Were you lied by schools and/or parents that you were "hearing?"

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jillio said:
You would fit into this category because you were deaf all through school and prelingually so.

What she is asking for is not so much a lie as in actually being told an untrue statement, but of being given that impression by teachers and parents and other adults in your life by things that were said and done.
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Okay I get it. My parents never really lied to me, they fought for me and demanded to have deaf teacher and put sign language in the program and got rid of oralism program. My parents were victim ones, they were lied by John Tracy Clinic about me and they were told to do this and that which damaged me somewhat. I knew who I was and refused to learn to read lips and refused to learn to talk. Till I got what I wanted, sign language and like who I was back then. Only I thing I felt victim by one oral teacher and John Tracy Clinic for trying to make me "normal" and denied me my right as a deaf child. I am sure I am still have this emotion problems because of them. Before my mother's passed away and she asked me to forgive her. I told for what, she did everything for me and other deaf people where so many parents were not able to do back then. I will never forgive Spencer Tracy for taking my life away from me for being who I am. No wonder I still do have a bitter toward him.
 
52, grew up in Michigan, now living in AZ. I attended an oral school for the Deaf in the city. I think the school lied to my family as my sister told me that the school expected my family not to sign. I picked up ASL from other deaf kids on the school bus as it is the only place where I can signed openly.

I don't know why I got this idea that if I learn to speak, I would be treated as equal when I have a job. I don't really remember somebody telling me that. Well, I found out the hard way that it is not true. Yes, speaking does smooth things faster but I felt they don't really see me as an equal.

Just after I left that school to attended a high school in Ohio that allowed (and still does) ASL, a new principal at the elementary school decided to allowed sign language. A former classmate told me that some of the teachers who are pro-oral, immediately quitted.
 
jazzy said:
Okay I get it. My parents never really lied to me, they fought for me and demanded to have deaf teacher and put sign language in the program and got rid of oralism program. My parents were victim ones, they were lied by John Tracy Clinic about me and they were told to do this and that which damaged me somewhat. I knew who I was and refused to learn to read lips and refused to learn to talk. Till I got what I wanted, sign language and like who I was back then. Only I thing I felt victim by one oral teacher and John Tracy Clinic for trying to make me "normal" and denied me my right as a deaf child. I am sure I am still have this emotion problems because of them. Before my mother's passed away and she asked me to forgive her. I told for what, she did everything for me and other deaf people where so many parents were not able to do back then. I will never forgive Spencer Tracy for taking my life away from me for being who I am. No wonder I still do have a bitter toward him.
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There have been many, many parents who were the victims of The JT Clinic propoganda, and then, indirectly, their children were victimized, too. And it continues even today.
 
Buffalo said:
52, grew up in Michigan, now living in AZ. I attended an oral school for the Deaf in the city. I think the school lied to my family as my sister told me that the school expected my family not to sign. I picked up ASL from other deaf kids on the school bus as it is the only place where I can signed openly.

I don't know why I got this idea that if I learn to speak, I would be treated as equal when I have a job. I don't really remember somebody telling me that. Well, I found out the hard way that it is not true. Yes, speaking does smooth things faster but I felt they don't really see me as an equal.

Just after I left that school to attended a high school in Ohio that allowed (and still does) ASL, a new principal at the elementary school decided to allowed sign language. A former classmate told me that some of the teachers who are pro-oral, immediately quitted.
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Yes, you received that indirect message by what people around you did and did not do. That is why parents and educators need to examine their own audist beliefs and how they play out in their actions, no matter that they protest, "I am not audist!" Children get these messages more from behaviors than from actual words.

It is like I tell parents, if you sign only when you are communicating directly with your child, and not in his/her presence whether you are talking to him/her or not, you are giving that child the message that there is something different about them. The child then interprets "different" to be "less than" or "inferior".
 
Buffalo said:
52, grew up in Michigan, now living in AZ. I attended an oral school for the Deaf in the city. I think the school lied to my family as my sister told me that the school expected my family not to sign. I picked up ASL from other deaf kids on the school bus as it is the only place where I can signed openly.

