GA illegal immigration bill ruins crops

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darkdog said:
It actually was written by an Eagle Scout. :) Anyway, if you think it depicts the world in a wrongheaded fashion, then have at it. Tear it apart. Show me where I'm wrong.
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I never quite made Eagle Scout. :giggle: I was mostly joshing, but I feel the need to point our that most big business is a monopoly. I do not feel like doing research, and I am confident you know what I am talking about, how just a few guys own the majority of businesses, how they have their tentacles in just about every aspect of our lives, how most of our earnings go to them, and how they crush independent business, etcetera. I just find it unpalatable, that is all.
 
DeafCaroline said:
Reba, ok, so, let's say on average a low income earner pays 8% interest deduction in taxes from their payroll.

Let's say they're earning 9 dollars an hour x 8 hours a day x 260 days (average number of work days in a year = $18,720. 8% of that is deducted from their cheques for taxes = 1496.70 cents. You say they get all that back plus more? And they don't have to pay anything in income tax either?
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BTW, I wish I paid only 8% in federal taxes. As a self-employed person, mine is closer to 30%.
 
saywhatkid said:
Wealth of this kind is a world I never pretend to understand. I am a simple guy that does not need millions. Makes me feel like I am discussing Sumo wrestling with the Japanese.

The greed factor shown by a lot of these larger companies give the good guys like Gates a bad rep. But hey, I like Windows Vista! Works for me.

Glad to see you stopping by. Always enjoy your well-thought posts.
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Such ambition doesn't fit everyone and there's nothing wrong with that. Personally, I don't have a problem with greed as long as it's not excessive. To me, greed's excessive if a person's willing to break the law, break basic laws of ethics and morals, or neglect his other responsibilities, such as family, to make money. If one strives to become a billionaire but refuses to break out of those bounds, I say no problem.

As for corporate greed, that's not so simple. Yeah, people complain about shipping jobs to China or other third world countries, but an executive has a legal duty to do what's in the best interest of your shareholders. If it's clear that it's more profitable to build a factory overseas rather than in the United States and he builds it here anyway, he's not fulfilling his obligation in his role. It sounds cold, but it's a lot better than the nasty consequences of economic protectionism.
 
Beowulf said:
I never quite made Eagle Scout. :giggle: I was mostly joshing, but I feel the need to point our that most big business is a monopoly. I do not feel like doing research, and I am confident you know what I am talking about, how just a few guys own the majority of businesses, how they have their tentacles in just about every aspect of our lives, how most of our earnings go to them, and how they crush independent business, etcetera. I just find it unpalatable, that is all.
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Other than perhaps Microsoft (which is questionable), can you name one industry that is currently run by a monopoly?

And you say "tentacles in just about every aspect of our lives" as if it's a bad thing. The reason they're so prevalent in our lives is that we love consuming their products. Nobody's forced to consume the things they produce that make our standard of living what it is. Most of our earnings go to them because we choose to buy the things they make. We decide we'd rather have that shiny iPad than the $600 in our wallet. How is that bad?

If a small business can't operate as efficiently as, say, Walmart, then yes, that small business will go out of business because people are better off when they can get things for cheaper. All in all, that's a good thing, as much as it sucks for the business owner. That's called creative destruction.

What I don't like is when big businesses get in bed with politicians to crush their small competitors using political influences rather than the market. The only way they can force anything on anyone is to use political power. So why support the philosophy that aims to expand political power over the economy? This concern would support a more libertarian view of the economy, not a Democrat view.
 
darkdog said:
Other than perhaps Microsoft (which is questionable), can you name one industry that is currently run by a monopoly?

And you say "tentacles in just about every aspect of our lives" as if it's a bad thing. The reason they're so prevalent in our lives is that we love consuming their products. Nobody's forced to consume the things they produce that make our standard of living what it is. Most of our earnings go to them because we choose to buy the things they make. We decide we'd rather have that shiny iPad than the $600 in our wallet. How is that bad?

If a small business can't operate as efficiently as, say, Walmart, then yes, that small business will go out of business because people are better off when they can get things for cheaper. All in all, that's a good thing, as much as it sucks for the business owner. That's called creative destruction.

