GA illegal immigration bill ruins crops

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kokonut said:
And thus with his creation (patented or otherwise) more jobs get created because people want that product he created/invented. And being a billionaire means that money spent has to go to somewhere in supporting a company through buying their products or services. I'd say it's a win-win scenario. With his inventiveness he helped create possibly hundreds of jobs and his reward is that he became a billionaire as a result. And not just that, maybe he donates a lot of money to various charities, too, through his philanthropy.

I see nothing wrong with this American dream of being rich. And being "rich" is relative around here.
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Our philosophies are very different. When a lot of these guys get added wealth, they turn around and add ocean vessels to their fleets, so more jobs can be done in China. The focus becomes on how to increase profits, no matter what the cost is. Wonder what the pollution levels are in China? Does it matter to you? Do you think that paying lower wages is the ONLY reason these jobs are sent away?

There becomes a point when having great wealth turns into some people into being greedy. Since you think that the more money a person makes, the better, we will never agree.
 
saywhatkid said:
Those percentages are pretty close reflections of the increased tax payments. Not exactly, but not far off. But geez, 1% of Americans earn 25% of the total income. :eek: No wonder Liberals become apoplexic with that kind of data.

Agreed somewhat on the spending. With all the gov't money flowing, why are the highways so crappy?
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It's not "1% of Americans" but 1% of those who filed returns. For 2008 some 142 million returns were processed. Some 13,000 or so returns were from individuals who made more than $10 million dollars (adjusted gross income).

Highways are crappy because of all the red tapes and bureaucratic delays.

A more recent IRS data for tax year 2008.
SOI Tax Stats - Individual Income Tax Returns Publication 1304 (Complete Report)
 
kokonut said:
It's not "1% of Americans" but 1% of those who filed returns. For 2008 some 142 million returns were processed. Some 13,000 or so returns were from individuals who made more than $10 million dollars (adjusted gross income).

Highways are crappy because of all the red tapes and bureaucratic delays.

A more recent IRS data for tax year 2008.
SOI Tax Stats - Individual Income Tax Returns Publication 1304 (Complete Report)
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Right, filed. That is why many of the wealthy are "moving" to non-American addresses.
 
saywhatkid said:
Our philosophies are very different. When a lot of these guys get added wealth, they turn around and add ocean vessels to their fleets, so more jobs can be done in China. The focus becomes on how to increase profits, no matter what the cost is. Wonder what the pollution levels are in China? Does it matter to you? Do you think that paying lower wages is the ONLY reason these jobs are sent away?

There becomes a point when having great wealth turns into some people into being greedy. Since you think that the more money a person makes, the better, we will never agree.
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Pollution levels? I'm not that overly concerned. China will have to deal with it over a period of time just as we have done so when we underwent our own wealth building growth spurt (1930s - 1970s). This is what every country goes through in their wealth building growth. Eventually they'll be able to afford processes that are cleaner plus you get to see more outgrowths of more environmental and social NGOs. We saw a big boom of NGOs during 1970s and 1980s.

Many people are greedy, sure. But many do donate their money to worthy causes. And they are the ones who help provide jobs as well. In other words, you're saying we shouldn't have people like Bill Gates?

Also, I said earlier that saying "rich" is a relative term. You can be a greedy person at any income level.
 
About working in the fields..my ex hubby's parents did that when the kids were small. They knew they wouldnt advance due to no education and not being fully fluent in English but they drilled in their 6 kids about education and education and education. Now, all of them are successful in the career field.
 
Won't help anything. All the sport stars being signed to play-for-pay are still having their millions taxed eventhough their physical home is elsewhere.
 
rolling7 said:
Won't help anything. All the sport stars being signed to play-for-pay are still having their millions taxed eventhough their physical home is elsewhere.
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Are you referring to my post?
 
kokonut said:
Pollution levels? I'm not that overly concerned. China will have to deal with it over a period of time just as we have done so when we underwent our own wealth building growth spurt (1930s - 1970s). This is what every country goes through in their wealth building growth. Eventually they'll be able to afford processes that are cleaner plus you get to see more outgrowths of more environmental and social NGOs. We saw a big boom of NGOs during 1970s and 1980s.