I don't know why I got this idea that if I learn to speak, I would be treated as equal when I have a job. I don't really remember somebody telling me that. Well, I found out the hard way that it is not true. Yes, speaking does smooth things faster but I felt they don't really see me as an equal.

Just after I left that school to attended a high school in Ohio that allowed (and still does) ASL, a new principal at the elementary school decided to allowed sign language. A former classmate told me that some of the teachers who are pro-oral, immediately quitted.
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I had the idea that if i could read and write and speak better than most deaf I would be treated as equal. Uh-huh, yeah right.
 
Keep going you guys! This is just the stuff the OP was looking for!
 
jillio said:
There have been many, many parents who were the victims of The JT Clinic propoganda, and then, indirectly, their children were victimized, too. And it continues even today.
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Remember one mother who came here few years ago back then and she was a teacher there at JT. Her kids were lied by her and JT by telling them they have hearing voice instead of deaf voices. Sad still to this day. Funny thing when my mother met this deaf man John Tracy. She was shocked by the way he talked. It was bad. thanks for point this out and help me to understand this one out.
 
jazzy said:
Remember one mother who came here few years ago back then and she was a teacher there at JT. Her kids were lied by her and JT by telling them they have hearing voice instead of deaf voices. Sad still to this day. Funny thing when my mother met this deaf man John Tracy. She was shocked by the way he talked. It was bad. thanks for point this out and help me to understand this one out.
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I remember exactly who you are talking about. jackiesolanzaro or something close to that. And yes, she had some very disturbing philosophies regarding deafness and deaf education.

You are very welcome!:wave:
 
jillio said:
I remember exactly who you are talking about. jackiesolanzaro or something close to that. And yes, she had some very disturbing philosophies regarding deafness and deaf education.

You are very welcome!:wave:
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I remember her well. In some ways, she reminds me of my parents.
 
Count me out.

41, Long Island,

my parents are aware of going on and made sure that i had a happy childhood as an ASL user. So i did.
 
deafskeptic said:
I had the idea that if i could read and write and speak better than most deaf I would be treated as equal. Uh-huh, yeah right.
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In our dreams. :laugh2:

Though, to be fair, I am well respected at work. For the most part, my colleagues adjust to *my* communication needs but that was a long, long time coming.
 
jillio said:
What words would you use in a statistical application as a replacement for average and norm?

<snip>
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Interesting question! I've never thought about it before.

Well in an imaginary world where all the professional users of statistics found out about my opinion and agreed with me immediately, :D the simplest change would probably be to make them hyphenated words:

  • statistical-average
  • statistical-normal
  • statistical-norm

However, its unlikely that most people would continue to use a long hyphenated word. They might start off with those words, but they would probably start dropping the “statistic” part of the hyphenated words further on in their papers, lectures or conversations. So I would also suggest shorten versions of the hyphenated words that don’t currently exist in the English dictionary:

  • staverage
  • stormal

Professional users of statistics might agree to this change because there would be advantages including:

* More precise meaning
I’ve been taught that one of the reasons that professional jargon is common is because it allows the people communicating to be sure that everyone in the conversation is interpreting it the same way. They may not agree with each other, but at least they can agree on what the conversation was about.

* Help make conversations and writings less emotionally charged.
Since, statistics is used in many studies including studies about people, it would probably help everyone stay on topic if less emotionally charged words were used. Average and normal do have different meanings in everyday language and if used in a conversation about people, those different meanings probably can’t help but bleed over to the conversation even if most of the people involved know that the statistical meanings are the ones that are suppose to be used at the time.

FWIW, although I accept and use the mathematical meaning of those words, it still grates on me. I don’t like it but I deal with it. When I talk about those topics I do try to use other words like ‘mean‘, ‘rare’ and ‘more common‘.

It’s usually not a great solution -- most people don’t remember that mean can be a synonym for average and not just a way to describe someone‘s behavior. People are also not used to using the words ‘rare’ and ‘more common’ when discussing statistics and the unusual use of those words can distract from the conversation.

But I believe that certain topics carry enough unwarranted baggage as it is, including the topics of hearing loss and deafness*, so I sometimes use those words anyway. But I would prefer to use statistical-average, statistical-normal, statistical-norm, staverage, and stormal.

