Proposal for Audism policy to be placed in the guidelines

[rockdrummer]

Dr Schroeder discusses deafism in his blog - Kalalau's Korner.

Racism, Audism, Deafism and What-ism?

A snippet of his blog entry-



The vlog entry could be found here too as well. An indepth discussion as well.

"Deafism evolved because of audism." Jean Boutcher source

Those people have been informed that their names, quotes are posted here.

thanks! After reading the blog it also seems that some people don't understand the meaning behind deafism. Deafism is not a deaf person discriminating against another deaf person as Audism is. If I understand it correctly deafism is the mistrust of all hearing people or deaf oral people and the belief that they are all audists. Please correct me if I have misunderstood.

 

[Lighthouse77]

thanks! After reading the blog it also seems that some people don't understand the meaning behind deafism. Deafism is not a deaf person discriminating against another deaf person as Audism is. If I understand it correctly deafism is the mistrust of all hearing people or deaf oral people and the belief that they are all audists. Please correct me if I have misunderstood.

I personally believe deaf audist and deafism go hand-in-hand. There's a reason why they do what they do.

 

[candybrowneyes]

Mrs Bucket and rockdrummer the two of you could teach many members.. just sayin =)

 

[Mrs Bucket]

thanks! After reading the blog it also seems that some people don't understand the meaning behind deafism. Deafism is not a deaf person discriminating against another deaf person as Audism is. If I understand it correctly deafism is the mistrust of all hearing people or deaf oral people and the belief that they are all audists. Please correct me if I have misunderstood.

Deafism is a behaviour derived from audism.

Deafism is a defense mechanism behaviour; an ingrained behaviour which I must admit I have been guilty of. If a Deaf person has been accused of audism; their natural defense mechanism goes up and the Deaf person will have an excuse ready. "Hearing person's fault!" "Hearing world's fault" This is deafism. In order to break free from deafism, we need to accept ownership of our audistic actions.

I personally believe deaf audist and deafism go hand-in-hand. There's a reason why they do what they do.

Yes they go hand in hand; it's an ingrained behaviour they cannot be blamed for.

Mrs Bucket and rockdrummer the two of you could teach many members.. just sayin =)

Thank you.. really.

 

[Berry]

It is interesting to see deaf people here defend Deaf culture and the Deaf commmunity and it is the hearing people who bring up Deaf audists.

As a hearing person I have never experienced "deafism" -- That is no one from the Deaf community has ever harassed me for being hearing or the quality of my signs -- If anything they have always code switched sufficiently to accommodate me and have always been willing to help me improve my signing skills. Deaf people seem happy that even though I sometimes have difficulty understanding them -- They always seem to understand me.

To me audism is a one way street: and its most visible form is any attempt to suppress sign language, particularly ASL (I live in USA, California, In Britain it would probably be BSL). I have come to expect this attitude from a percentage of the hearing population and pretty well ignore it. By now I should know to expect it from a percentage of the deaf population as well. But it irks hell out of me when it happens.

When I find a deaf person who is extremely difficult to converse with who puts down ASL I find myself taking the attitude, "I'm not going to spend hours fighting to communicate simple things to you just because you are too lazy to learn sign language."

Which probably makes me a hearing person practicing deafism on a deaf person which is really screwed up.

 

[shel90]

thanks! After reading the blog it also seems that some people don't understand the meaning behind deafism. Deafism is not a deaf person discriminating against another deaf person as Audism is. If I understand it correctly deafism is the mistrust of all hearing people or deaf oral people and the belief that they are all audists. Please correct me if I have misunderstood.

Ok so your meaning of deaf people practicing audism would be deaf people thinking they are superiror than other deaf people because they can hear better or have good oral skills?

Just trying to distinguish between Deaf audism and Deafism.

 

[shel90]

This thread is not about defending deaf culture but about developing a policy against audism which for the record I am for. I am speaking up here because too many people use the word out of context and do not define it properly which in my humble opinion would result in an unfair policy.

It wasnt meant to criticize. It was just an interesting observation and how it shows how different the deaf and hearing perspectives can be. Nothing wrong with that.

If anyone felt offended, my apologies...just thought it was interesting that's all.

 

[faire_jour]

Someone tipped me off that you all were talking about me.

Look, I've never really knowingly met a Deaf person. I don't know what Audism is. I don't know if it's taboo to have said the following in a post:

"There aren't many resources in this area. Our hospital has an ASL interpreter on call, but has never used her. The Deaf community here seems pretty non-existent. The one thing we have going for us is that my aunt is an ASL interpreter. She lives over an hour away, but has been sending us good books and resources, and is going to try to stop in once every couple of weeks.

My first thought is to learn signs and use Signed Exact English, thinking that we will try to enhance her hearing by whatever method to the point where she will be able to have speech. Seems SEE would make communication easier in rural Iowa where she is unlikely to be around other deaf people on a regular basis. Those are just my initial thoughts though. I'm still mulling all of this over."

