Survey of Bi-Bi programs - Empirical Article

[Cheri]

Before the Milan Conference, Deaf people were reading and writing on par with their hearing counterparts. *shrug*


This was in Netherlands...

The empirical data, quite interestingly, do showthat
there is a strong and positive relationship between signing
and reading skills (Chamberlain & Mayberry, 2000;
Hoffmeister, 2000; Mann, 2006; Padden & Ramsey,
2000; Parisot, Dubuisson, Lelievre, Vercaingne-
Menard, & Villeneuve, 2005; Prinz, 2002; Strong &
Prinz, 1997, 2000). For instance, Strong and Prinz
studied the relationship between the signing skills
and the reading skills of a group of 155 deaf children
between 8 and 15 years old. They found a strong correlation
between signing skills and reading skills, even
after age and nonverbal intelligence were partialled
out. In general, deaf children with good signing skills
were also the better readers.


The Relationship Between the Reading and Signing Skills of
Deaf Children in Bilingual Education Programs
520 Journal of Deaf Studies and Deaf Education 13:4 Fall 2008

155 deaf children out of what? 50,000 deaf children? Thanks that sure gonna help me.

 

[Daredevel7]

My favorite line in the conclusion of that article: "Intellectual functioning of deaf adults and children: Answers and questions"

"For those interested in intelligence and the relations of verbal and nonverbal
processes, deaf individuals have always presented a puzzling case."

We are so puzzling! oooo! We are mysterious!

 

[shel90]

155 deaf children out of what? 50,000 deaf children? Thanks that sure gonna help me.

If u dont want to believe research, then the only alternative suggestion I have for u is to do a research of your own and test samples or work in the field of deaf ed.

This was in the Netherlands...the same studies have been conducted in Sweden, US, and many other countries and they all show similar findings. *shrug*

 

[shel90]

The point is, it seems to me that educators were no clearer on the best way to teach deaf, since deaf people were mute during the 19 centuries ago, Then sign language became forbidden and the oral teaching method was adopted, then cued speech, then TC, and now Bi-Bi, the same old debates continue. At this point no one approach has been proven to be more effective for the majority of deaf.[/QUOTE]


Source, pls or is that based on your personal experiences?

 

[Cheri]

Source, pls or is that based on your personal experiences?

What do you mean based on my experience? I wasn't there during the 19 centuries ago. I'm talking about from 19 century ago and now, nothing had proven me that one approach is more effective for the majority of deaf.

 

[shel90]

My favorite line in the conclusion of that article: "Intellectual functioning of deaf adults and children: Answers and questions"

"For those interested in intelligence and the relations of verbal and nonverbal
processes, deaf individuals have always presented a puzzling case."

We are so puzzling! oooo! We are mysterious!

I am going to pick my son up..I took a personal day off from work due to some situation at my bank and getting a mental break..now my mind is much clearer. I will answer your questions on PM when I get back and after I cooked dinner.

 

[shel90]

:

What do you mean based on my experience? I wasn't there during the 19 centuries ago. I'm talking about from 19 century ago and now, nothing had proven me that one approach is more effective for the majority of deaf.

Look at the bolded statement u made. U are making a statement about Deaf ed so I would like to know your source or your experience to why u dont believe in that.

Now, like Jillo asked u many times...how can we solve the literacy problems with many deaf children in the educational system? *not at the home because that's another separate issue*

Use the "wait and see" approach
or use the language of instruction that all deaf children will guarantee to have full access to?

 

[Cheri]

If u dont want to believe research, then the only alternative suggestion I have for u is to do a research of your own and test samples or work in the field of deaf ed.

This was in the Netherlands...the same studies have been conducted in Sweden, US, and many other countries and they all show similar findings. *shrug*

Where did I say I didn't believe it? Didn't happen, so therefore don't assume. 155 deaf children does not seem a lot to me not for the majority, that's my point.

 

[shel90]

Where did I say I didn't believe it? Didn't happen, so therefore don't assume. 155 deaf children does not seem a lot to me not for the majority, that's my point.

and that was one of several research conducted about the correlation between sign language and deaf children's literacy skills. I have provided 4 different research in this thread..they all found similar findings and in my Deaf ed training, we read many others with the same findings...so in each research, there are numerous of samples of Deaf children that were taken.

 

[Cheri]

Look at the bolded statement u made. U are making a statement about Deaf ed so I would like to know your source or your experience to why u dont believe in that.

I already answered it, my very first post says it all. Re-read again, not just the bottom of my post--last sentence but the whole post.

 

[rockdrummer]

.........., the same old debates continue. At this point no one approach has been proven to be more effective for the majority of deaf.

Exactly!!

 

[shel90]

I already answered it, my very first post says it all. Re-read again, not just the bottom of my post--last sentence but the whole post.

so my assumptions are correct, u believe in the "wait and see" approach which has put a lot of deaf children at risks. Nothing further needs to be argued since u believe in that so no point in discussing the benefits of the BiBi approach.

 

[shel90]

Exactly!!

