McCain: Obama needs to get tougher on Iran

[Liebling:-)))]

why? by your logic - US should not interfere in another country's affair so we should not help Darfur or any other country.

Because many Iranians said that they do not need other countries´s help. Simple respect their wish. They know we support them.

 

[Hear Again]

Jiro,

The difference is that we have a reason to be in Darfur and Afghanistan -- unlike Iraq.

 

[Jiro]

I thought you know?

Google is open for ANY questions.

So please provide it for me then.

Who says that I don´t like America policy?

It doesn´t mean that I don´t like America policy because I disagree some of US policy and take other sides because I beleive in take both sides.

:roll:

How can you believe in both sides if you take other side? You're not making any sense at all. It's very obvious - you never liked American policy. :roll:

I take one side? Huh? Look yourself that you and some ADers are very biased to US policy, not listen both sides. What you did is take one side is US policy... I not but take ANY country´s side why I agree or disagree.

I take both sides.

What Obama is doing correct, not McCain and let the Americans and people from other countries support the Iranian people.

Both sides? Then why are you criticizing American policy and listening to Iranian side? Your reasoning is clearly biased which is why you listened to Iranian side.

It's very sad that you cannot see what's happening. Even your German Chancellor is criticizing it....

Please educate yourself on Iran issue - link

 

[Hwy99]

freedom? i'm sorry but no. there is only one type of freedom. Freedom means free speech, free election, equality for all, etc. In Iran - there is NO free speech, NO free election, NO equality, NONE NONE NONE. That's why we Americans criticize Iran. We want freedom for Iran. My Iranian friend wants freedom for Iran too. That's why his family moved to USA. Iran needs to be in 21st century, not 13th century or whatsoever.

I think that opinion about changing Iran into like USA freedom system is sort of selfish against their culture. If people don't like it in Iran, they have to fight it out to change for themselves, but if they want to stay to be strong religious unlike the USA, it's their choices. Not our, the American's choice, nor was it our land?

Like I said - what kind of country does not guarantee the rival's safety? What kind of country puts a heavy censorship on protests and rally? What kind of country launches the goonie squad aka Basijis on people - shooting, beating, arresting, etc.?

All countries are welcome to watch out for or take a look at other countries's backs.

We don't do that in America or any other freedom countries like Japan, Korea, Germany, UK, etc. We do not respect any nations who publicly threaten America.

And we never can expect it to be all the same.

 

[Jiro]

Jiro,

The difference is that we have a reason to be in Darfur and Afghanistan -- unlike Iraq.

so you have no problem allowing Saddam and his 2 tyrannical sons terrorizing Iraqis including underaged girls who were sexually exploited by them on regular basis?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

but we're interfering with their domestic affair and government. We're not just merely providing aid. We changed their way of life, replaced the government, and more.

No the USA have no right to dictate to the world.

 

[Jiro]

Because many Iranians said that they do not need other countries´s help. Simple respect their wish. They know we support them.

huh? but the news I found says that many Iranians want FREEDOM for Iran. They support our side.

Living in Iran: Your views

I live in Shiraz and it is not like Tehran where there is almost always a protest. I have not been in any protests myself but I closely follow the events and some friends of mine in Tehran keep me posted on the latest news. For a time I was hopeful that these protests would lead to some dramatic changes but I don't think this is going to happen.

People were doubtful if Khamenei would step down from his hardline stance and his speech today confirmed that he would never stop supporting the selected president.

People all feel they have been betrayed. I know lots of them who took part in the election in this regime for the first time including my father but the massive rigging ruined all the hopes of change.

Iranians have some terrible habits. One of them is that their "historic memory" is so weak. They easily forget things; and their other bad habit is that they are used to coping with everyone and everything.

I think the protests will calm down after a few weeks and they will all go back to their normal life because they have got to eat. The recent unrests have had a heavy impact on the market. They will finally say: Well we put up with Ahmadinejad for four years, we have to do it again.

Their main concern is the economy and the soaring inflation rate in Iran. Their other worry is the antagonistic state of affairs with Israel. Iranians are peace-loving people. We do not hate the world or Israel or America. We are everybody's friend, but unfortunately the state media has been drawing such a black pictures of Iran in the world that everybody thinks we are a bunch of Islamic fanatics.

Eighty per cent of the people I know do not even practice their faith. We are just born Muslims. We are not terrorists and what the authorities say only represents their frame of mind and not that of the people of Iran. Ahmadinejad and people like him do not represent Iran. They only represent the people who have appointed them.

You can easily see the difference by taking a cursory look at the people who take part in the government-staged rallies and the spontaneous pro-Moussavi rallies.

In the government-staged rallies you see a bunch of old, bearded people and women dressed in black chadors, but supporters of Moussavi are young, educated, and open-minded.

Back to the subject of protests, none of the friends I have talked to were expecting a drastic change. They all knew what Khamenei would say and his remarks did not come to us as a surprise. People openly comment on the current affairs but only with their friends and not strangers because they think there is always this Big Brother and he is always out there but we just can't see him.

