It must get tiring!

[jillio]

People can be assertive and respectful at the same time.

Around here, most are. Until the lack of respect for the Deaf perspective has been thrown out once too often.

What these naysayers are failing to recognize is, they are simply getting back what they are putting out.

 

[whatdidyousay!]

I know it wasn't. I just thought Beowulf's comment was funny.

A little argument makes people think.

I agree, it can open people minds up to see things a different way. And when a couple have an argument the makeup sex is the best part.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

What do you want to bet that even after this thread, they still won't get it?

...And, if they don't, you tried. You can't fix the world, Jillio.

 

[jillio]

...And, if they don't, you tried. You can't fix the world, Jillio.

Oh, Heavens! I realize that. But it doesn't stop me from giving it a good hard try!

 

[CSign]

SEE is a language? We say it is not and you say it is.

That is one example. We will defend ASL and do not accept hearing people screwing it up to fit their needs.

I conceded in the first page or two of that thread that SEE itself was not a "language" but that it was another mode if the English language.

 

[Jiro]

I conceded in the first page or two of that thread that SEE itself was not a "language" but that it was another mode if the English language.

right. and there's more left for you to concede. it's part of process.

 

[whatdidyousay!]

I just got an insightful PM from a well respected member.

I'm not going to read the above posts right now, and I also won't respond to them.

I will say; if you all like the fighting, bullying, immature name calling etc., then carry on.

I had good intentions and was hoping that some of us could make a concerted effort going forward for a less hostile environment.

I was reminded though, that I am not always dealing with linear thinking, rational people.

So with that said, if you get off on the hostility and hate keep at it. If you enjoy reading it, keep "liking" those posts and everything will stay the same.

You might lose some people who would benefit from participating, and on the otherhand you might miss out on some good information they have to share.

But so it goes.

Peace.

Wow, so you think people that disagree with you're not rational people. Don't trip over yourself on the way out.

 

[Berry]

I just got an insightful PM from a well respected member.

I'm not going to read the above posts right now, and I also won't respond to them.

I will say; if you all like the fighting, bullying, immature name calling etc., then carry on.

I had good intentions and was hoping that some of us could make a concerted effort going forward for a less hostile environment.

I was reminded though, that I am not always dealing with linear thinking, rational people.

So with that said, if you get off on the hostility and hate keep at it. If you enjoy reading it, keep "liking" those posts and everything will stay the same.

You might lose some people who would benefit from participating, and on the otherhand you might miss out on some good information they have to share.

But so it goes.

Peace.

Linear thinking tends to go with linear language.

ASL users do not use a linear language and do not think in a linear manner.

Logic is a linear form of reason and requires a linear language.

Semantics is a non linear form of reasoning and does not require a linear language -- In fact a linear language gets in the way of understanding.

BTW not all spoken languages are as rigidly linear as English. Spanish, for instance, is far more a language for lovers then for logicians.

Non linear and non logical does not mean non rational. It can, and often does mean "other rational."

I notice in some of the posts above it is suggested that you may be too thin skinned. This may come from your dealing with hearing whites who tend to use rigid formality such as "Robert's Rules of Order" rather than developing skills with verbal sparing.

May I suggest you read "The Gentle Art of Verbal Self Defense" by Suzette Hadin Elgin.

 

[shel90]

I just got an insightful PM from a well respected member.

I'm not going to read the above posts right now, and I also won't respond to them.

I will say; if you all like the fighting, bullying, immature name calling etc., then carry on.

I had good intentions and was hoping that some of us could make a concerted effort going forward for a less hostile environment.

I was reminded though, that I am not always dealing with linear thinking, rational people.

So with that said, if you get off on the hostility and hate keep at it. If you enjoy reading it, keep "liking" those posts and everything will stay the same.

You might lose some people who would benefit from participating, and on the otherhand you might miss out on some good information they have to share.

But so it goes.

Peace.

ummm..

That's why culturally Deaf people are blunt. That's the cultural difference between Deaf and hearing people.

It is related to how we grew up percieving our world...through sight.

 

[Berry]

NOBODY is saying any different. At least, I'm not. What I AM saying is that people can do so RESPECTFULLY.

Unfortunately this statement brings back some very bad memories for me.

I was raised in multi ethnic, "mixed" neighborhoods.

