A New Book On Hitler, The Normal Guy

[hoichi]

this is a small article on a new book that cAme out on hitler. It's a huge huge work, and it has sparked some discussion.

I think it's relevant to us Deaf considering we were the first in his sights.

And I think the author makes a good point, no matter how evil the dude was, he was still like you and me, human. As such That makes him and what he did more interesting then if he was the incarnation of the devil or abominable German bog man that most seem to view him as.

He was a monster
But a monster of us,

Cute pooch.


http://news.nationalpost.com/news/w...tler-as-a-normal-guy-thats-a-problem-for-some

 

[Jezie]

People often bring Hitler up, and while he was a monster in the end... he did do some good... no other does not take away what he did wrong nor what he did to the deaf...
Yes he was human.... he just had the power and extreme crazy to let the monster free that few have managed to meet.

 

[hoichi]

I dunno what good he may have done...
I'm sure like any human he did some good deads at some points. Someway..somehow..


That's a given I guess.

He certainly wasn't the only world leader to inflict genocide.
He didn't get away with it like others, that's prob more to do with the scale and speed he wanted it done.

If he took his time the world prob wouldn't of batted too much an eye..
Naming a wing of auschwitz after Canada showed he had some humour granted ghastly..


His rival Stalin of course got away with it..

So did the Turks in the 20th century so on

And the Brits have a few to be proud off...

On and I it goes...
Monsters begetting monsters...

 

[Jezie]

Ok, let me first state that I am not in support of the guy before I get fried for saying any of this. Everyone wants to hang hitler as the worst person... he is not, but he is up there.
Hitler helped stabilize Germany in the beginning almost everything he did benefited them. I find it funny that he is responsible for the VA bug and yet it is now a punch bug.... guess that good deed even turned violent
He also unified Germany adding in the autobahn... I could go on but here is a link to help... although much is about the party's accomplishmeets as well... but you get the gist
I grew up in germany, where yes he is a shame to the country and little love for the man... but people purposely forget and ban that even the monsters do some good.... and the saints do fall.

http://www.dailystormer.com/50-thin...ow-about-adolf-hitler-and-national-socialism/

 

[hoichi]

Being the worst person is just a relative statement right?

Sure if one looks at him a z geeman you havesome points but if one isn't a z german the. The points don't wash to well right?

One can argue a united Germany prob wasn't the most healthy thing for Europe, maybe a disunited Germany in small prices might of been a healthier option for Europe of that day I dunno

We do know a united Germany under him was a rather hard nut to crack.

He may have unified Germany but he also led her to utter ruin, and separation for some decades...

Few nations experienced the brunt of total war as did z Germans...

And that scale and costs maybe out ways the highway he put in right?
I dunno just a thought

Amongst others.

I understand his rising was complex and the allies of course have allot to stand for re German reparations after the first big one so on, so forth.
But in the end one measures what ever good he may have done the bad seems to rather drown it...

This would be different if....
He would of just as an example went to war and taken out Stalin...
If he did that, and he prob could of if he did open up multiple fronts at the same time,so on, if he rid the world of the Reds we prob souls be singing nice tunes to hi sporting his moustache...

But he didn't
And Stalin won and got away with his genocides. While hitter went down.

 

[Jezie]

Being the worst person is just a relative statement right?

Sure if one looks at him a z geeman you havesome points but if one isn't a z german the. The points don't wash to well right?

One can argue a united Germany prob wasn't the most healthy thing for Europe, maybe a disunited Germany in small prices might of been a healthier option for Europe of that day I dunno

We do know a united Germany under him was a rather hard nut to crack.

He may have unified Germany but he also led her to utter ruin, and separation for some decades...

Few nations experienced the brunt of total war as did z Germans...

And that scale and costs maybe out ways the highway he put in right?
I dunno just a thought

Amongst others.