What I don't like is when big businesses get in bed with politicians to crush their small competitors using political influences rather than the market. The only way they can force anything on anyone is to use political power. So why support the philosophy that aims to expand political power over the economy? This concern would support a more libertarian view of the economy, not a Democrat view.
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I'm still not researching, lol. Too tired. Maybe later. Anyway, would you say that Walmart is a townkiller? They set up a supercenter in a small town and all the family stores are run out of business; then, when Walmart decides the time is ripe, they leave and all that is left is a ghost town.
 
Beowulf said:
I'm still not researching, lol. Too tired. Maybe later. Anyway, would you say that Walmart is a townkiller? They set up a supercenter in a small town and all the family stores are run out of business; then, when Walmart decides the time is ripe, they leave and all that is left is a ghost town.
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Really? You claim that most big business is a monopoly and yet you can't think of a single monopoly off the top of your head? If your statement were true, you should be able to name any big company off the top of your head and it would most likely be a monopoly. Let me try. Walmart. No, there's Target. Exxon Mobil. Whoops, there's Chevron. Dell. Not with HP. And on and on it goes.

Probably a futile question, but what towns has Walmart alone turned into ghost towns?
 
darkdog said:
Really? You claim that most big business is a monopoly and yet you can't think of a single monopoly off the top of your head? If your statement were true, you should be able to name any big company off the top of your head and it would most likely be a monopoly. Let me try. Walmart. No, there's Target. Exxon Mobil. Whoops, there's Chevron. Dell. Not with HP. And on and on it goes.

Probably a futile question, but what towns has Walmart alone turned into ghost towns?
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For your last question, this was the first hit I got on google.
Democratic Underground - Walmart KILLED our community.. small rural town is now totally empty of - Democratic Underground
Are you suggesting it is false??? Good Lord.
Of course I know some names of monopolies, both in business and the media. No need to get derisive.
 
And you take that at face value? I can't find the name of the town the person is claiming saying Walmart has turned it into a ghost town. A rather convenient link, I'd say. Or perhaps inconvenient at this point.
 
I wouldn't go as far to say that towns became ghost towns as a result of Walmart, however I wouldn't hesitate to say that a good number of shopping centres and downtown turned into ghost towns due to the intense competition from Walmart. It forced them to change how they did business, for better or for worse.
 
Banjo said:
Wasn't crowing about anything. I was only making a response to someone. You took it the wrong way... as usual.
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I didn't say you were crowing. I said that extra 2 cents higher is nothing to crow about. Meaning it's not a big deal when both dollars are essentially the same value.
 
Beowulf said:
For your last question, this was the first hit I got on google.
Democratic Underground - Walmart KILLED our community.. small rural town is now totally empty of - Democratic Underground
Are you suggesting it is false??? Good Lord.
Of course I know some names of monopolies, both in business and the media. No need to get derisive.
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Please don't take my response personally as I made no ad hominem attacks. However, we are discussing the hard-hitting topic of politics and if you make an assertion that's not supported by reality and you don't recant it when you can't back it up, then don't be surprised when I respond bluntly. It's all fair game as long as we're focused on the substance of the topic.

As for your link, as kokonut pointed out, it is one person on a forum who doesn't even mention the town name. That would be important because even if Walmart is a contributing factor to a town shutting down, I strongly doubt it's the only factor. I really doubt Walmart would bother building in a community that's so small that nearly business would be displaced by their store. What kind of crappy investment would that be on Walmart's part? I'd be curious to know what other factors may have contributed to this particular town's downfall.
 
Walmart didn't turn towns into ghost towns, it made them culturally dead as they live on a diet of franchises and cheap Walmart crap. One town after the other is nothing but sprawling landscapes of ugly copycat franchises, ugly neon signs and gigantic pavement parking lots. Every town has "Walmart Drive" and every town has empty shops.

