Start with spoken language or ASL?

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jillio said:
Oh, sure....you were single handedly the impetus for a reform in deaf education. And A.G. Bell taught Helen Keller sign language, too.:roll:
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I didn't say I did it alone.

A.G. Bell can sign.


Also, an idea can change the world. I've seen it and it went from better to worse.
 
imdeafsowhat said:
I didn't say I did it alone.

A.G. Bell can sign.


Also, an idea can change the world. I've seen it and it went from better to worse.
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A.G. Bell can't do anything. He is dead. And he was an oralist, meaning no sign. The organization that bears his name adheres to the same oralist, audist prinicples as the man himself did. Please educate yourself regarding these matters.

Ideas can also ruin the world. Example: the idea of oral only education for deaf children that has resulted in reduced academic functioning for the population as a whole.
 
loml said:
Very true imdeafsowhat, you didn't.
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Nor has it been done since the Milan Conference. Still adhering to the same old same old philosophies based on an oral perspective. Time for the revolution to occur. And it won't happen by reviving a 40 year old technique from the dead.
 
jillio said:
A.G. Bell can't do anything. He is dead. And he was an oralist, meaning no sign. The organization that bears his name adheres to the same oralist, audist prinicples as the man himself did. Please educate yourself regarding these matters.

Ideas can also ruin the world. Example: the idea of oral only education for deaf children that has resulted in reduced academic functioning for the population as a whole.
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Mr. Bell can sign. Fingerspelling were his speciality. I think I saw it in a movie of Helen Keller, very very old movie. I need to watch it again. I once did a report on A.G. and it clearly said he was losing his hearings.

Nevertheless, ruining the world could be the only way to change. If it went from better to worse, what could be the harm that there's a chance to ruin the world?
 
Cheri said:
He's wrong, if it doesn't work, then why do I have an excellent speech skills?, most people thinks I'm hearing, when I tell them I'm not, I'm deaf. They wouldn't believe it. :giggle:
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not for speaking. That's a small part of the equation. The bigger part of the equation is listening... and that's where we fail the most. If you have a bad hearing, Lip-Reading is ineffective most of time.. as you said - teacher moving around, not facing directly at you, group setting, etc.
 
Jiro said:
not for speaking. That's a small part of the equation. The bigger part of the equation is listening... and that's where we fail the most. If you have a bad hearing, Lip-Reading is ineffective most of time.. as you said - teacher moving around, not facing directly at you, group setting, etc.
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That's true for some.

Not for me. Lip reading was effective for me, sure you're right, I missed some when the teacher moves around, but I understand, how?

I am merely playing this game in my head, when I miss what the teacher said, I just fill in the blanks with words that complete the sentence and makes sense relating to the subject. It's pretty easy once you get used to it.

Online Education is more effective I think because like my rival, jillio, you research so much that you have to be your own teacher and student. The professor of the online class will only correct your work and criticize. It truly depends on yourself, this is where the SEE comes handy in this situation. English.
 
originally posted by Cheri
He's wrong, if it doesn't work, then why do I have an excellent speech skills?, most people thinks I'm hearing, when I tell them I'm not, I'm deaf. They wouldn't believe it
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Cheri - Personally, aside from the fact that is a difficult question to find the complete answer to, I would not be surprised for you, considering your experience with cueing, that some of your skill with lip-reading can be attributed to cueing.
 
imdeafsowhat said:
Mr. Bell can sign. Fingerspelling were his speciality. I think I saw it in a movie of Helen Keller, very very old movie. I need to watch it again. I once did a report on A.G. and it clearly said he was losing his hearings.

Nevertheless, ruining the world could be the only way to change. If it went from better to worse, what could be the harm that there's a chance to ruin the world?
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How can Mr. Bell sign when he is dead and buried in his grave?
 
Daredevel7 said:
Alright, I give up. You win, Jillio. You've won by throwing a myriad empty interchangable comments such as "your total lack of knowledge", "inefficient logic", "do your research", "you need a wider perspective", and so on.
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No. It's not that Jillio won. It's you who couldn't prove it. Your defense and logic have so many holes that I felt bad for you. The only proof you have is your own experience and a few other friends you know. Sadly... you could not tell me with a higher degree of certainty that your approach for general deaf population in school would produce more success than this approach - "ASL first then Spoken English"

Daredevel7 said:
AI will say something mean. You and Shel90 have both similar (if not the same) arguments, but I have learned SO much from Shel90 and not you because she attached her own personal experiences and even though there were a bit of passive aggressive behavior between us, she was at least diplomatic and down to earth about it.
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I wonder... is it because you choose to IGNORE Jillio over Shel just because Jillio is a hearing person? Since Shel is deaf, she knows it all.... even though both Jillio and Shel said exactly same thing. :hmm:

I believe jillio tried her best to explain it logically and had to step it up to a more aggressive tone when you were being combatant and stubborn. The whole past several pages were basically repeating same message in 10000 different ways hence - "beating around the bush"
 
jillio said:
How can Mr. Bell sign when he is dead and buried in his grave?
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oh let me guess. the wolf is a middleman between Mr. Bell ghost and imdeafsowhat :laugh2:
 
Jiro said:
not for speaking. That's a small part of the equation. The bigger part of the equation is listening... and that's where we fail the most. If you have a bad hearing, Lip-Reading is ineffective most of time.. as you said - teacher moving around, not facing directly at you, group setting, etc.
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Exactly. Listening, and one of the biggest criteria, fluent and proper use of a language. That includes expressive use, as well as receptive, and all it's implications. Simply being able to read a word does not mean that you understand the contextual meaning of that word. Simply being able to speech read a word does not mean that you can infer contextual meaning of the entire sentence. Simply being able to pronounce a word does not mean that you are able to use it or understand it, in all it's various meanings.
 