I understand his rising was complex and the allies of course have allot to stand for re German reparations after the first big one so on, so forth.
But in the end one measures what ever good he may have done the bad seems to rather drown it...

This would be different if....
He would of just as an example went to war and taken out Stalin...
If he did that, and he prob could of if he did open up multiple fronts at the same time,so on, if he rid the world of the Reds we prob souls be singing nice tunes to hi sporting his moustache...

But he didn't
And Stalin won and got away with his genocides. While hitter went down.

Realitive in what form? It is just a statement of how I have seen people to reference other'side actions. ... when attempting to say someone is commingoing a travesty on human or government, Hitler is name name that they are equated to....

Germany was broke and broken when hitler came in, it is how he managed to get in.... looking at the US and Germany of his day I worry for I see many similarlie. .. the US just is not as bad off....yet.

Hitler changed that, he made the nation strong and prosperous again... it actually became one of the strongest nations in Europe. The cost of the autobahn actually helped his economy and nation... and his war effort. So again I would say a good thing.

As for being a good thing for europe... well that is a different kettle .... my argument is that Hitler, while a monster, did do many things for Germany that were good. He is human, he just went WAY overboard.

Yes, if he went after just Stalin, history books would not have Hitler as such the little devil that they do... but he did, as well as ruining much of whatever good he had done. Yet the seeds are still there and they did take root, Hitler is not give credit for the good that has come from his original works and he is banned topic and a taboo one. But, even the worst of us is still capable of some good... I am just tipping my hat to that good, we all already know of his evil.

 

[dogmom]

I'm pondering these posts...honestly, I'm Jewish....I can see that in the beginning Hitler did help to stimulate some economy...but "...nation strong and prosperous..." for whom? As time went on he did this through the reduction of rights, and through property theft and destruction, and eventually through torture and murder of innocent people. When I saw this line, I thought of slavery time in the U.S., and how the South gained economically through the destruction of innocent people also

 

[Jezie]

I'm pondering these posts...honestly, I'm Jewish....I can see that in the beginning Hitler did help to stimulate some economy...but "...nation strong and prosperous..." for whom? As time went on he did this through the reduction of rights, and through property theft and destruction, and eventually through torture and murder of innocent people. When I saw this line, I thought of slavery time in the U.S., and how the South gained economically through the destruction of innocent people also

I can understand, I was raised and adopted by a German Jewish lady... but slavery did not make a country less prosperous. .. Hitler made Germany strong and prosperous for Germany. Did he benefit the jews... no, not even close... did he benefit the others that he saws as unfit for germany... no... but for Germany as a nation... yes in the beginning and before he went off the deepend he did a lot of good.... he is human after all and even though history showed him to be the monster he was.... he was a man not a demon.

As for the south and slavery, this is not the thread for it (there is one somewhere on here though ), and again my comments may cause lash back, but it was not only the south that prosepered... it was the North as well... in aspect if you look at the tariffs and the rest the North gained more from the south then the south did. It would not have hurt the south to be rid of its ties to the north, but the money and farming goods were essential to the north.

 

[hoichi]

Realitive in what form? It is just a statement of how I have seen people to reference other'side actions. ... when attempting to say someone is commingoing a travesty on human or government, Hitler is name name that they are equated to....

Germany was broke and broken when hitler came in, it is how he managed to get in.... looking at the US and Germany of his day I worry for I see many similarlie. .. the US just is not as bad off....yet.

Hitler changed that, he made the nation strong and prosperous again... it actually became one of the strongest nations in Europe. The cost of the autobahn actually helped his economy and nation... and his war effort. So again I would say a good thing.

As for being a good thing for europe... well that is a different kettle .... my argument is that Hitler, while a monster, did do many things for Germany that were good. He is human, he just went WAY overboard.

Yes, if he went after just Stalin, history books would not have Hitler as such the little devil that they do... but he did, as well as ruining much of whatever good he had done. Yet the seeds are still there and they did take root, Hitler is not give credit for the good that has come from his original works and he is banned topic and a taboo one. But, even the worst of us is still capable of some good... I am just tipping my hat to that good, we all already know of his evil.