If that is offensive, someone should have clued me in- and I am truly sorry. However, our Audiologist instructed us to try to formulate our ultimate goal. They gave us an informal list of plausible goals- one of which involved the +/- acquisition of speech. We live in the middle of nowhere. I have to drive over an hour, 50 miles, to buy a pair of pants. My daughter isn't going to run into anyone fluent in ASL, SEE, or any other manual communication out here. No matter how fluent she is in sign, nobody is going to "get it" out here. For that reason, if she can make a sound that communicates a meaning, that's a pretty important goal for us. But it doesn't make her any better or worse than anyone else. If that reasoning is offensive, please find a constructive way to tell me, please.

I respect the Deaf community, ASL, SEE, and all of the above, but I'll never be a part of it. I get that. But I'm the one who is going to raise my daughter, and introduce her to both worlds. This is my starting point, and if I offend, or mess up, or totally botch anything, someone please pull me aside and set me straight. No more talking about life bans behind my back please.

I brought you up, and here is why:

YOU DON'T MEAN IT!!! No way on earth you should be banned!!!! You are learning and having to make choices for your child and you will make some that the people here will like, and probably some that they won't. I think it would be OUTRAGEOUS for someone to call you an audist (which perhaps some of your innocent statements *could* be called by someone seeking a fight).

Each person here has a different life experience and point of view. I think they ALL should be accepted, not just the ones who fit inside a little box.

 

[candybrowneyes]

shel I think it is exactly that and deaf audism is infact deafism. I think there is a little bit of a grey area but it seems this is what it is. I do feel a lot of members here have a distorted point of view on what classifies someone as an Audist because personal thoughts and feelings get in the way.

 

[shel90]

As a hearing person I have never experienced "deafism" -- That is no one from the Deaf community has ever harassed me for being hearing or the quality of my signs -- If anything they have always code switched sufficiently to accommodate me and have always been willing to help me improve my signing skills. Deaf people seem happy that even though I sometimes have difficulty understanding them -- They always seem to understand me.

To me audism is a one way street: and its most visible form is any attempt to suppress sign language, particularly ASL (I live in USA, California, In Britain it would probably be BSL). I have come to expect this attitude from a percentage of the hearing population and pretty well ignore it. By now I should know to expect it from a percentage of the deaf population as well. But it irks hell out of me when it happens.

When I find a deaf person who is extremely difficult to converse with who puts down ASL I find myself taking the attitude, "I'm not going to spend hours fighting to communicate simple things to you just because you are too lazy to learn sign language."

Which probably makes me a hearing person practicing deafism on a deaf person which is really screwed up.

Yea, hearing people can practice deafism and deaf people can practice audism as well.

Just interesting how that happens.

 

[shel90]

shel I think it is exactly that and deaf audism is infact deafism. I think there is a little bit of a grey area but it seems this is what it is. I do feel a lot of members here have a distorted point of view on what classifies someone as an Audist because personal thoughts and feelings get in the way.

In my way of thinking, this is how I see deafism and audism

Deafism is the putting down of other people whether they are deaf or hearing for not coming from a Deaf family, not growing up going to a Deaf school, have poor ASL skills, and have good speech or hearing skills.

Audism is the putting down of ASL, the Deaf community, thinking that CIs or having oral skills equates to a better quality of life, thinking one is better because they have hearing and speaking skills, and that Deaf people arent as capable as hearing people.


That's why I said this thread is about Audism, not Deafism. If Deafism is an issue for some ADers here, then it should be addressed as well.

That's just from my point of view and how I see it.

 

[candybrowneyes]

shel what it all comes down to is people putting something or someone down for something else. People are always going to disagree with another person for what they think is right or wrong and sometimes people need to just agree to disagree and realize that it is okay to have a different point of view.
We went through this thread last night and deleted posts that were aimed at people because of personal opinion. It wasnt right. Naming names and saying people should be banned was very uncalled for. (not saying names) but it just causes animosity that I and you all should not want people who are new to this forum to see it either.

Alldeaf is a community and we accept people as long as they want to accept us. Thats what we are trying to put across to people. I do not think when Mrs Bucket posted this she was thinking it was going to turn into what it did. Like I said before people have a different concept of what Audism is and its hard to convince some people of that because everyone wants to believe they are right. Its the same with any debate here on the forum or offline, is abortion right, up for debate. Is my religion right or is yours, thats up for debate.

I respect everyone here for their points of views and what they have to say until it starts hurting other members for no reason.

 

[candybrowneyes]

deafism and audism are of the same concept, but on THIS forum if someone is being derogatory to ANYONE whether it be Deaf or Hearing or HOH or whatever the case it will not be tolerated. I believe this was the subject at hand.

 

[rockdrummer]

I personally believe deaf audist and deafism go hand-in-hand. There's a reason why they do what they do.

I agree if I understand it correctly. Deafism would not exist without Audism.