It's ugly. Small Town America used to be charming with their small family owned shops and restaurants. Not anymore. I could see them dying one by one as we drove throughout Arkansas and part of Mississippi.

darkdog, you're absolutely right. The people made the choices they did that allowed monopolies to flourish. They wanted the most bang for their buck, be it food, clothes, electronics, whatever. And corporations were happy to oblige. It's funny, everyone complains about going to Walmart but they go there. If they truly cared about mom and pop shops, they should have shopped at those places instead to ensure their survival. They didn't.
 
darkdog said:
Please don't take my response personally as I made no ad hominem attacks. However, we are discussing the hard-hitting topic of politics and if you make an assertion that's not supported by reality and you don't recant it when you can't back it up, then don't be surprised when I respond bluntly. It's all fair game as long as we're focused on the substance of the topic.

As for your link, as kokonut pointed out, it is one person on a forum who doesn't even mention the town name. That would be important because even if Walmart is a contributing factor to a town shutting down, I strongly doubt it's the only factor. I really doubt Walmart would bother building in a community that's so small that nearly business would be displaced by their store. What kind of crappy investment would that be on Walmart's part? I'd be curious to know what other factors may have contributed to this particular town's downfall.
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Sorry, I had to turn in an get up before dawn, but now I got the rest of the day off. :)
I rechecked the link I provided and am thoroughly disgusted, lol. But I implied that there is plenty of evidence if one would but google, and you leave the brunt of proving the argument on me while you do not provide any links of your own. I made the statement that Walmart if killing our towns and you said "Oh yeah? Prove it!" and the inescapable conclusion is that you disagree with it. If you disagree with it, then so be it, but I will not exert myself in finding link after link that you ridicule, since I have the feeling you will not accept any evidence I submit, whether it be personal anecdotes or online publications. What have you shown as proof of your arguments? Nothing at all. You have expressed opinions that Walmart and big business is a good thing and let it go at that. So be it. I have personally driven through towns near Walmart that are deserted, with houses boarded up and weeds growing in the roads. I do not blame Walmart entirely, mind you, since it takes customers to make this happen. As the following link shows, Walmart has grown at an exponential rate ( Watch the Growth of Walmart and Sam's Club Across America | FlowingData ) and they should have been stopped in their tracks. ( Justice Department Gets Tough on Monopolies - small business - antitrust ) Improving the quality of life, you say? Nawww, not if the products are made overseas and are shoddy to begin with. Ah well.
 
deafcaroline said:
walmart didn't turn towns into ghost towns, it made them culturally dead as they live on a diet of franchises and cheap walmart crap. One town after the other is nothing but sprawling landscapes of ugly copycat franchises, ugly neon signs and gigantic pavement parking lots. Every town has "walmart drive" and every town has empty shops.

It's ugly. Small town america used to be charming with their small family owned shops and restaurants. Not anymore. I could see them dying one by one as we drove throughout arkansas and part of mississippi.

Darkdog, you're absolutely right. The people made the choices they did that allowed monopolies to flourish. They wanted the most bang for their buck, be it food, clothes, electronics, whatever. And corporations were happy to oblige. It's funny, everyone complains about going to walmart but they go there. If they truly cared about mom and pop shops, they should have shopped at those places instead to ensure their survival. They didn't.
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Booo!!!
Booo!!!
Hiss!!!
Hiss!!!


:lol:
 
DeafCaroline said:
Walmart didn't turn towns into ghost towns, it made them culturally dead as they live on a diet of franchises and cheap Walmart crap. One town after the other is nothing but sprawling landscapes of ugly copycat franchises, ugly neon signs and gigantic pavement parking lots. Every town has "Walmart Drive" and every town has empty shops.

It's ugly. Small Town America used to be charming with their small family owned shops and restaurants. Not anymore. I could see them dying one by one as we drove throughout Arkansas and part of Mississippi.

darkdog, you're absolutely right. The people made the choices they did that allowed monopolies to flourish. They wanted the most bang for their buck, be it food, clothes, electronics, whatever. And corporations were happy to oblige. It's funny, everyone complains about going to Walmart but they go there. If they truly cared about mom and pop shops, they should have shopped at those places instead to ensure their survival. They didn't.
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TOTALLY agree with you on this. Just can't figure out why the same people want to tax to death the like of the Sam Waltons. As you made clear, people did not have to shop there. They THOUGHT they were getting the most bang for their buck and all they were doing is lining Sam's pocket. We should all agree, "you get what you pay for".
 
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