It's a relative statement because history has all kinds of monsters. And will get all kinds of more monsters.

To a native living in Manitoba as an example on a Rez, he may think hitter was th worst of them but that's only from education. Hitler didn't affect that guys life in any way,

It's relative

To a Jew obviously that is reversed or to anyone the third riech targeted for extermination

But to a rich guy from Mexico hitler would hardly be on the radar besides just knowing history. To a poor Mexican or even to an African he wouldn't much be on the radar unless through education.

To a Russian he sure would as millions of Russians were lost to take him down.

That's relative

He prob wasn't much int he radar of most Chinese then either...so on...


Even for most Americans. America didn't care too much about him but she didn't enteer the war until it was already On for three years...and she didn't enter it to take hitler down, she entered to go after Japan..she was content sitting it out, until then..



He made Germany strong again, but it was strong prior to him, but lost in ww1 when it was part of the halsbourg empire

The Plm and issue here is the strength he via his leadership and ideas made for Germany was a strength that rather was cancerous and misleading. He was just one guy, and his ideas came from someplace, and millions ended up following him...

He ruined the nation. And his policies led to millions and millions and millions of people being killed.

I think it's of course silly that he is a banned topic or a taboo one.
As I believe in freedom of thought

And if we are really to try to prevent monsters like him to arise again we should at least explore what he did,who he was, how he did it, why he did it, and the ideology that drove it...

But besides a highway...
What good did his policies actually do really?
Unit it g a nation for total war and racial purity isn't much. Good thing so let's leave that
What other God things did his policies actually do?

 

[Jezie]

To argue the off and on strength of a nation, on can go to the beginning of history... for the sake of this discussion I am covering for when Hitler was present. Yes in WWI Germany had sterenght.... but what was to social, political, economic, and general health of Germany after the war? Was it in any kind of position of strength after the world raped it for all its worth, the Spanish flu razed through it killing off its populatiin, the debt that was caused and the mishandling of its economic health, the lack of housing, transportation, health care, food, and protection? Is this a strong natiin?
No, it is the crack that gave rise to hitler's climb to power. In abiut five years, Hitler took a broken nation and fixed many of these issues and put it back into a position of strength and prosperity. ... then shattered the ever loving crud out of it.

 

[hoichi]

After the war it was weak due to the war..
I'm not sure why you can't see that.
World war 1 was a direct cause of World War Two..

We dont need to go back very far in history as Germany was a new nation it only became one in the late 19 century..
For the most part

He and his ideas put the nation back into a position of strength for a certain goal a reason.

It wasn't just strength for strengths sake.
It was more to it

And as he did it,right from the start people, innocent people suffered.
Us deaf were the first on his list..

I think it was some thing Like week three since he got power that the Deaf were targeted..

So right from the start along with building military strength for another larger war,innocents were also being targeted.

I guess the way to put it
Is you can have all the strong muscles you want but if your bones are rotten..there's a Plm

So
Ah

One way to get through this is to look at the ideology that drove him, and not so much the man,even though the op is of course on the man

Was the ideology behind him and driving him in anyway much good?

 

[dogmom]

I really liked what u wrote in the pst above, hoichi! and Jezie - I don't think your comments - have to - cause lash back, so far I think we're discussing in a good manner..

 

[hoichi]

I really liked what u wrote in the pst above, hoichi! and Jezie - I don't think your comments - have to - cause lash back, so far I think we're discussing in a good manner..

Thanks dogmom..

It's been a good discussion, I see no plms
Mature adults discussing this as mature adults..
So far so good.

 

[Jezie]

After the war it was weak due to the war..
I'm not sure why you can't see that.
World war 1 was a direct cause of World War Two..