Then there is no point in discussing the benefits of the BiBi approach after I have used 4 different research in 3 different countries to support my argument? Tell me so I wont continue to waste my time and efforts. Jillo gave up..I gave u citations that u asked me of a while ago and I said I would try my best so ...

I guess the "wait and approach" will still stay in Deaf Ed and I will just continue to keep on doing remedial work with those kids who fell so far behind because they werrent provided full acess to language, communication, information, and education all their lives.

Thanks for preparing me for the future. As long as people continue to approve of the "wait and see" approach, we are more likely to continue to see problems in Deaf education.

At least in the other countries, on the political level, they are taking notice of this worldwide problem with literacy rates of Deaf children.

This is not to bash but just wonder why keep arguing about BiBi programs if nobody is gonna try to open up their minds about it.

I think I may be done here.

 

[Cheri]

so my assumptions are correct, u believe in the "wait and see" approach which has put a lot of deaf children at risks. Nothing further needs to be argued since u believe in that so no point in discussing the benefits of the BiBi approach.

And ASL did not put deaf children at risk? Yes, speech. That's why I said no wonder why deaf children were mute in the 19 centuries nobody had taught those deaf to speak during the time ASL was around. Don't even go there with the "wait and see" approach. I don't trust none of them, how about that?

 

[shel90]

And ASL did not put deaf children at risk? Yes, speech. That's why I said no wonder why deaf children were mute in the 19 centuries nobody had taught those deaf to speak during the time ASL was around. Don't even go there with the "wait and see" approach. I don't trust none of them, how about that?

ASL put deaf children at risks? Interesting. Your belief but I have seen proof of the total opposite and I have provided research supporting my statements about ASL enchancing literacy rates. If u can find several research (no I dont want just one) supporting that ASL puts deaf children at risk, pls post them here. Otherwise, it is just your opinion.

 

[Cheri]

ASL put deaf children at risks? Interesting. Your belief but I have seen proof of the total opposite and I have provided research supporting my statements about ASL enchancing literacy rates. If u can find several research (no I dont want just one) supporting that ASL puts deaf children at risk, pls post them here. Otherwise, it is just your opinion.

Pay attention, I said "speech" "speech" "speech". Then tell me why were the deaf children didn't speak? why were they mute?? there's a reason for it, everything has a reason. If you think you know why, you tell me.

 

[Jiro]

And ASL did not put deaf children at risk? Yes, speech. That's why I said no wonder why deaf children were mute in the 19 centuries nobody had taught those deaf to speak during the time ASL was around. Don't even go there with the "wait and see" approach. I don't trust none of them, how about that?

I'm not even going to considered 19th century as an example. Disability-related issues were much less understood than now and anybody with disability was considered invalid and useless. Their approach was like trying to teach a handicapped man to walk and blind man to see. They were using wrong approach and wrong tools.... due to misconceptions, misunderstanding, and taboo.

 

[Cheri]

Bilingual-Bicultural Education of Deaf/Hard-of-Hearing Children


"At this point research reveals that no one approach has been proven to be more effective than another for educational purposes (Bornstein, 1990, p. 189). Many that have researched this topic agree that the effectiveness of Bi-Bi education for the deaf still needs to be researched."

"A majority of the respondents felt that this program's effectiveness depends on the individual child's needs."

"There are so many different language systems being used, and Bi-Bi is one other approach, but uses a real language. Because each child is so different, it would be impossible to say that this program would benefit all children. Not all children are culturally Deaf: what does that mean for the hearing parents of a deaf child? This approach seems to be geared for those that are culturally Deaf, because when the child enters the school his first language truly is American Sign Language. "

I rest my case... Here.. I provided my source, Shel90.

 

[Jiro]

Bilingual-Bicultural Education of Deaf/Hard-of-Hearing Children


"At this point research reveals that no one approach has been proven to be more effective than another for educational purposes (Bornstein, 1990, p. 189). Many that have researched this topic agree that the effectiveness of Bi-Bi education for the deaf still needs to be researched."

"A majority of the respondents felt that this program's effectiveness depends on the individual child's needs."

"There are so many different language systems being used, and Bi-Bi is one other approach, but uses a real language. Because each child is so different, it would be impossible to say that this program would benefit all children. Not all children are culturally Deaf: what does that mean for the hearing parents of a deaf child? This approach seems to be geared for those that are culturally Deaf, because when the child enters the school his first language truly is American Sign Language. "

I rest my case... Here.. I provided my source, Shel90.

but.... that was 18 years ago and his studies & researches were most likely based on 1980's or back when he published his 1990 report so I'd say this is pretty damn outdated and has somewhat a weak basis in today's debate. It's better to use argument from 2000's.

Here's the part you omitted from the source you provided -

Many college students are unfamiliar with the Bi-Bi programs.

Many educators that responded feel like they need more information, but are aware of the program.

All of the culturally Deaf respondents felt they were knowledgeable of these programs.

Almost all educators felt this program should serve the individual needs of a child.

yea there you go.. just to show you how it was less understood at that time.

 

[Cloggy]

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