Lesbian sgt. discharged after police tell military

[jillio]

Obviously what they had wasn't enough for a search warrant or they would have shown up with that as well.

Prehaps she should have cooperated in the first place. Then there would have been no need to look for her. She could have come home.....let the police ask their questions and been done with it.

This is still just her version of events. We have her story as told by the ACLU and a couple of quotes from the Air Forces Times articles Reba and I cited.

Not necessarily. Police often show up without a search warrant. They only need one if the search is refused.

They were already looking for her, and wanted to gain addmittance to the house in order to check it for her presence. The fact that she wasn't there at the time is why they used the marraige certificate to prove residence. (Which it doesn't do at all. It only proves that a marraige ceremony was performed.)

The police admit to taking the marriage certificate and turning it over to the Air Force. That is a definate. The consequence of that action was disclosing her sexual orientation. And that was not necessary information.

 

[TXgolfer]

The police admit to taking the marriage certificate and turning it over to the Air Force. That is a definate..

Are you referring to this statement?

Police officers spotted the marriage license on the kitchen table through a window of Newsome’s home and alerted the base, Allender has told AP. The license was relevant to the investigation because it showed both the relationship and residency of the two women, he said

notice it wasn't in " "

But this is the quote given to AP.....

“It’s an emotional issue and it’s unfortunate that Newsome lost her job, but I disagree with the notion that our department might be expected to ignore the license, or not document the license, or withhold it from the Air Force once we did know about it,” Allender said Saturday. “It was a part of the case, part of the report and the Air Force was privileged to the information

Nothing about alerting the base OR turning it over to the base

 

[jillio]

Are you referring to this statement?



notice it wasn't in " "

But this is the quote given to AP.....

[/B]

Nothing about alerting the base OR turning it over to the base

Not withholding the information from the base. That states that they did turn the information contained in the marraige certificate over to the base. And the only thing that information proved was that a ceremony had been performed for a same sex couple. Still intentionally providing information regarding sexual orientation. Still wrong and uneccesary. For that matter, information regarding a couple's heterosexual orientation would not have been necessary, either. The line was crossed. Period.

 

[TXgolfer]

Not necessarily. Police often show up without a search warrant. They only need one if the search is refused.
They were already looking for her, and wanted to gain addmittance to the house in order to check it for her presence. The fact that she wasn't there at the time is why they used the marraige certificate to prove residence. (Which it doesn't do at all. It only proves that a marraige ceremony was performed.)

The police admit to taking the marriage certificate and turning it over to the Air Force. That is a definate. The consequence of that action was disclosing her sexual orientation. And that was not necessary information.

And she refused to cooperate......Hence need for a search warrant....hence need for a basis for a search warrant. Of this is just speculation. But there is certainly at least one situation where the license might be in the report.

She shouls have cooperated......makes things go smoothly

 

[jillio]

And she refused to cooperate......Hence need for a search warrant....hence need for a basis for a search warrant. Of this is just speculation. But there is certainly at least one situation where the license might be in the report.

She shouls have cooperated......makes things go smoothly

As I stated, there was already basis for a search warrant or the police would not have been at that particular address looking for her to start with.

Search warrant or not, the marriage license was not pertinent to the investigation. It proved neither residence nor relationship. People with a marraige certificate live apart all the time. Relationships end. Had this been a heterosexual relationship, I doubt very seriously that a marraige certificate would have been used in an attempt to prove something that it could not prove.

 

[TXgolfer]

Not withholding the information from the base. That states that they did turn the information contained in the marraige certificate over to the base. And the only thing that information proved was that a ceremony had been performed for a same sex couple. Still intentionally providing information regarding sexual orientation. Still wrong and uneccesary. For that matter, information regarding a couple's heterosexual orientation would not have been necessary, either. The line was crossed. Period.

Withholding could also be redacting evidence from the report. Also by withhold he could mean not release the report. Point is there is no definite.

 

[jillio]

Withholding could also be redacting evidence from the report. Also by withhold he could mean not release the report. Point is there is no definite.

And the evidence in the report served to disclose her sexual orientation. Still unnecessary to an investigation of theft.

 

[jillio]

Withholding could also be redacting evidence from the report. Also by withhold he could mean not release the report. Point is there is no definite.

