Lesbian sgt. discharged after police tell military

Reba said:
If there are no documents, then an FBI agent will interview the couple, individually, and any witnesses that might have been involved in a ceremony. The agent will also interview neighbors to ask if the couple next door has presented themselves as a married couple to them.

That's for starters.
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When marraige is the issue. In this case, the issue was theft.
 
jillio said:
Did they use a marraige certificate in the process?
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Doubtful it was needed.....They were probably upfront with the military about the nature of their association. The military also likely had record of the document.

However if they happened to have the MC sitting on the passenger seat during the incident I am sure it was recorded before the vehicle was impounded. Much like the MC on the kitchen table.
 
TXgolfer said:
Doubtful it was needed.....They were probably upfront with the military about the nature of their association. The military also likely had record of the document.

However if they happened to have the MC sitting on the passenger seat during the incident I am sure it was recorded before the vehicle was impounded. Much like the MC on the kitchen table.
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And you have just substantiated my point. If it is not needed for a heterosexual couple then it is not needed for a same sex couple. And, remember, the heterosexual couple has the privilege of being up front regarding their relationship. The same sex couple does not have that same privilege.
 
Reba said:
No, you questioned the background check information.
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So, you are telling me that all background checks include interviews with numerous individuals when the records indicate the individual is unmarried. And we need to keep in mind, technically, this couple was not married.
 
jillio said:
So, you are telling me that all background checks include interviews with numerous individuals when the records indicate the individual is unmarried.
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Yes. People can lie on their forms. That's the reason the background checks are done by agents. They don't take the answers on a form at face value.

And we need to keep in mind, technically, this couple was not married.
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I missed that link or post. Where was that stated?

In the case of military relationships, it doesn't have to be just legally married couples. It can include other kinds of relationships when it concerns crime or security.
 
jillio said:
And you have just substantiated my point. If it is not needed for a heterosexual couple then it is not needed for a same sex couple. And, remember, the heterosexual couple has the privilege of being up front regarding their relationship. The same sex couple does not have that same privilege.
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It would be needed to prove the relationship of and hetero marriage that wasn't of record. Both MCs would be listed in the report if found. The military is privy to those reports.....Rules are rules.....
 
Reba said:
Yes. People can lie on their forms. That's the reason the background checks are done by agents. They don't take the answers on a form at face value.


I missed that link or post. Where was that stated?

In the case of military relationships, it doesn't have to be just legally married couples. It can include other kinds of relationships when it concerns crime or security.
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Until this country recognizes same sex marraiges, and provides partners the same benefits as available to heterosexual marraiges, a certificate of marraige is not the same as a legally recognized marraige.

If the marraige is not legally recognized, then no lie was made. You have said yourself that you don't think that same sex couples should be able to get "married." And as it stands, in this country, they can't.
 
jillio said:
Until this country recognizes same sex marraiges, and provides partners the same benefits as available to heterosexual marraiges, a certificate of marraige is not the same as a legally recognized marraige.

If the marraige is not legally recognized, then no lie was made. You have said yourself that you don't think that same sex couples should be able to get "married." And as it stands, in this country, they can't.
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Apparently they can...in Iowa, DC, MA

Have to see what the court says.
 
jillio said:
Until this country recognizes same sex marraiges, and provides partners the same benefits as available to heterosexual marraiges, a certificate of marraige is not the same as a legally recognized marraige.
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Actually, it is the marriage license that is the formal document, not a marriage certificate. Some people use the terms interchangeably but that isn't accurate.

If the marraige is not legally recognized, then no lie was made.
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Again, you don't know anything about military security background check requirements even though I tried to explain them to you.

Any information that is held back in a clearance investigation is grounds for turning down the request and further repercussions, on a case-by-case basis.

You have said yourself that you don't think that same sex couples should be able to get "married." And as it stands, in this country, they can't.
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In this case, it doesn't matter what I think. The law doesn't care what I think about marriage. The law is the law, not my opinion.