And you know what? I just realized that I can start using the words statistical average and statistical normal. (unhyphenated). Next time I have a conversation involving statistics I think I will. Everyone would understand what I mean and the worst that could be said is that some people will think I sound wordy. :lol:



*Note: I have seen people who are not familiar with statistics, hearing loss and deafness look embarrassed when the statistical meanings of the words 'normal' and 'average' are used in conversation.
 
Jazzberry said:
Interesting question! I've never thought about it before.

Well in an imaginary world where all the professional users of statistics found out about my opinion and agreed with me immediately, :D the simplest change would probably be to make them hyphenated words:

  • statistical-average
  • statistical-normal
  • statistical-norm

However, its unlikely that most people would continue to use a long hyphenated word. They might start off with those words, but they would probably start dropping the “statistic” part of the hyphenated words further on in their papers, lectures or conversations. So I would also suggest shorten versions of the hyphenated words that don’t currently exist in the English dictionary:

  • staverage
  • stormal

Professional users of statistics might agree to this change because there would be advantages including:

More precise meaning
I’ve been taught that one of the reasons that professional jargon is common is because it allows people to communicate and to be sure that everyone in the conversation is interpreting it the same way. They may not agree with each other, but at least they can agree on what the conversation was about.

Help make conversations and writings less emotionally charged.
Statistics is used in many studies including studies about people. It would probably help everyone stay on topic if less emotionally charged words were used. Average and normal do have different meanings in everyday language and if used in a conversation about people, those different meanings probably can’t help but bleed over to the conversation even if most of the people involved know that the statistical meanings are the ones that are suppose to be used at the time.

FWIW, although I accept and use the mathematical meaning of those words, it still grates on me. I don’t like it but I deal with it. When I talk about those topics I do try to use other words like ‘mean‘, ‘rare’ and ‘more common‘.

It’s usually not a great solution -- most people don’t remember that mean can be a synonym for average and not just a way to describe someone‘s behavior. People are also not used to using the words ‘rare’ and ‘more common’ when discussing statistics and the unusual use of those words can distract from the conversation.

But I believe that certain topics carry enough unwarranted baggage as it is, including the topics of hearing loss and deafness*, so I sometimes use those words anyway. But I would prefer to use statistical-average, statistical-normal, statistical-norm, staverage, and stormal.

And you know what? I could start using statistical average and statistical normal right away (unhyphenated). Next time I have a conversation involving statistics I think I will. Everyone would understand what I mean and the worst that could be said is that some people will think I sound wordy. :lol:



*Note: I have seen people who are not familiar with statistics, hearing loss and deafness look embarrassed when the statistical meanings of the words 'normal' and 'average' are used in conversation.
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I am a user of statistics, and I always thought the "statistical" part of your hyphenated word was implied by the context.:P I think some people just don't bother to take context into consideration when deciding on the definition of a word.:P
 
Buffalo said:
52, grew up in Michigan, now living in AZ. I attended an oral school for the Deaf in the city. I think the school lied to my family as my sister told me that the school expected my family not to sign. I picked up ASL from other deaf kids on the school bus as it is the only place where I can signed openly.

I don't know why I got this idea that if I learn to speak, I would be treated as equal when I have a job. I don't really remember somebody telling me that. Well, I found out the hard way that it is not true. Yes, speaking does smooth things faster but I felt they don't really see me as an equal.

Just after I left that school to attended a high school in Ohio that allowed (and still does) ASL, a new principal at the elementary school decided to allowed sign language. A former classmate told me that some of the teachers who are pro-oral, immediately quitted.
Click to expand...

Better that a Deaf school not have audist teachers.

My experience was different. We signed when I was little and I don't really know why my mother stopped allowing it and wanted me to be hearie. Nobody at the school provided any translators but I was seated at the front. I guess they figured if I sat closer I might hear better. :laugh2: Uhm, no, but my lip reading was perfected so it wasn't all bad.

The problem with the mainstream approach is that I always felt so different but couldn't articulate why or what exactly it was that made me feel different. Watching other kids play and verbally communicate so easily with each other during recess is a very lonely existence for a deaf child. Longing to be able to communicate with my friends the way they were. In their own language. Why couldn't I have mine?
 
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