Whites would come in acting and talking like emotionless robots telling us how things "Should be."

Every time a black person would bounce their head, wave their arm, or raised their voice one octave the whites would start on this binge of, "That is why we can't help you people. You just aren't civilized and respectful."

Sorry but being a civilized hearing white robot is NOT my fantasy of choice.

 

[shel90]

Unfortunately this statement brings back some very bad memories for me.

I was raised in multi ethnic, "mixed" neighborhoods.

Whites would come in acting and talking like emotionless robots telling us how things "Should be."

Every time a black person would bounce their head, wave their arm, or raised their voice one octave the whites would start on this binge of, "That is why we can't help you people. You just aren't civilized and respectful."

Sorry but being a civilized hearing white robot is NOT my fantasy of choice.

Same here...being civilized doesnt get you anywhere. Gotta be very very VOCIAL!

That's why leaders like MLK had haters but they did change a lot, didn't they?

 

[Beowulf]

Linear thinking? Too rational to use that much.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

mi casa no es tu casa......

Doesn't matter who's house you're in, you still need to act like an adult.

In society, we have laws that we must follow. If we don't, there would be anarchy.

We are close to it here on the forum and have been for years. This, btw, was long before CSign, Grendel, FJ, and people before them came on the forum.

I've seen flame wars started and provoked for sheer sport. I've seen a flame war start simply because Person A doesn't like Person B, and, they follow person B from thread to thread.

I have to wonder if that isn't the case. After all, you all wouldn't act like you do out in the real world. You wouldn't walk up to someone and be disrespectful and such. It simply isn't allowed. But, yet, many do it here on the forum.

I find that very interesting.

 

[CSign]

right. and there's more left for you to concede. it's part of process.

There is nothing left to concede. I had no problems conceding the point about SEE in and of itself not being a language, that doesn't bother me.

I've also not said anything negative, or spread any "misinformation" about ASL, Deaf Culture etc.

In posts regarding the topic I've always been positive, and clear that I support and value the use of ASL.

 

[CSign]

SEE is a language? We say it is not and you say it is.

That is one example. We will defend ASL and do not accept hearing people screwing it up to fit their needs.

I think I've cleared up the whole "SEE is a language thing". I'd like to get this all cleared up as much as possible. Were there any other examples?

Or do some of you just despise me because we used SEE at first? I think that's kind of what it boils down to. A handful of you didn't like the fact that I chose to use SEE in the beginning, and really from that moment on that select group detested everything I have to say.

Even when I'm providing factual, and productive information.

It really is kind of silly, isn't it?

Just some food for thought.

 

[CSign]

NOBODY is saying any different. At least, I'm not. What I AM saying is that people can do so RESPECTFULLY.

Amen.

 

[Jiro]

There is nothing left to concede. I had no problems conceding the point about SEE in and of itself not being a language, that doesn't bother me.

I've also not said anything negative, or spread any "misinformation" about ASL, Deaf Culture etc.

In posts regarding the topic I've always been positive, and clear that I support and value the use of ASL.

hard for us to follow that comment when you don't use ASL with your son though...

 

[CSign]

hard for us to follow that comment when you don't use ASL with your son though...

Well I'm sorry if that's hard for some to follow. It is possible to value English and ASL equally.

 

[posts from hell]

Well I'm sorry if that's hard for some to follow. It is possible to value English and ASL equally.

Just shows you're a hypocrite.

 

[posts from hell]

Doesn't matter who's house you're in, you still need to act like an adult.

In society, we have laws that we must follow. If we don't, there would be anarchy.

We are close to it here on the forum and have been for years. This, btw, was long before CSign, Grendel, FJ, and people before them came on the forum.

I've seen flame wars started and provoked for sheer sport. I've seen a flame war start simply because Person A doesn't like Person B, and, they follow person B from thread to thread.

I have to wonder if that isn't the case. After all, you all wouldn't act like you do out in the real world. You wouldn't walk up to someone and be disrespectful and such. It simply isn't allowed. But, yet, many do it here on the forum.

I find that very interesting.

Again, you missed the very point behind my statement. I meant it to be ambiguous for a reason though.

And don't assume that I wouldn't be disrespectful in person. I've done it in the past and won't hesitate to do it again.