Oops! Double post!

 

[TXgolfer]

As I stated, there was already basis for a search warrant or the police would not have been at that particular address looking for her to start with.

Search warrant or not, the marriage license was not pertinent to the investigation. It proved neither residence nor relationship. People with a marraige certificate live apart all the time. Relationships end. Had this been a heterosexual relationship, I doubt very seriously that a marraige certificate would have been used in an attempt to prove something that it could not prove.

So, if Police were told "I believe the person you are looking for lives at this address" would that be the basis for a search warrant? Obviously not. Would they still go by and check? Of course if they thought the info was fairly reliable.

But if once they arrived and found evidence that the person is at least known to the homeowner and the homeowner is refusing to cooperate would that be a basis for a search warrant? Maybe.....It would be a reason to request anyway.

 

[jillio]

So, if Police were told "I believe the person you are looking for lives at this address" would that be the basis for a search warrant? Obviously not. Would they still go by and check? Of course if they thought the info was fairly reliable.

But if once they arrived and found evidence that the person is at least known to the homeowner and the homeowner is refusing to cooperate would that be a basis for a search warrant? Maybe.....It would be a reason to request anyway.

Yes, it is as a matter of fact a basis for a search warrant when they are looking for a person with warrants. Just as it is the basis to search families houses or friends houses. If police have a reasonable suspicion that the individual is living at that residence, or is in that residence at the time, they can get a search warrant.

A marriage certificate is not evidence that the person is living there. That is the point you keep ignoring. It does not prove residence, and it has virtually nothing to do with the theft charges. Cooperation or lack of cooperation, search warrant or no search warrant is not the issue. The issue is the disclosure of this individual's sexual orientation with no cause or logical reason to do so.

 

[TXgolfer]

And the evidence in the report served to disclose her sexual orientation. Still unnecessary to an investigation of theft.

Nope it's a felony warrant and police reports often list known associates and the nature of that relationship. It's been done forever....It is an investigative tool

 

[jillio]

Nope it's a felony warrant and police reports often list known associates and the nature of that relationship. It's been done forever....It is an ivestigative tool

Not to the degree that it discloses someone's sexual orientation. Show me any evidence of a marriage certificate from a heterosexual couple being used in a theft investigation.

They were not charging the individual whose house they searched. They were simply looking for someone they believed to live there. Therefore, there was no reason to disclose the homeowner's sexual orientation. Or the sexual orientation of the suspect, either. Sexual orientation had virtually nothing to do with the theft investigation.

 

[TXgolfer]

Yes, it is as a matter of fact a basis for a search warrant when they are looking for a person with warrants. Just as it is the basis to search families houses or friends houses. If police have a reasonable suspicion that the individual is living at that residence, or is in that residence at the time, they can get a search warrant.

A marriage certificate is not evidence that the person is living there. That is the point you keep ignoring. It does not prove residence, and it has virtually nothing to do with the theft charges. Cooperation or lack of cooperation, search warrant or no search warrant is not the issue. The issue is the disclosure of this individual's sexual orientation with no cause or logical reason to do so.

I guess your state is real different ....In Texas you can not enter a house without permission or a search warrant...unless someone is believed to be in immediate danger. Not even with an arrest warrant.

There are a number of circumstances where it is not necessary for police to obtain a search warrant. No search warrant is necessary when the owner of a property grants police permission to search a space. Cars that have been stopped lawfully can be searched without a search warrant with proper cause. A search warrant is not necessary when a search accompanies an arrest, when the search is carried out necessarily to protect the public or prevent eminent destruction of evidence, or during hot pursuit of a criminal.

Search Warrant - Criminal Law Lawyer Source


Ah but no arrest was made

And search warrants are difficult to get......


How to Support Probable Cause for a Search Warrant

Contributor
By an eHow Contributing Writer
Article Rating: (6 Ratings)
Facebook Twitter StumbleUpon Email Print Share
Facebook TwitterAdd to Favorites Email Print Share
Email Facebook TwitterAdd to Favorites Print Share.In order to obtain a search warrant, a law enforcement official will need to present an argument for probable cause to a judge. Probable cause can be established in a number of ways, such as hearsay (where testimony from a witness can be given to the judge) or personal observations from the officer that a crime has been committed.
.Difficulty: ModerateInstructions.Things You'll Need:
•Direct testimony from officers
•Witnesses
Step
1Support probable cause for a search warrant by producing a witness who can verify a law enforcement officer's claim that a crime may have been committed. While this witness may have to speak with a judge directly, in many cases a phone call may suffice. This is especially true in cases of exigent circumstance, where expediency is required to avoid the destruction of evidence.

