Remembering Dresden, A Holocaust

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War is hell.
 
Beowulf said:
Ummm, ALL cities in Germany manufactured what they could for the war effort. The majority of German civilians were unaware of concentration camps, believe it or not. That report you cited was laughable for several reasons. 1) It was Wikipedia. Anyone can edit it. 2) Dresden was NOT a military target. Only civilians lived there. 3) 23,000 deaths? Ridiculous. Over 15 square miles of furnace-hot fire depleted the entire city of oxygen, so most deaths were from asphyxiation, and many were vaporized from the heat. You cannot imagine the massiveness of the fire. Sigh.
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Up to 25,000 died in Dresden's WWII bombing - report

Critics say there was no military reason to bomb Dresden
Up to 25,000 people died in the Allied bombing of Dresden during World War II - fewer than often estimated, an official German report has concluded.

The Dresden Historians' Commission published its report after five years of research into the 13-15 February 1945 air raid by Britain and the US.

The study was aimed at ending an ongoing debate on the number of casualties in the German city.

Germany's far-right groups claim that up to 500,000 people died
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Hope you believe the BBC better as reporters.It was a German study. There are many sources that are quite reputable to site. It was done not by outsiders, but by Germans themselves.

BBC News - Up to 25,000 died in Dresden's WWII bombing - report
 
Beowulf said:
Then the massive firebombing mission was a dud.
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Well for amount of deaths claimed by Nazi sympathizers and then disproved by a German study, yes indeed.

If you mean it didn't help end the war, I disagree.
 
War sucks. There's a reason that the actual number of victims is uncertain. Refugees fleeing from Stalin's forces had entered Dresden right before the attack. No one knows how many people where in Dresden at the time.

I get what Botte is saying. The German civilians were complicit because they had a duty to know what their government was doing. They failed to investigate and take action. If people were disappearing, the citizens should have been demanding answers. The German citizen's complicity doesn't make what the British and American forces did "right." On the other hand, there are countless stories of people who risked their on lives to save some of the so-called "undesirables." War seems to bring out the best and worst in people.

We're all complicit in some ways. As an American consumer, I'm complicit in the use of underpaid foreign labor when I buy certain products. It's a most frustrating dilemma.
 
Bottesini said:
Well for amount of deaths claimed by Nazi sympathizers and then disproved by a German study, yes indeed.

If you mean it didn't help end the war, I disagree.
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I am NOT a Nazi sympathizer.
I know what my father told me, about his friends who piloted P-51 fighters with orders to strafe all those fleeing, about how they fell like bowling pins, friends who flew some of the 360 heavy bombers and described the horrifying scene of solid walls of flame moving inward to become a single giant column of flame, etc. I believe THEM.
 
Beowulf said:
I am NOT a Nazi sympathizer.
I know what my father told me, about his friends who piloted P-51 fighters with orders to strafe all those fleeing, about how they fell like bowling pins, friends who flew some of the 360 heavy bombers and described the horrifying scene of solid walls of flame moving inward to become a single giant column of flame, etc. I believe THEM.
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I did not say you were a Nazi sympathizer.

I know what my family, my rabbi, friends of my family told me.

I believe THEM>
 
And I forgot to say I am very sad when my father in law tells what it was like to clean up Dachau after the war ended.

I believe HIM!
 
Bottesini said:
Yes , you were quoting their statistics, I didn't say you compiled false statistics/
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I think 500,000 is too high. It probably is more like 200,000, ballpark.
Anyway, it doesn't really matter what the actual number is, don't you agree? As long as it never happens again.

Still friends? :lol:
 
Beowulf said:
I think 500,000 is too high. It probably is more like 200,000, ballpark.
Anyway, it doesn't really matter what the actual number is, don't you agree? As long as it never happens again.

Still friends? :lol:
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I am hopeful to remain your friend, and am absolutely in agreement that it should never happen again.
 
Beowulf said:
I am NOT a Nazi sympathizer.
I know what my father told me, about his friends who piloted P-51 fighters with orders to strafe all those fleeing, about how they fell like bowling pins, friends who flew some of the 360 heavy bombers and described the horrifying scene of solid walls of flame moving inward to become a single giant column of flame, etc. I believe THEM.
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The way I see it, Botts' posts don't negate what you've heard from your father and his friends.

Even if the number of casualties and ethics of the attack are in dispute, the fact is, it was a horrible event for all those involved.

The Allied pilots and bombardiers were not bloodthirsty heartless killers. They were men of honor thrown into the terrible world of warfare. That's why some of them couldn't reconcile what they did with their core beliefs. Hence, the depression and suicides.

No matter how justified their actions, decent men will be bothered by what they do. Some learn to handle those feelings, and some don't. But I don't believe any good-hearted men ever find joy in warfare.

I would be interested to know how the German pilots reacted to the bombing missions they carried out over Allied civilian targets.
 
deafskeptic said:
I didn't think they'd be for children given the subject.
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Ok, I never know what to expect from Dahl. I once read a children book without first checking the content. The book ended with some siblings killing their grandma, and everyone were happy after that, including their parents. The kids I was reading for, didn't object, again to my surprise.
 
flip said:
Ok, I never know what to expect from Dahl. I once read a children book without first checking the content. The book ended with some siblings killing their grandma, and everyone were happy after that, including their parents. The kids I was reading for, didn't object, again to my surprise.
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A lot of famous fairy tales started out as horror tales. Just that you know...
 
Banjo said:
A lot of famous fairy tales started out as horror tales. Just that you know...
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Forgot to say that the children book I read was written by Dahl. When you say this, I realize that Dahl do write horror stories for kids.
 
Reba said:
The way I see it, Botts' posts don't negate what you've heard from your father and his friends.

Even if the number of casualties and ethics of the attack are in dispute, the fact is, it was a horrible event for all those involved.

The Allied pilots and bombardiers were not bloodthirsty heartless killers. They were men of honor thrown into the terrible world of warfare. That's why some of them couldn't reconcile what they did with their core beliefs. Hence, the depression and suicides.

No matter how justified their actions, decent men will be bothered by what they do. Some learn to handle those feelings, and some don't. But I don't believe any good-hearted men ever find joy in warfare.

I would be interested to know how the German pilots reacted to the bombing missions they carried out over Allied civilian targets.
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I am sure they had the same reactions as the Allied bombers. My father had nightmares his entire life.
 
Bottesini said:
I did not say you were a Nazi sympathizer.

I know what my family, my rabbi, friends of my family told me.

I believe THEM>
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Bottesini said:
And I forgot to say I am very sad when my father in law tells what it was like to clean up Dachau after the war ended.

I believe HIM!
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Lately you've been making some posts that seems to be a bit catty..... You sure you ok?
 
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