 

[rockdrummer]

Mrs Bucket and rockdrummer the two of you could teach many members.. just sayin =)

CBE We all can learn from each-other.

 

[rockdrummer]

Ok so your meaning of deaf people practicing audism would be deaf people thinking they are superiror than other deaf people because they can hear better or have good oral skills?

Just trying to distinguish between Deaf audism and Deafism.

It's not "my" meaning Shel. It's by definition from the man that coined and defined the term and now further substantiated by Wickipedia as quoted here.

 

[rockdrummer]

As a hearing person I have never experienced "deafism" -- That is no one from the Deaf community has ever harassed me for being hearing or the quality of my signs --

To me audism is a one way street: and its most visible form is any attempt to suppress sign language, particularly ASL (I live in USA, California, In Britain it would probably be BSL). I have come to expect this attitude from a percentage of the hearing population and pretty well ignore it. By now I should know to expect it from a percentage of the deaf population as well. But it irks hell out of me when it happens.

When I find a deaf person who is extremely difficult to converse with who puts down ASL I find myself taking the attitude, "I'm not going to spend hours fighting to communicate simple things to you just because you are too lazy to learn sign language."

Which probably makes me a hearing person practicing deafism on a deaf person which is really screwed up.

Again, if I understand Deafism correctly, you may never even know that a deaf person distrusts you and believes you are automatically an Audist. It's not something that I think will always manifest itself to be noticeable and we can't read minds.

I don't necessarily agree with you that just because someone has not learned sign language that they are lazy.

 

[rockdrummer]

Originally Posted by iowaboy
Someone tipped me off that you all were talking about me.

Look, I've never really knowingly met a Deaf person. I don't know what Audism is. I don't know if it's taboo to have said the following in a post:

"There aren't many resources in this area. Our hospital has an ASL interpreter on call, but has never used her. The Deaf community here seems pretty non-existent. The one thing we have going for us is that my aunt is an ASL interpreter. She lives over an hour away, but has been sending us good books and resources, and is going to try to stop in once every couple of weeks.

My first thought is to learn signs and use Signed Exact English, thinking that we will try to enhance her hearing by whatever method to the point where she will be able to have speech. Seems SEE would make communication easier in rural Iowa where she is unlikely to be around other deaf people on a regular basis. Those are just my initial thoughts though. I'm still mulling all of this over."

If that is offensive, someone should have clued me in- and I am truly sorry. However, our Audiologist instructed us to try to formulate our ultimate goal. They gave us an informal list of plausible goals- one of which involved the +/- acquisition of speech. We live in the middle of nowhere. I have to drive over an hour, 50 miles, to buy a pair of pants. My daughter isn't going to run into anyone fluent in ASL, SEE, or any other manual communication out here. No matter how fluent she is in sign, nobody is going to "get it" out here. For that reason, if she can make a sound that communicates a meaning, that's a pretty important goal for us. But it doesn't make her any better or worse than anyone else. If that reasoning is offensive, please find a constructive way to tell me, please.

I respect the Deaf community, ASL, SEE, and all of the above, but I'll never be a part of it. I get that. But I'm the one who is going to raise my daughter, and introduce her to both worlds. This is my starting point, and if I offend, or mess up, or totally botch anything, someone please pull me aside and set me straight. No more talking about life bans behind my back please.

I brought you up, and here is why:

YOU DON'T MEAN IT!!! No way on earth you should be banned!!!! You are learning and having to make choices for your child and you will make some that the people here will like, and probably some that they won't. I think it would be OUTRAGEOUS for someone to call you an audist (which perhaps some of your innocent statements *could* be called by someone seeking a fight).

Each person here has a different life experience and point of view. I think they ALL should be accepted, not just the ones who fit inside a little box.

I agree with you on this. When I first came here I made some mistakes and assumptions based solely on my ignorance. It's part of the learning process and nobody should be banned for trying to learn.

 

[Mrs Bucket]

shel I think it is exactly that and deaf audism is infact deafism. I think there is a little bit of a grey area but it seems this is what it is. I do feel a lot of members here have a distorted point of view on what classifies someone as an Audist because personal thoughts and feelings get in the way.

CBE, you defined deafism correctly. You will never see me practise deafism again because if I were to do deafism again, I actually harm myself and my community.

I learned about audism and deafism; I evolved from this & became a better person.

Alldeaf is a community and we accept people as long as they want to accept us. Thats what we are trying to put across to people. I do not think when Mrs Bucket posted this she was thinking it was going to turn into what it did.

When I proposed the Audism policy, I didn't have the idea of this policy being a witch hunt; quite the last thing in mind. I will admit if this thread does more damage than good. I will request this thread to be closed.

I cannot do more damage than good to this community; our community.

 

[KristinaB]

I am so confused now, that I am afraid to speak up about anything for fear that I will offend someone. Forgive me if I am silent for awhile. It has never been my intention to do the wrong thing in my journey to learn about the deaf community and deaf culture. I apologize now if I came across wrong. I am done.