We dont need to go back very far in history as Germany was a new nation it only became one in the late 19 century..
For the most part

He and his ideas put the nation back into a position of strength for a certain goal a reason.

It wasn't just strength for strengths sake.
It was more to it

And as he did it,right from the start people, innocent people suffered.
Us deaf were the first on his list..

I think it was some thing Like week three since he got power that the Deaf were targeted..

So right from the start along with building military strength for another larger war,innocents were also being targeted.

I guess the way to put it
Is you can have all the strong muscles you want but if your bones are rotten..there's a Plm

So
Ah

One way to get through this is to look at the ideology that drove him, and not so much the man,even though the op is of course on the man

Was the ideology behind him and driving him in anyway much good?

To say I do not see it would negate the very statement of did make... it was not the honey bees that caused all of that to happen....yes, WWI was a direct cause of WWII. ... and Hitler trying to reverse the hardships caused by WWI is the bases of all he did.

I am not here to defend the man, for every action he did could be for or be bent to appear for the sole purpose of control. Instead, I am arguing that Hitler did in fact do some good. The fact that he took a war ravaged nation and built it has to give him something.... even though he left it a war ravaged nation... while there it improved drastically.
As the OP, if you would like to discuss his ideology we can go that route... but your post was about him being a man not his ideologies, which are interesting by their own...

Of your comment about strong muscles but rotten bone... very good analogy.... thus with all the strength, resources, and technology he managed it was ruined... all the death, destruction, and hardships for nothing....

 

[Jezie]

I really liked what u wrote in the pst above, hoichi! and Jezie - I don't think your comments - have to - cause lash back, so far I think we're discussing in a good manner..

I enjoy debates, they are fun. Back lash can come from the fact that I state that he did do some good, when history is more comfortable labeling him as just a monster. It is so easy to shame, bash, and ridicule Hitler.... it is challenging so say he did some good and then try to defend the statement without defending his actions. For even if Germany did not fall from grace, his actions are unforgivable.... but he and his are not the nation with the highest body count.... or the greatest of injustices...

 

[seb]

People often bring Hitler up, and while he was a monster in the end... he did do some good... no other does not take away what he did wrong nor what he did to the deaf...
Yes he was human.... he just had the power and extreme crazy to let the monster free that few have managed to meet.

Yes, he pulled Germany out of the Depression and hyper inflation they fell into after the first world war and got people back to work, but he did it with one thing in mind and that was get rid of all the people he despised and defeat those who had in his mind did wrong to Germany after WWI. In the end he left the country completely destroyed, millions of his citizens killed as well as those in neighboring countries dead as well and if it weren't for the allies who defeated them pumping in billions of dollars, they would of been worse off than they had been at the end of WWI, so his "good deeds" came at a very hefty price.

 

[Jezie]

Yes, he pulled Germany out of the Depression and hyper inflation they fell into after the first world war and got people back to work, but he did it with one thing in mind and that was get rid of all the people he despised and defeat those who had in his mind did wrong to Germany after WWI. In the end he left the country completely destroyed, millions of his citizens killed as well as those in neighboring countries dead as well and if it weren't for the allies who defeated them pumping in billions of dollars, they would of been worse off than they had been at the end of WWI, so his "good deeds" came at a very hefty price.

Again I am not debating all of that... it is too easy to bend his actions for the sole purpose of gaining power. Nor am I arguing that his actions are the result of where Germany was after WWII....
What I am stating is that he did do some good. I am not saying they make up for all his wrong doings. Just accepting that they do exisit. It is too easy to bash him and call him a monster.
As for them being worse off then after WWI if it was not for allies... that is debatable. But would hijack this thread.

 

[hoichi]

To say I do not see it would negate the very statement of did make... it was not the honey bees that caused all of that to happen....yes, WWI was a direct cause of WWII. ... and Hitler trying to reverse the hardships caused by WWI is the bases of all he did.