In the first few days after the election, or I'd better say selection, people all talked of massive rigging and that their votes had been stolen. We all want change but we know this regime is so brutal that they won't hesitate to shed blood.

People of the world must know that the Iranian people are very different from the government. We all want religion to be separated from government and we want some air to breathe freely.

Most of the educated young are emigrating from Iran and this flow of immigration will increase in the next four years. I am also thinking of emigrating next year.

I have been working outside of Tehran this week, so haven't been at any of the rallies but some of my colleagues have participated. Frankly, I am very proud of my people now. Before I felt that all the years of suppression and economic recession in Iran had affected the mind of my people. I thought that had made them narrow minded and closed minded.

But, after seeing the people on the streets before the election, I became optimistic. There was a light of hope in their eyes. I understood that the lies had not worked. The closeness of society and pretending that everything is right had not worked. People were anxious for a change.

That was why many many people attended the election. I felt that Iranians really are concerned about their future, about their country's future. That was so important for me.

People are afraid of being arrested, but for some reason they continue going to rallies. Maybe because till now there was no leader, there was not a person to challenge the government and call the present president a liar. That was a big blow to the government and its supporters.

The other really important factor has been communication. Internet and satellite helped the activists a lot and let others enlighten the minds of people and that is the most dangerous thing the regime is afraid of.

Everyday I have received a couple of emails relating to the rallies, or photos etc. The worrying thing is that for two days I have not received such emails. There is a lot of censorship in the capital and the internet speed is so low that it is not possible to log in. My people have the right to know.

It was interesting that there was a programme by the BBC about the outcome of four years of Ahmadinejad's presidency on the economic situation of Iran, but this was in English.

What percentage of people in Iran understand English and what percentage have access to satellite? I think it would be good if this programme was in Farsi and I think it would be good if other countries invested in getting better access for our poor people, villages and small cities to such programmes.

Our national TV is full of hatred, down with this country and down with that country, etc. - always brainwashing the people about the existence of an enemy. Unfortunately I think only a narrow margin of people have access to internet or satellite TV. We need your help with this, to brighten the mind of people who do not have access to the right information.

The other important thing is to create hope and encouragement in my people. I think that after today's speech by Khamenei, people will not dare take part in rallies anymore (I hope I will be proved wrong) and there will not be a re-election (I hope I will be wrong on this one also). If this happens, Iranians will be very discouraged which would not be productive at all.

It is important to educate Iranians that democracy cannot be created overnight and they should look at the improvements rather than the final goal.

In this way, they will not consider themselves as losers but actually winners. Probably the story of how other countries created the democracy in their society would help.

 

[Jiro]

No the USA have no right to dictate to the world.

link please? Show me example of how USA dictated to the world. Next time - please provide proof/examples/link to your allegations.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

But European Union is criticizing Iran election too.

EU leaders step up Iran election criticism

Here's your German Chancellor - "German Chancellor Angela Merkel said the speech, in which Khamenei attacked foreign powers for questioning the election results, was "disappointing"."

German foreign ministry notes irregularities in Iran election

wow, very good links...

I thought those 2 links, you disagree with those 2 links, you posted?

I do not see anything that EU Government get tougher on Iran to match the title of my thread what McCain want for Obama but express their view and how much they disappointed. It´s okay to express their view why they are disappoint or not. Yes every country can criticizing other country´s election but they do not interfering in other country´s election.


This is a difference.

 

[Jiro]

wow, very good links...

I thought those 2 links, you disagree with those 2 links, you posted?

I do not see anything that EU Government get tougher on Iran to match the title of my thread what McCain want for Obama but express their view and how much they disappointed. It´s okay to express their view why they are disappoint or not. Yes every country can criticizing other country´s election but they do not interfering in other country´s election.


This is a difference.

can you please tell me how we interfered with Iran election? We're doing same thing as EU - criticize and expressed concern.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

So please provide it for me then.

I posted the link in other thread several days ago. If you can´t find then you can find it via google.

I must say that I am really surprised that you didn´t know that.

How can you believe in both sides if you take other side? You're not making any sense at all. It's very obvious - you never liked American policy. :roll:

You assume what you want. It´s not my problem. I beleive in judge who right or wrong on both sides.

Both sides? Then why are you criticizing American policy and listening to Iranian side? Your reasoning is clearly biased which is why you listened to Iranian side.

I lost my faith to Bush Admin. soon after Saddam´s arrest. This is all.

Do you have problem that I criticizing US policy?

I LISTEN both US and Iran sides. It´s not my problem when you interpreted my post in the wrong way.

I am trying to convince you positive that Iranian people do not have hatre feeling toward Americans. Its not my problem that you loves to see negative on Iran, not try to look their positive side over America.

It's very sad that you cannot see what's happening. Even your German Chancellor is criticizing it....

Please educate yourself on Iran issue - link

Yes I do know Iran history.

for link. I will read the link and let you know what I view later.


Of course German chancellor can criticizing what she think but she do not interfering Iran´s election like what McCain want for Obama.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

can you please tell me how we interfered with Iran election? We're doing same thing as EU - criticize and expressed concern.

