn
I do know they invented adolphaline which was of course changed after the war to its more familiarity name. Methadone.
And they did advance weaponry and military science in that regard....
But I wouldn't state many
But I'm open to learn
I do know they invented adolphaline which was of course changed after the war to its more familiarity name. Methadone.
And they did advance weaponry and military science in that regard....
But I wouldn't state many
Jezie
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As it is know the holocaust was not just death camps, he also had a large number of experiments done. Since animal testing was out (banned under hitler) they conducted their "science" on humans.
Biology was affected through deeper understanding of genetics, advancements in medical care, and how the body worked. The cost of which was at all of the poor souls that were not even seen as himans. They are the ones that developed the best cure of hypothermia and various other medical aspects. They are the ones that figured out how much damage a body could take and how to fix it. ... I do not need to state the horrors these findings we done in or that I do not support them... but to say that they did not benefit the medical field would lessen the unwilling sacrifices of the brutally slain.
Through seeking genicics purity and weaponry advances were also made in physics and chemistry... sadly even here the condemned did not escape "testing" to see what affects these things had on the human body.
You cannot kill to the degree he did and not find out more about the human body and nature, nor the environment in which they are found....earth.
Biology was affected through deeper understanding of genetics, advancements in medical care, and how the body worked. The cost of which was at all of the poor souls that were not even seen as himans. They are the ones that developed the best cure of hypothermia and various other medical aspects. They are the ones that figured out how much damage a body could take and how to fix it. ... I do not need to state the horrors these findings we done in or that I do not support them... but to say that they did not benefit the medical field would lessen the unwilling sacrifices of the brutally slain.
Through seeking genicics purity and weaponry advances were also made in physics and chemistry... sadly even here the condemned did not escape "testing" to see what affects these things had on the human body.
You cannot kill to the degree he did and not find out more about the human body and nature, nor the environment in which they are found....earth.
hoichi
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What exactly was advanced by testing on living human eings?
What exact advancement in medical care came from that that couldn't of come other ways?
I want specifics.
Not generalizations
What new knowledge was taken from this in regards to how the body works that really was new knowledge?
I want specifics
You offer a cure for hypothermia
Fine..I grant..though I don't have time to look into. It..
Right now
Really I often have seen the above remark and no place have I found real data...
I grant they certainly learned allot about the Use Of poison gas on humans,and how to torture or pour hot lead downside. Poor kids throat etc etc..
But I'm asking how is that exactly advanced our useful knowledge
I'd rather us live without what ever advances that may have lead to the the extreme. Depravation the actual practises were and untold suffering caused by them.
Science isn't worth that
Frankly
I'd rather us be living in caves as brutes then have that....
I'm sure plenty of drills were used on Darfie heads too....
I wouldn't put it past them...
Jezie
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Sadly you are correct, they did experimentation on implants as well... and yes the cost is not worth the knowledge...
Ah, if you want specifics and would like reports I would have to go searching. The net.... what I am giving you comes from constant study. I cannot help but to think of what some poor man, woman, and child endured for the knowledge so is kind of hard to write specifics... I whole heartily agree it is better to be cave dwellers then have this knowledge....
If you notice in science books.... a German is often mentioned throughout it.... it bugged me that so much came from Germany and my mother was disheartened about it... this is how I learned she was a holocaust survivor... it was not just my imagination but her stories that told me of the things she witnessed.... it killed my love of medice... because the Natizs are so entrenched in it.
I will find you some links and get back to you on the specifics with actual data to back it for ya.
His best lesson and accomplishment was the simple and unthinkable (the fact that the list had to be made) list and laws created because of his actions on what not to do. These laws and guidelines have protected many people...
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Jezie
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Oh my goodness, I did not realize this was the article you were speaking of... I was looking for your post to show you this article. .. I cannot believe this bull feces exisits...
Much or the rewriting of history, where nazi Germany is concerned, is correcting lies and misinformation like this. I do not know if you know this, but Germany tried to deny the Holocaust. ... the Nazis (actually a rather small group realiviky speaking... think the tally is somewhere in the 200,000 range) to escape justice for war crimes and the horroric actions comited to humanity... the rest of Germany because they could not believe such horrors could be committed by their nation. I am sure there are other reasons, but those two are the strongest that come to mind.
There have been great movements to bring these travesties into light in the hopes that they never happen again.
I cannot believe this article exisits, or any like it. It is really a sad state of affairs that this was written....
I did and I couldn't really find anything positive in it other than he liked dogs more than people. The evil things he did outweigh anything positive he did. Oh and you forgot to mention his highway system which by the way was not to transport people but tanks and military hardware.
hoichi
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History is an agreed upon fable. Period
People will chime "the re writing of history"so on, but who is writing what for whom?
History is written by the victors as such the victor will dictate the history.