Jiro said:
No. It's not that Jillio won. It's you who couldn't prove it. Your defense and logic have so many holes that I felt bad for you. The only proof you have is your own experience and a few other friends you know. Sadly... you could not tell me with a higher degree of certainty that your approach for general deaf population in school would produce more success than this approach - "ASL first then Spoken English"


I wonder... is it because you choose to IGNORE Jillio over Shel just because Jillio is a hearing person? Since Shel is deaf, she knows it all.... even though both Jillio and Shel said exactly same thing. :hmm:

I believe jillio tried her best to explain it logically and had to step it up to a more aggressive tone when you were being combatant and stubborn. The whole past several pages were basically repeating same message in 10000 different ways hence - "beating around the bush"
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:ty::ty::ty:

That summed it up very nicely.
 
imdeafsowhat said:
That's true for some.

Not for me. Lip reading was effective for me, sure you're right, I missed some when the teacher moves around, but I understand, how?

I am merely playing this game in my head, when I miss what the teacher said, I just fill in the blanks with words that complete the sentence and makes sense relating to the subject. It's pretty easy once you get used to it.

Online Education is more effective I think because like my rival, jillio, you research so much that you have to be your own teacher and student. The professor of the online class will only correct your work and criticize. It truly depends on yourself, this is where the SEE comes handy in this situation. English.
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I am not your rival. Teacher and student being one and the same leads to no one learning anything.
 
jillio said:
How can Mr. Bell sign when he is dead and buried in his grave?
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No, but in spirit, he can sign, speak 100 language, and says, "jillio, go low on hate and spread the love!"

I know this because the wolf between me and A.G. is the key communication of reality and spirit world.

Also, for me listening, it's like the easiest thing to do because I've been listening since I was a child to all those hearing people. I only had 2 or 3 deaf friends when I was a child going to school. So, you CAN be wrong on those facts since it doesn't apply to everyone.

We are all individuals with different theories, conjectures, opinions, and view of points.
 
This is worth the read.....

This has been provided before, under another topic....but...in case anyone missed it....

Survey of Residential and Day Schools for Deaf Students in the United States That Identify Themselves as Bilingual-Bicultural Programs

Journal of Deaf Studies and Deaf Education 8:1 2003


The purpose of this survey was to determine how many residential and day schools for deaf and hard-of-hearing students in the United States described themselves as bilingual-bicultural (BiBi) programs and to describe characteristics of those programs related to initial implementation, whether a single language (e.g., English or ASL) is promoted as the first language (L1) and the language of instruction for all deaf students, how English is conveyed conversationally to deaf students, the quality of ASL abilities of BiBi instructional and support staff; general characteristics of the curriculum and the specific reading and bicultural components of the curriculum; and characteristics of research being conducted to establish the efficacy of BiBi methods. Ninety-one percent (n = 71) of the 78 day and residential schools listed in the 1998 Directory of the American Annals of the Deaf participated in the survey, with 19 schools identifying themselves as BiBi. These included 16 residential schools and 3 day schools. Depending on the source for numbers of students in residential and day schools at the time of the survey, between 36% and 40% of students were in programs that identified themselves as BiBi. Sixteen of the programs reported becoming a BiBi program between 1989 and 1994 and only three after 1994. Of the 19 programs, 37% reported use of manually coded English (MCE) for conveying English to the students. Fluency in ASL of instructional and support staff varied, with 47% of the programs reporting that no more than half of the instructional staff were fluent in ASL and 68% of the programs reporting that no more than half of the support staff were fluent. Only 21% of the 19 programs reported having a formal BiBi curriculum with annual goals and suggested materials and procedures for teachers. Research implications of these data are discussed
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Survey of Residential and Day Schools for Deaf Students in the United States That Identify Themselves as Bilingual-Bicultural Programs -- LaSasso and Lollis 8 (1): 79 -- The Journal of Deaf Studies and Deaf Education
 
jillio said:
I am not your rival. Teacher and student being one and the same leads to no one learning anything.
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You say that home school is not effective?

Perhaps the teacher should learn something from the student in order to master.

You are the only one who goes against me, yet you refuse to admit that you are my rival.
 
imdeafsowhat said:
No, but in spirit, he can sign, speak 100 language, and says, "jillio, go low on hate and spread the love!"

I know this because the wolf between me and A.G. is the key communication of reality and spirit world.

Also, for me listening, it's like the easiest thing to do because I've been listening since I was a child to all those hearing people. I only had 2 or 3 deaf friends when I was a child going to school. So, you CAN be wrong on those facts since it doesn't apply to everyone.

We are all individuals with different theories, conjectures, opinions, and view of points.
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Yep, we are right in the middle of the Twilight Zone!
 
loml said:
This has been provided before, under another topic....but...in case anyone missed it....

Survey of Residential and Day Schools for Deaf Students in the United States That Identify Themselves as Bilingual-Bicultural Programs

Journal of Deaf Studies and Deaf Education 8:1 2003




Survey of Residential and Day Schools for Deaf Students in the United States That Identify Themselves as Bilingual-Bicultural Programs -- LaSasso and Lollis 8 (1): 79 -- The Journal of Deaf Studies and Deaf Education
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I happen to have the full text version of this article, not just the abstract. We have already discussed extensively the reason that an abstract cannot be used to support anything.

However, if anyone is interested in having the full text version, rather than just an abstract that in no way reveals the true and complete findings of this study, you all know how to contact me.
 
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