Please re-read the title of thread, I created and ask you all for your opinoion on McCain toward Obama.

I expressed my view why I gave Obama right.

 

[Jiro]

You still have not told me any single thing on how we have interfered with Iran election. All I hear is from you. I have already provided you links about what Iranians said about their own government. I don't understand why you don't believe them.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I think that opinion about changing Iran into like USA freedom system is sort of selfish against their culture. If people don't like it in Iran, they have to fight it out to change for themselves, but if they want to stay to be strong religious unlike the USA, it's their choices. Not our, the American's choice, nor was it our land?



All countries are welcome to watch out for or take a look at other countries's backs.



And we never can expect it to be all the same.

We should treat each other with respectful.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

You still have not told me any single thing on how we have interfered with Iran election. All I hear is from you. I have already provided you links about what Iranians said about their own government. I don't understand why you don't believe them.

Go back and re-read your own posts.

You can critizing whatever you want but you agree with McCain for want Obama to get tougher on Iran. No...nooo ... nooo Obama is right to stay out of other country´s election. Obama can critizing or express whatever he wants, but not that what McCain want him.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

link please? Show me example of how USA dictated to the world. Next time - please provide proof/examples/link to your allegations.

Example: nuclear weapons...

 

[Jiro]

Example: nuclear weapons...

Again - you have not answered my question. Who is more likely to threaten with nuclear weapon? Iran or USA?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Again - you have not answered my question. Who is more likely to threaten with nuclear weapon? Iran or USA?

Yes I remember your question in other thread. I want to answer you in other thread but I got bad day. You will get my answer in other thread later.

I have to go now to fix the breakfast and see you all later.

 

[Foxrac]

Interesting... you are bitter over what and how Iran did over 30 years ago accord your previous posts and find okay what and how Reagon Admin. did...

:scratch:

Are you saying that you are free to criticize my comment that´s because I entitle my view over that article, I posted? This is disrespectful of you to criticize my view. Don´t you know how to handle the debate with agreement to disagreement. Have you read AD Rules to use common sense when you want to disagree with me?

I can criticize ANY articles, ADers posted and quoted ADers with common sense why I agree or disagree to, not criticize ADer´s view.

I am tiring of your personal posts on my view posts. I am free to say why I am agree or disagree instead of criticize you.

Where´s your respect?

Re-read your own posts # 33 & 35 more carefully what you said to me.

Yes, I am neutral and take both sides between US and Iran. I can judge who is right or wrong. All what I see here is very biased comment which is not right. The problem is you refused to see it.

Of course I know that we are talking about Iran and US, not others. Could you show me where I bring up "others"? All what I see your posts after my first response post that you brought up Germany and very bitter over 30 years old issues what and how Iran did to Americans in first place. Its election, I referring to my view accord the article in my first post. I really don´t have idea why you took my view personal.

You don't have much respect about our culture and society, you just want see any change by yourself.

Relation on between Iran and US were severe because of hostage crisis and US embassy bombing in 1983, Reagan admin has turned into tough on Iran, that why and Carter were tried to get along with new leader until Iranian students storm in US embassy, that leading to hostage crisis for 444 days and US went broke the relation with Iran, we don't have any chance to get along with new revolutionary leader because they know that we support shah in past due oil and other important mineral.

In Iran, there's no religious freedom, that's big problem because you are agnostic or none and I'm Christian, that's illegal to praise or practice any religions that is other than Islam and you could face severe punishment, such as flogging, hanging or stoning, also you are aware of gay teenagers got executed in Iran and we cannot stop them but we could impose the tougher sanction or embargo against Iran until human rights has start loosen up. I wouldn't want go to Iran, unless there's religious freedom, that's similar to Egypt.

I don't want declare the war against Iran but their government need alot of work, there's no religious freedom, no personal freedom, women don't have any much freedom, heavily censorship on media and internet, there's over millions of Iranians want their country to be change and we could provide any assist, such as funds, food or weapons, that's up to our congress and government.

Your thread has turned into heat debate, you are left wing and I'm right wing, both of you and I will never get many agreement.

Anti-America remark is intolerant and strictly unacceptable in our country, I think you are supposed to know better over anti-America remark, our government wouldn't cooperate with Iran or some other countries until government has stop spread of anti-America remark, that's part of threat to our country, I'm not kidding and I got offended by you for label me as lacks of knowledge over situation with America.

 

[Foxrac]

Example: nuclear weapons...

No, Not just only for US, also there's organization that's who responsible to take care about nuclear energy, it known as IAEA and there's some countries are condemn with Iran over nuclear energy because Iran government is unstable and make any threat against Israel, even Israel don't confirm if they have nuclear weapon or not. Iranian president want Israel to be wipe off from map, that put them in threat.

Pakistan made mistake to develop the nuclear weapon in 90's and now, their government is unstable and they have find more good citizens to secure of nuclear weapon, it could be takeover by terrorist to cause any nuclear warfare against western countries, including Germany.

Same with NK but NK was very stubborn.