I am not here to defend the man, for every action he did could be for or be bent to appear for the sole purpose of control. Instead, I am arguing that Hitler did in fact do some good. The fact that he took a war ravaged nation and built it has to give him something.... even though he left it a war ravaged nation... while there it improved drastically.
As the OP, if you would like to discuss his ideology we can go that route... but your post was about him being a man not his ideologies, which are interesting by their own...

Of your comment about strong muscles but rotten bone... very good analogy.... thus with all the strength, resources, and technology he managed it was ruined... all the death, destruction, and hardships for nothing....

I wouldn't argue the basis for all he did was to reverse the slide to Germany due to world war 1

As that does not address the very real and present racial policies and ideology inherent in national, socialism ie nazism.

Which is somethig different then economic hardships due to losing a wAr

We can have a good and reasonable discussion of him and his politics (within the realms of the realms of the rules here) without being personally involved in defending the man or even condemning the man

So really I see it best to not get tied up personally or emotionally In it

Again the idea of him doing good or evil is really just relative statement.

Sure he and the nazis built up a strong Germany to fight another war and spread its ideology

Ok

That just depends on who you ask. It's just about the vantage point.

Most of Europe and all minorities or the disabled in Europe under the third rich pro would argue a stronger germany was not a good thing at all.

Yes op was is about the man But the man is more then what he eat for breakfast. Right

He did not come to rule Germany on his good looks right? Or how well he danced?
So
Besides him being a supermodel, their must of been something more to him to allow him to do what he did.

and that thing of course was both his ideology which struck a cord with millions of Germans and how he presented it and his inate charisma

All the above could sure be talked about separate from the man but it makes more sense to me anyway to see how they are all connected to and in the man

 

[Jezie]

I wouldn't argue the basis for all he did was to reverse the slide to Germany due to world war 1

As that soils not address the very real and present racial policies and ideology inherent innazis.
Which is somethig different then teecinimic hardships due to losing a wAr

We can have a good and reasonable discussion of him and his politics without being personally involved in defending thermal or even condemning the man

So really I see it best to not get tied up personally or emotionally I it

Again the idea of him doing good or evil is really just relative statement.
Sure he and the nazis built up a strong Germany to fight another war and spread its ideology

Ok

That just depends on who you ask. It's just about the vantage point.
Most of Europe and all minorities or th edisabaled in Europe under the third rich probaould argue a stronger many was not a good thing at all.

Yes h woo is about th mean. But the man is more then what he eat for breakfast. Right
He did not come to rule Germany on his good looks right?
So
Besides him being a supermodel, their must of been something more to him to allow him to do what he did.

and that thing of course was both his ideology which struck a cord with millions of Germans and how he presented it and his inate charisma
All the above could sure be talked about separate from the man but it makes more sense to me anyway to see how they are all connected to and in the man

To say "all" offeres an absolute and very few things are absolute in nature.
His ideologies are a good place to see and gain a better understanding of the man, his actions, and of many of the layers of the time.
Of course the minorities would argue, there are not many nations throughout time where the minorities are not misused and abused...

I am neither personally nor emotionally attached to this... it is and can be an interesting topic, I say what I do because people can be quick to assume and attack others. Just stating where I stand is all.

 

[hoichi]

I find your last post doesn't really state much.

So
So be it.

But no one has attacked anyone here, so until hat happens that's not a worry.

Indeed minorities usually are badly treated but that just justifies a given rather the discuss a focused issue

When it comes to hitler and his rise and his third rich..their is allot to be discussed.
One can for instance discuss the nazi use of media or propaganda or their very astute awareness of how to use the imege in their propaganda. Or film for that matter

Look at the film "triumph of the will" for a good idea on how they could be rather a head of the times in the understanding and manipulation of the image

Of course hitler wasn't the third rich.

Their were many others involved.

But that's a curse of being a leader.
The buck stops with you..

But besides a highway..as I've asked before what good did he or his ill actually do?