If the nazi would of won
You and I and Reba here and others would be having. A very different conversation about the narrative
They lost
So we have this discussion about the narrative
Who controls the past controls the future
That's why history is so important.
That's why narratives are so important.
The closer one is to an event the least likely one will have a picture even hinting at the "truth" what ever that maybe.
In regards to war very little of it told to us in schools or on TV or through news papers could really be ever classed as close to the "truth"
We like to think our narrative is.
But in the end
It's a fable like any other, constructed for a political purpose like any other.
We like to pat ourselves on the back for always being toehold guys
I sure do...
But the truth of it is far more ugly
World War Two gives us a good glimpse at how propaganda of all sides can shape the narrative for generations after it.
Its never a simple as
"We are the good guys"
"They are the bad guys"
Too bad it isn't
But it's never that simple
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hoichi
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As for re as link
Number three is true.
Hitler did have compassion for other creatures. He had more compassion for or bugs and dogs then he did for most humans.
Yep
Number four also is true
Through his and the nazi eyes. They did and saw themselves as trying o prevent the destruction of European civilization by opposing and checking the rise of communism.
They saw correctly Stalin and communis was nothing good for civilization. Th sol is they weren't much better.
Number five is also true
In the sense in his eyes and the nazi eyes hitter and national socialist did indeed deeply care for the German race and people.
If a high it's one of the only things or ideals they did care about.
That wasn't a good thing for the rest of us though,neither was it a good thing for Germany
Number 9 is also true
Their is no denying the national socialist regime instituted cultural and social reforms.
Via racial policy, and medical statutes..as well in law and order
That doesn't translate into those reforms being any good.
But they were reforms on what was prior to them
But the link is from some weirdo anyway..
And in no way really shows how in the current mood I Western Europe the far right is on the ascendant.
That's the real danger
Not strange guys like the writer in that post
Look at the rise of the right right now industrial and France and even Germany....
That is occurring not because of dims it's who right good things about hitter..
That is occurring due to the bankruptcy of the current political elite and establishment their..and the policies they have enticted
It's not going to get any better,and frankly looking hard it it. Europe is in for a big big Plm
Number three is true.
Hitler did have compassion for other creatures. He had more compassion for or bugs and dogs then he did for most humans.
Yep
Number four also is true
Through his and the nazi eyes. They did and saw themselves as trying o prevent the destruction of European civilization by opposing and checking the rise of communism.
They saw correctly Stalin and communis was nothing good for civilization. Th sol is they weren't much better.
Number five is also true
In the sense in his eyes and the nazi eyes hitter and national socialist did indeed deeply care for the German race and people.
If a high it's one of the only things or ideals they did care about.
That wasn't a good thing for the rest of us though,neither was it a good thing for Germany
Number 9 is also true
Their is no denying the national socialist regime instituted cultural and social reforms.
Via racial policy, and medical statutes..as well in law and order
That doesn't translate into those reforms being any good.
But they were reforms on what was prior to them
But the link is from some weirdo anyway..
And in no way really shows how in the current mood I Western Europe the far right is on the ascendant.
That's the real danger
Not strange guys like the writer in that post
Look at the rise of the right right now industrial and France and even Germany....
That is occurring not because of dims it's who right good things about hitter..
That is occurring due to the bankruptcy of the current political elite and establishment their..and the policies they have enticted
It's not going to get any better,and frankly looking hard it it. Europe is in for a big big Plm
Jezie
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There is something about the use of the word "fable" that mornings truth and yet feels wrong. Yes, history is written by the victors... I do like the description of history being an agreed upon fable... studying history one can learn a lot from.
If the Natzis won I would not be here for this conversation nor would such conversations be allowed so yes it would be a very different one
It is interesting to me that the victors always claim to be "the good guys" and while everyone wants that position...the truth is there really is no such thing.
hoichi
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There is something about the use of the word "fable" that mornings truth and yet feels wrong. Yes, history is written by the victors... I do like the description of history being an agreed upon fable... studying history one can learn a lot from.
If the Natzis won I would not be here for this conversation nor would such conversations be allowed so yes it would be a very different one
It is interesting to me that the victors always claim to be "the good guys" and while everyone wants that position...the truth is there really is no such thing.
It may feel wrong to you,but it shouldn't. You should ask yourself why it brings up any feelings at all.
It's just a word
But an accurate one
To use an example here
The native version of the events and conquest of the new world is frankly very different then the white Anglo saxon Protestant version of the event.
Or the Spanish catholic version of the event
Or the French catholic version of the event
The Aztecs had a very different idea and take on the event then the conquistadors...
If the Aztecs would of won the narrative would be very different
If the Iroquois would of managed to push the French and British back to the sea the narrative Be very different
But they didn't
And we're conquered
And we all know the ramifications of that.
Ramifications the nazi actually spoke well of
The idea of a reserve or a Jewish ghettoes are not very far apart.