Many people are greedy, sure. But many do donate their money to worthy causes. And they are the ones who help provide jobs as well. In other words, you're saying we shouldn't have people like Bill Gates?

Also, I said earlier that saying "rich" is a relative term. You can be a greedy person at any income level.
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I am not surprised at your lack of concern regarding pollution. After all, it is just a byproduct of big business, and the execs just need to stay in the boardroom to avoid the toxins.

We need more Bill Gates-types. He is one of the good guys.


Greed matters far more when it is coming from a billionaire. Do you really care that some old widow saves soap scraps? Does that impact you on any level? What about the head of a large company that:
  • Moves work to China
  • Endorses massive pollution of China to save money
  • Continually makes smaller package/containers to fool consumers
  • Cheats workers out of pensions
  • Moves company headquarters offshore to avoid taxes
Is this guy a hero because he makes billions in salary? Should I be concerned about his tax burden?
 
saywhatkid said:
I am not surprised at your lack of concern regarding pollution. After all, it is just a byproduct of big business, and the execs just need to stay in the boardroom to avoid the toxins.

We need more Bill Gates-types. He is one of the good guys.


Greed matters far more when it is coming from a billionaire. Do you really care that some old widow saves soap scraps? Does that impact you on any level? What about the head of a large company that:
  • Moves work to China
  • Endorses massive pollution of China to save money
  • Continually makes smaller package/containers to fool consumers
  • Cheats workers out of pensions
  • Moves company headquarters offshore to avoid taxes
Is this guy a hero because he makes billions in salary? Should I be concerned about his tax burden?
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I said "not overly concerned" which is not the same as "lack of concern" or "no concern."
 
saywhatkid said:
My only issue is that those at the top often decide how much they earn, at the expense of the rest.
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That's not exactly how it works. If it were, I could say, "This year, I think I'll make, oh, I don't know, $400 million. I'm feeling a bit extra greedy this year." and then just sit back while $400 million worth of checks come in somehow. If I owned a business, I could set my salary, but it would have to be related to the revenues of the business. If I set my, or anyone's, salary too high, there wouldn't be enough capital to fund the business. If I were someone in a high profile position, like a star athlete or famous actor or CEO with an envious track record, I could set my price but the people who pay the bill could say no. If I tell them my price is $20 million and they agree to that, that means they feel that my services are worth more than $20 million.

saywhatkid said:
Then they complain about how much taxes are. They MUST realize that part of the end result of making such huge salaries will be increased taxes. Why does that not deter them?
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I'm sure it does deter some people. Doing what it takes to become rich comes with a cost and the costlier you make it, the less people will bother with all the risk and hard work.

saywhatkid said:
I realize capitalism is a beautiful thing, but those billionaires might have had some luck working for them; think inheritance. Look at Paris Hilton. What hard work did she contribute?
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Of course they have some luck working for them. If Bill Gates didn't create Microsoft, some other computer genius would have (probably under a different name though). Bill Gates was lucky that he got to be that guy, but that doesn't change the fact the he created something of great value to the world (except Windows Vista). Nobody's poorer because Bill Gates did what he did and became a billionaire doing it, but plenty of people are richer for it, especially in his corner of Washington state.

As for Paris Hilton, her family created wealth in the form of hotels and for whatever reason, decided to give a bunch of it to her. I'd question their judgment in doing so, but they can do what they want with their own money. If anyone loses there, it's only her wealthy family.
 
darkdog said:
That's not exactly how it works. If it were, I could say, "This year, I think I'll make, oh, I don't know, $400 million. I'm feeling a bit extra greedy this year." and then just sit back while $400 million worth of checks come in somehow. If I owned a business, I could set my salary, but it would have to be related to the revenues of the business. If I set my, or anyone's, salary too high, there wouldn't be enough capital to fund the business. If I were someone in a high profile position, like a star athlete or famous actor or CEO with an envious track record, I could set my price but the people who pay the bill could say no. If I tell them my price is $20 million and they agree to that, that means they feel that my services are worth more than $20 million.


