Trying to understand

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KDM

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When I am talking (typing on msn) with my friend. Or when we are signing (I am still learning ASL). The way we talk is very different. The grammar is very different.
I have been reading the thread about the differences between SEE and ASL. It is helping me to understand more about why we talk so different. I would like to have a better understanding though. Sometimes we misunderstand what the other is trying to say because of the gap in the cultures and grammar.
I REALLY want to bridge the gap. Is there a written format or something I can read that will help me understand a little better, about the format of ASL? Maybe a website, or an explanation??

Thank you for your help. This site is VERY helpful!!!
 
In any signing, they do not say the word by word in order to complete the sentence. if that's what you mean?
 
I think KDM is referring to the difference between ASL and SEE. SEE is basically the same thing as English. There is no difference between SEE and English. However, ASL is a completely different language. When somebody uses ASL as their first language, it means that English is a second language to them. So it is kind of like any other person for whom English is not their first language...their grammar will resemble ASL grammar more than English grammar.

ASL definitely says things in the right order to make complete sentences...it's just a different order from English. :)
 
The way the books I have for ASL tell me - the difference is SEE is in Englis grammatical order and ASL has it's own grammar order. ASL uses Object, Subject, Verb.

Ex: The boy plays with the ball.

SEE - The boy plays with the ball.

ASL - ball, boy plays.

All those in the know - please correct me if I am wrong.
 
Etoile said:
I think KDM is referring to the difference between ASL and SEE. SEE is basically the same thing as English. There is no difference between SEE and English. However, ASL is a completely different language. When somebody uses ASL as their first language, it means that English is a second language to them. So it is kind of like any other person for whom English is not their first language...their grammar will resemble ASL grammar more than English grammar.

ASL definitely says things in the right order to make complete sentences...it's just a different order from English. :)
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What is a good way to learn and understand better? Is there a resource that I can find or have access to on the internet that will help me learn ASL better? I am finding that it is one thing to learn the hand signs. But then I have to learn to put them in the right structure to make sense.

Thank you again for helping. This is really important to me:ty:
 
So when one person is signing in SEE and the other person is signing in ASL and both are deaf. Is there any difficulty in understanding each other if they do not have a second language?

Thank you
 
I've learned that ASL is based on the French language.. afterall Thomas Gallaudet did go to France to learn more about sign language and educating the deaf, and he came back with Laurent Clerc and they developed ASL for use in the U.S., if I remember that right. The sentence structure of ASL is supposedly similar to the French language, which could partially explain why ASL is very different from English/SEE. I don't know if I read that somewhere or if I was just taught that in the personalized ASL class my school interpreter held for myself and another deaf student when we were in 8th grade (it allowed us to get out of the French class but still learn a different language/culture).
 
Okay, here I am deaf -- I do admit that I mostly write in ASL as if, I am signin' in ASL. My hearin' bf was tellin' me that he sometimes misunderstood me, because I was writin' the HALF story. :giggle: It doesn't mean that I am lazy to write in a perfect English or language. It's just that I am usin' ASL in my entire life while growin' up. Of course, I do know SEE. I am more comfortable with ASL as my first language. :aw:
 
KDM said:
So when one person is signing in SEE and the other person is signing in ASL and both are deaf. So there any difficulty in understanding each other if they do not have a second language?

Thank you
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There is some difficulties because ASL has it's own vocabulary, grammar and syntax that would not be close to English, and SEE is a sign that is more closer to English, and when you have two different singers signing to each others, there will be some misunderstanding, miscommunicate, but we can always ask for clarification. But, most of the time facial expressions help convey meaning of what the deaf person is really saying in signs, also some of us read lips, we do watch the speaker's lips as well if we do not understand their signs. ;)
 
I often text my deaf friend and her english reflects that it is not her native language (just like my signing reflects that asl is not mine). If i have difficulty diciphering what she's saying, i can usually figure it out by re-signing it to myself.
 
KDM said:
What is a good way to learn and understand better? Is there a resource that I can find or have access to on the internet that will help me learn ASL better? I am finding that it is one thing to learn the hand signs. But then I have to learn to put them in the right structure to make sense.

Thank you again for helping. This is really important to me:ty:
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It is not good to learn from a resource or book if you are looking for a way to communicate with the deaf person. You will just look up for context or a better sign word to communicate with the deaf person. You will have to ask the deaf person what he/she mean what he/she says because both of you are talking in different ways of sign language with ASL or SEE. Don't be afraid to ask the deaf person. Every one of us have different way to sign like dialect. Hope that help you understand what I am trying to say. :cool2:
 
Nathan said:
:eek3: Impossible is nothing. It's still ASL to me. Speaking ASL in proper English is good manner. To each his own...
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No, ASL in English word order is not ASL, it is either SEE or PSE. Only ASL in ASL sign order, with all of the grammatical markers and qualifiers is ASL. It doesn't have anything to do with good manners. If Ispeak French in English word order, I am not speaking French. I am using French words in a distorted way and generally, they will make no sense to a a Frenchman.
 
society's_child said:
I often text my deaf friend and her english reflects that it is not her native language (just like my signing reflects that asl is not mine). If i have difficulty diciphering what she's saying, i can usually figure it out by re-signing it to myself.
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Yeah that's another way you could do it. ;)
 
I think it's hard to say who truly signs in ASL. I've seen different people who claim to be fluent in ASL. Yet, they all sign differently. So, how am I to determine who is following true ASL?

To answer your question, it varies on the individual. I've seen people who sign ASL in a way that even a hearing person couldn't understand because that person grew up with almost a total lack of English grammar. Even I had a hard time understanding that person. I've also seen people who sign ASL and even when they don't follow proper English structure... I can still understand them.

I guess it takes skill and the ability to adapt to any form of ASL.
 
VamPyroX said:
I think it's hard to say who truly signs in ASL. I've seen different people who claim to be fluent in ASL. Yet, they all sign differently. So, how am I to determine who is following true ASL?

To answer your question, it varies on the individual. I've seen people who sign ASL in a way that even a hearing person couldn't understand because that person grew up with almost a total lack of English grammar. Even I had a hard time understanding that person. I've also seen people who sign ASL and even when they don't follow proper English structure... I can still understand them.

I guess it takes skill and the ability to adapt to any form of ASL.
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Well, I suppose the same way we decide who is speaking true English. I would suggest that no one speaks true English. It has evolved into what we have today, and phrasing of certain word combinations varies between regions. But if the language adheres to the basic rules and qualifications that define it as English, it is called English. Same with ASL.
 
VamPyroX said:
I think it's hard to say who truly signs in ASL. I've seen different people who claim to be fluent in ASL. Yet, they all sign differently. So, how am I to determine who is following true ASL?
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That's correct, I've seen it too. ;)

Remember the time you signed "soon" I thought you were signing for the word "fag". :giggle:
 
jillio said:
No, ASL in English word order is not ASL, it is either SEE or PSE. Only ASL in ASL sign order, with all of the grammatical markers and qualifiers is ASL. It doesn't have anything to do with good manners. If Ispeak French in English word order, I am not speaking French. I am using French words in a distorted way and generally, they will make no sense to a a Frenchman.
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Right. It seems that Nathan is using ASL sign vocabulary in an English structure, which would put the signing on the PSE or CASE continuum but not as ASL.
 
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