Apartied In South Africa or the reservation system in Canada were not very far apart
The difference is here natives are a minority whereas in southafrica the blacks are the majority. but the affects of conquest and the soul crushing ramifications of the idea are the same...
But ask a white guy to tell you the tale you will get a really different answer then someone raised in third world conditions in northern Ontario..
Unless that white guy has educated himself enough to see through the propaganda.
The difference is
The white conquest in the new world succeeded.
The nazi conquest of Europe didn't
Each have their fables from the victors, each have their fables from the losers
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Jezie
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All of this I agree with, the word "fable" does strike meaning to me due to the implications that the story is fictional. ... this gives rise to we'll how much of it is fiction? Many authors in the field will say the best way to write good fiction is to tell only one lie... and people will believe the rest. In this fiction to me seems like a better qualifier... yet a fable is a story told to teach a lesson or learn from.... to me that is what history is.... yet mesh them and you need up with what you are saying, and I agree with. So while it is only a word, and it should not... it does create a "feeling or emotion".
To your examples, yes I agree with them... in short victory worth history... yet we must not forget that the conjured also write their stories and pass them down. This is not as well studied as "history" and it does take some dedication for weed through them. The conjured will liable the victory as wrong and evil while the victors wrote why they were "justified".
hoichi
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Conquered wrote their stories,if they write or survive to write them at all
Sure.
But they tell their stories sure
No one has denied this though
The statement isn't only the victors tell a story.
The sta,ENT is
In the real world
Only the victors telling in the end actually matters.
Their always will be resistance. Sure
But if that's now a days just built into the conquest..
Natives tell their stories,they have their powwows, they do whT they do.
But it's all built into the system now. It's allowed and even now accepted and even promoted.
Because the conquest was so thorough
There is no danger
So they get to dance now.
That would be rather different if the powers that be sensed or saw a danger.
But the conquest is but complete.
This by all means tell your stories. The hob will even pay for it
After all
It's the least they can do
I'm sure..
If the nazi would of won, and the conquest was so through. They wouldn't have much cared for a smattering of Jews on some Jew Rez or ghetto telling a story...
If they were permitted to live..
Once their was no danger
Why not
Jezie
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The natives, while "allowed to dance" are still percicuted in the US... lands are still taken from them and they are still actively supressed.... any time someone finds a way to rise, even a little, the government will take it or crush it... while a "minor threat" it is still often seen as one evidently...
Thus with the philosophy the Natzi had about the Jewish people even a small grotto would not have been much allowed ... this was not a society that believed in equality or diversity... rather complete and total analiation of any thing and person not of the Aryan race and German. ...
I am missing where we are saying something different in regards to where history comes from.
The Jewish people have a huge advantage that many other groups who faced attempted genocide... the truth came out in all its horrors. Now there a multiple organizations and nations that seek to ensure this travesty is never forgotten. But even this did not come without motivations....
hoichi
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As they are in Canada.
My point is
Not to suggest the nazi would use the exact same policy as the whites did on those they conquered.
I was trying to illustrate the similarities in the actions of those who got away with a conquest and genocide and those who didn't.
Yes their would be differences
No doubt
It is doubtful the nazis could of or even would of tried to annihilate any non aryan rayan..race, they were allies with n I aryanid should be remembered ie Japan.
After all it should be noted
You need people. To do the shit work
They would of kept lesser races in their eyes for that shit work, work that would be comnsidered under the arya (nobles) ie the aryan.
Think it through
Some races of course would be exterminated.
But most prob would be living in some aryan type of cast thing India knows so well
Sure the Jews have a good advantage.
And truth be told
If their holy books are to be believed
They too conquered and genocided peoples.
History
Mmmmmm
Jezie
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LOL you caught me :/ okay yes, you are correct... even in history it states that Hitler rented Jewish people out for work... thus it does stand to be that some survivor's would have been left. While, they had alliances with other nations... do you think Natzi would have left them alone? Look at their beliefs and ideology... I am not so sure they could have... at some point it would have unraveled and the Natzi would have attempted to conjure them as well...
Sadly not many nations or groups have not attempted or committed genocide.... Holocaust was actually used to mean genocide but it was not until after WWII that the meaning changed.
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If the Nazis had won, there would be no Jews left to tell their story. Any sympathizers would also be shut up, one way or another.
Since the Allied nations were the victors, the Axis nations survived and thrived. They are today sovereign nations.
Audiofuzzy
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No, I do get the idea of "Hitler was just a man". He sure was. he wasn't, like a god or something. he was a mere mortal, yes.
But he thought he was, and he did all those horrible things that had happened and are attributed to him.
And yes, he personally wanted to kill all the Jews.
He did have personal interest in killing them all. Because he blamed them for all the wrongs in the world.
Fuzzy
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