Step
2Obtain a search warrant by having a law enforcement officer give direct testimony to the judge about the crime that has been committed. In many cases, an officer may have probable cause after seeing something suspicious, but lacks the evidence to make the search without a warrant. In order to persuade the judge, a distinction must be made between the likelihood of direct evidence and a mere hunch.

Step
3Support probable cause by limiting the scope of the search warrant to certain areas or certain individuals. The search warrant may also limit the types of property that can be seized during the search. Such specificity may convince the judge that the law enforcement officers have already built a strong case against the suspects and that probable cause exists.

Step
4Avoid using rumors, suspicions or anonymous tips to support probable cause when trying to obtain a search warrant from a judge. Legal decisions concerning probable cause are based upon the "totality of the circumstances," meaning that more than one reasonable and reliable condition must be in place before suspicion turns into probability.

Such as "I believe the person you are looking for lives at this address"
Step
5Use the results from a successful search and seizure to build a case for more search warrants. Probable cause can be supported more easily as each search produces reliable evidence. Once evidence is gathered legally, the scope of another warrant may be even broader.

How to Support Probable Cause for a Search Warrant | eHow.com

 

[Reba]

...The police admit to taking the marriage certificate and turning it over to the Air Force. That is a definate. The consequence of that action was disclosing her sexual orientation. And that was not necessary information.

I didn't read where the police admitted to taking the certificate and turning it over to the Air Force. I read that the police told or alerted the Air Force about the certificate.

We don't know what exactly the police said to the Air Force officials.

If the police were investigating a straight civilian woman who was married to a straight military man, then the police would have told or alerted the Air Force about that, too.

The police must always notify the military if a close family member is involved in criminal activities. It's expected. There is nothing worse for a military commanding officer than to be caught off guard by reading about a crime connection of one of his people in the newspaper or seeing it on the TV news, and having to explain to his seniors why he doesn't know what's going on.

 

[Reba]

...Search warrant or not, the marriage license was not pertinent to the investigation. It proved neither residence nor relationship. People with a marraige certificate live apart all the time. Relationships end. Had this been a heterosexual relationship, I doubt very seriously that a marraige certificate would have been used in an attempt to prove something that it could not prove.

It did prove a relationship. It didn't matter if they lived together at that moment, or were on good terms. The quality of their relationship was not the question. The fact that there was a relationship beyond roommate chums was important to both the police and the military. That applies just as much to heterosexual couples. If they are married, then the police need to inform the military of any criminal investigation.

 

[jillio]

It did prove a relationship. It didn't matter if they lived together at that moment, or were on good terms. The quality of their relationship was not the question. The fact that there was a relationship beyond roommate chums was important to both the police and the military. That applies just as much to heterosexual couples. If they are married, then the police need to inform the military of any criminal investigation.

There was still no need to disclose sexual orientation to the military.

I have asked, but have yet to see, an example of a case where police have used the marraige certificate of a heterosexual couple to prove association.

 

[jillio]

I guess your state is real different ....In Texas you can not enter a house without permission or a search warrant...unless someone is believed to be in immediate danger. Not even with an arrest warrant.



Search Warrant - Criminal Law Lawyer Source


Ah but no arrest was made

And search warrants are difficult to get......


How to Support Probable Cause for a Search Warrant

Contributor
By an eHow Contributing Writer
Article Rating: (6 Ratings)
Facebook Twitter StumbleUpon Email Print Share
Facebook TwitterAdd to Favorites Email Print Share
Email Facebook TwitterAdd to Favorites Print Share.In order to obtain a search warrant, a law enforcement official will need to present an argument for probable cause to a judge. Probable cause can be established in a number of ways, such as hearsay (where testimony from a witness can be given to the judge) or personal observations from the officer that a crime has been committed.
.Difficulty: ModerateInstructions.Things You'll Need:
•Direct testimony from officers
•Witnesses
Step
1Support probable cause for a search warrant by producing a witness who can verify a law enforcement officer's claim that a crime may have been committed. While this witness may have to speak with a judge directly, in many cases a phone call may suffice. This is especially true in cases of exigent circumstance, where expediency is required to avoid the destruction of evidence.