I'm sure it does deter some people. Doing what it takes to become rich comes with a cost and the costlier you make it, the less people will bother with all the risk and hard work.


Of course they have some luck working for them. If Bill Gates didn't create Microsoft, some other computer genius would have (probably under a different name though). Bill Gates was lucky that he got to be that guy, but that doesn't change the fact the he created something of great value to the world (except Windows Vista). Nobody's poorer because Bill Gates did what he did and became a billionaire doing it, but plenty of people are richer for it, especially in his corner of Washington state.

As for Paris Hilton, her family created wealth in the form of hotels and for whatever reason, decided to give a bunch of it to her. I'd question their judgment in doing so, but they can do what they want with their own money. If anyone loses there, it's only her wealthy family.
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Wealth of this kind is a world I never pretend to understand. I am a simple guy that does not need millions. Makes me feel like I am discussing Sumo wrestling with the Japanese.

The greed factor shown by a lot of these larger companies give the good guys like Gates a bad rep. But hey, I like Windows Vista! Works for me.

Glad to see you stopping by. Always enjoy your well-thought posts.
 
darkdog said:
That's not exactly how it works. If it were, I could say, "This year, I think I'll make, oh, I don't know, $400 million. I'm feeling a bit extra greedy this year." and then just sit back while $400 million worth of checks come in somehow. If I owned a business, I could set my salary, but it would have to be related to the revenues of the business. If I set my, or anyone's, salary too high, there wouldn't be enough capital to fund the business. If I were someone in a high profile position, like a star athlete or famous actor or CEO with an envious track record, I could set my price but the people who pay the bill could say no. If I tell them my price is $20 million and they agree to that, that means they feel that my services are worth more than $20 million.


I'm sure it does deter some people. Doing what it takes to become rich comes with a cost and the costlier you make it, the less people will bother with all the risk and hard work.


Of course they have some luck working for them. If Bill Gates didn't create Microsoft, some other computer genius would have (probably under a different name though). Bill Gates was lucky that he got to be that guy, but that doesn't change the fact the he created something of great value to the world (except Windows Vista). Nobody's poorer because Bill Gates did what he did and became a billionaire doing it, but plenty of people are richer for it, especially in his corner of Washington state.

As for Paris Hilton, her family created wealth in the form of hotels and for whatever reason, decided to give a bunch of it to her. I'd question their judgment in doing so, but they can do what they want with their own money. If anyone loses there, it's only her wealthy family.
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It sounds like this was written by an Eagle Scout, clean as a whistle and no dirty business. What a world, what a world. :lol:
 
rolling7 said:
Won't help anything. All the sport stars being signed to play-for-pay are still having their millions taxed eventhough their physical home is elsewhere.
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That may very well be a condition of their employment; drawn up in the contract they sign. I recall when NHL players would be sad to be traded to Canadian teams, because they would be paid in Canadian dollars, which were lower valued at the time. (I believe that is still the case)
 
saywhatkid said:
That may very well be a condition of their employment; drawn up in the contract they sign. I recall when NHL players would be sad to be traded to Canadian teams, because they would be paid in Canadian dollars, which were lower valued at the time. (I believe that is still the case)
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Actually, our dollar has been somewhat higher than yours for a good while.
 
Beowulf said:
It sounds like this was written by an Eagle Scout, clean as a whistle and no dirty business. What a world, what a world. :lol:
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It actually was written by an Eagle Scout. :) Anyway, if you think it depicts the world in a wrongheaded fashion, then have at it. Tear it apart. Show me where I'm wrong.
 
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