So you are saying that all those couples who were married in the states that recognize gay marriage aren't legally married? Then why did they celebrate the passing of the state laws?
 
Right. And the law states that discrimination cannot occur on the basis of sexual orientation. That is the whole principle behind this case.

They are recognized in that state alone. Recognition does not have reciprocity.

So, if I fail to tell the military that my grandfather was an alcoholic, or that my brother is gay, I am guilty of witholding information?

Neither one of those things are true, and neither one has bearing on my ability to do my job. Yet both would be close relationships.
 
jillio said:
Right. And the law states that discrimination cannot occur on the basis of sexual orientation. That is the whole principle behind this case.

They are recognized in that state alone. Recognition does not have reciprocity.

So, if I fail to tell the military that my grandfather was an alcoholic, or that my brother is gay, I am guilty of witholding information?

Neither one of those things are true, and neither one has bearing on my ability to do my job. Yet both would be close relationships.
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No but you should tell them if they are a wanted felon and/or cooperate if they call you to investigate.

Being gay is moot. She failed to cooperate with local law enforcement as required by Air Force policy. She got an honorable discharge.....she should be happy and move on..

If she doesn't I hope the Air Force will investigate as to how she could not know she was living with a felon. Perhaps downgrade that discharge.
 
Not having been in the military myself I have been told "The military protects freedom, it does not practice it."

As I understand it if the military discovers that you are in any way subject to blackmail then you are suspected of being, or potentially being, blackmailed.

I am not sure if the military is actually paranoid or if they are just recognizing reality as it pertains to them.
 
Berry said:
Not having been in the military myself I have been told "The military protects freedom, it does not practice it."

As I understand it if the military discovers that you are in any way subject to blackmail then you are suspected of being, or potentially being, blackmailed.

I am not sure if the military is actually paranoid or if they are just recognizing reality as it pertains to them.
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Well said, Berry.
 
TXgolfer said:
No but you should tell them if they are a wanted felon and/or cooperate if they call you to investigate.

Being gay is moot. She failed to cooperate with local law enforcement as required by Air Force policy. She got an honorable discharge.....she should be happy and move on..

If she doesn't I hope the Air Force will investigate as to how she could not know she was living with a felon. Perhaps downgrade that discharge.
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Being gay is not moot. The fact that she was outed is the whole premise behind the lawsuit.:cool2: Had she not been outed there would not be a lawsuit, and we would never have known about this case, just as we never hear about all the other servicemen and women who have had relationships with someone with a criminal history, or have a criminal history themselves.
 
jillio said:
Being gay is not moot. The fact that she was outed is the whole premise behind the lawsuit.:cool2: Had she not been outed there would not be a lawsuit, and we would never have known about this case, just as we never hear about all the other servicemen and women who have had relationships with someone with a criminal history, or have a criminal history themselves.
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We have a lawsuit because she claims she was outed and that led to her discharge........her claim doesn't make it so, people will sue for anything. Again we have only heard her side of the story. It's still very possible she was discharged due to violating the Air Force policy on cooperation. That's why I have said over and over that we have to wait for the facts. However, one fact that she admits to is that she did not comply with a request to come to the home. So we do know for a fact that she violated Air Force policy
 
TXgolfer said:
No but you should tell them if they are a wanted felon and/or cooperate if they call you to investigate.

Being gay is moot. She failed to cooperate with local law enforcement as required by Air Force policy. She got an honorable discharge.....she should be happy and move on..

If she doesn't I hope the Air Force will investigate as to how she could not know she was living with a felon. Perhaps downgrade that discharge.
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So you are telling me that if she went to her boss and said, "I need to go home because the police want to search my house," her boss would have said, "Oh, fine. Give me a report when you get back?" And everything would have been okay?

That is not what any boss I ever had would tell me.
 
Berry said:
So you are telling me that if she went to her boss and said, "I need to go home because the police want to search my house," her boss would have said, "Oh, fine. Give me a report when you get back?" And everything would have been okay?

That is not what any boss I ever had would tell me.
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At least she would have been following Air Force policy.
 
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