Step
2Obtain a search warrant by having a law enforcement officer give direct testimony to the judge about the crime that has been committed. In many cases, an officer may have probable cause after seeing something suspicious, but lacks the evidence to make the search without a warrant. In order to persuade the judge, a distinction must be made between the likelihood of direct evidence and a mere hunch.

Step
3Support probable cause by limiting the scope of the search warrant to certain areas or certain individuals. The search warrant may also limit the types of property that can be seized during the search. Such specificity may convince the judge that the law enforcement officers have already built a strong case against the suspects and that probable cause exists.

Step
4Avoid using rumors, suspicions or anonymous tips to support probable cause when trying to obtain a search warrant from a judge. Legal decisions concerning probable cause are based upon the "totality of the circumstances," meaning that more than one reasonable and reliable condition must be in place before suspicion turns into probability.

Such as "I believe the person you are looking for lives at this address"
Step
5Use the results from a successful search and seizure to build a case for more search warrants. Probable cause can be supported more easily as each search produces reliable evidence. Once evidence is gathered legally, the scope of another warrant may be even broader.

How to Support Probable Cause for a Search Warrant | eHow.com

I did not say that a house could be entered without permission or a search warrant. What I said was, belief that a felon resided there, or was inside the residence was sufficient to obtain a search warrant. Suspicion of such is sufficient probable cause for a search of the residence.

But obtaining a search warrant is not the issue. The issue is the marraige certificate that was used to prove something it cannot prove, and disclosing someone's sexual orientation in the process.

 

[TXgolfer]

What I said was, belief that a felon resided there, or was inside the residence was sufficient to obtain a search warrant. Suspicion of such is sufficient probable cause for a search of the residence.

.

Not according to the steps in my post.

Obviously the police disagreee....I am certain the courts will too. The police work sounds textbook... act on tip, question persons involved or believed to have info, write a report. I am sure that everything within plain sight was recorded as is procedure. ..

Air Force policy requires personnel to cooperate with local law enforcement.....She should have cooperated. She is lucky her discharge was Honorable.

 

[Reba]

There was still no need to disclose sexual orientation to the military.

I have asked, but have yet to see, an example of a case where police have used the marraige certificate of a heterosexual couple to prove association.

In the military, a heterosexual couple usually presents proof of marriage soon after the ceremony in order to sign up for spousal benefits, so there is no reason to wait until there's a police action.

But the police do indeed use whatever means to identify the service member spouse of a criminal or suspected criminal, and subsequently notify the CO. It can be piece of mail with both names on it, a utility bill with both names, a name on an apartment door, a car registration, whatever is convenient. If the couple has their wedding album sitting out with a copy of the invitation in it, they can use that. Each case is different.

Did the police go to the CO and say, "We have proof that one of your airmen is gay and we want you to take action"? Or did the police say to the CO, "We have proof that one of your airmen is married to a suspect we have under investigation, and we're not getting cooperation from that airman; can you help us out"?

Do we know?

BTW, if the airman was married prior to a security clearance background check, upgrade, or update, and didn't reveal that to the investigators, that is a UCMJ offense. That is withholding or even falsifying information that is required when doing a security background check. No, not to dig out sexual orientations but to find out if there is anything compromising (such as a criminal activity, or family members still living in hostile countries) in the service member's family.

 

[jillio]

Not according to the steps in my post.

Obviously the police disagreee....I am certain the courts will too. The police work sounds textbook... act on tip, question persons involved or believed to have info, write a report. I am sure that everything within plain sight was recorded as is procedure. ..

Air Force policy requires personnel to cooperate with local law enforcement.....She should have cooperated. She is lucky her discharge was Honorable.

It is done on a daily basis. Belief that there is criminal activity going on in a residence is suffiicent to obtain a search warrant. And a person evading arrest is considered to be engaging in criminal activity. A person harboring a criminal is engaging in criminal activity.