Welfare recipients live in mansion

Source was Reba's posted article: http://www.alldeaf.com/current-events/97093-welfare-recipients-live-mansion.html#post1987586

I feel you are trying to paint me as anti-welfare. I am anti-this-case. Big difference. How did they do this? It appears they collected lots of government benefits. The numbers are out there. Do you think they are entitled to this? If so, sign me up! I will grab some of this!

How can you be anti-this case when you don't even know that fraud was committed in this case? These people certainly don't appear to be trying to get away with a danged thing. There is no evidence what so ever of fraud being committed. Just a bunch of people jumping to conclusions.
 
How do you know how much training the chiropractor has? I know of many cases in my area where drugs are traded for food stamps. The system IS abused, broken and needs to be fixed. Mandatory drug and alcohol testing for all recipients. Require that those capable work for their wages.

Investigate the fraud so the ones who deserve it get it!

Well, duh. It isn't hard to determine exactly how much education and training it takes to become a licensed chiropractor.:laugh2:

If you know of those cases why aren't you, as an LEO, doing something about it? Most states require that anyone receiving TANIF work and receive on the job training and also that they be off of assistance in 5 years time.

Calling for mandatory testing just shows that you are of the opinion that all welfare recipients are using drugs. Nice opinion you have of the needy, there, officer.:roll:

Who says the fraud isn't being investigated. Obviously, however, you see it being committed daily in those that trade food stamps for drugs. Not very ethical of you to whine about fraud not being prosecuted when you turn a blind eye to it all the time.
 
Roses can put you in a world of hurt, too.

No doubt! I plan to hire the the TEXAS HAMMER to sue R A Gabriele for sending me the flowers.. That is at least another month off....oh wait, I don't work. Damnit! I need a job so I can sue people to get out of work
 
How can you be anti-this case when you don't even know that fraud was committed in this case? These people certainly don't appear to be trying to get away with a danged thing. There is no evidence what so ever of fraud being committed. Just a bunch of people jumping to conclusions.

So the government sues them for fun? MMM-kay.

Meanwhile, Cain drops out of the Presidential race due to allegations of sexual misconduct, which were never proven, but his reputation was destroyed.

You do not see the parallel here? Everyone was convicting Cain based on settlements and accusations, but whoa to anyone that finds this case just a tiny bit stinky. Bias much?
 
exactly.

The thought of whole government having a great difficulty in investigating and prosecuting some commoners defrauding our welfare system is.... just plain dang comical.

We hear insurance/welfare frauds all the time. Too easy to investigate and prosecute. and corporate fraud? nope. maybe couple times a year since most cases end in settlements and are quickly swept away under carpet.

They can investigate all they want. One little word makes a successful prosecution difficult. This is why, on occasion they go civil first. But believe as you wish
 
So the government sues them for fun? MMM-kay.

Meanwhile, Cain drops out of the Presidential race due to allegations of sexual misconduct, which were never proven, but his reputation was destroyed.

You do not see the parallel here? Everyone was convicting Cain based on settlements and accusations, but whoa to anyone that finds this case just a tiny bit stinky. Bias much?

The government has not sued this couple. No charges were filed.

There was a lot more evidence of Cain's guilt than there is that this couple committed fraud. Especially if all you are going on is what was printed in the article.
 
Yes, it happens every day. I refuse to believe it does not exist.

No one said it did not exist. We are saying it is not as prevalent as you are portraying it here.

Disability fraud is one of the easiest forms of fraud to detect. And one of the easiest to prosecute. Diability even has their own medical staff to examine an applicant before granting disability. If fraud is taking place at the rate you are suggesting, then maybe they need to hire some new doctors who can diagnose when a disability if present.
 
How about chiropractors that can no longer practice and are in temproary need? Any one in any profession can encounter life circumstances that cause them to be in need of assistance.

I personally know a Ph.D. college professor who had to leave her job and eventually go on public assistance to support herself and her children because she was escaping an abusive relationship.

In the book Dead by Sunset, one of the people in a relationship was a lawyer and the other one was a doctor.

I have no doubt that given the facts in this case either or both of them would have had to go on public assistance under the right conditions. The lawyer lost her life and the doctor had to pay off a lot of the debt that Brad Cunningham incurred.
 
They can investigate all they want. One little word makes a successful prosecution difficult. This is why, on occasion they go civil first. But believe as you wish

The government does not file civil suits.
 
IF this couple has committed fraud, then they should be prosecuted for such. However, it is a bit premature to pronounce them guilty when charges have not even been filed. And it is certainly not justification for the judgemental attitudes being exhibited against those who receive assistance.
 
IF this couple has committed fraud, then they should be prosecuted for such. However, it is a bit premature to pronounce them guilty when charges have not even been filed. And it is certainly not justification for the judgemental attitudes being exhibited against those who receive assistance.

Not being judgmental of welfare recipients, just these particular ones. If guilty. I can decide to make them a figurehead of what is wrong with our world, i.e., greed and sloth. Whether or not there is a crime committed, I can decide that I think they did something wrong, same as all the Liberals bashing Cain, same as all the Conservatives bashing Clinton. I can make my own mind up. Difference is, I can change my mind and admit I was wrong. Not everyone is the same as I am, and that is their prerogative.

There is nothing wrong with seeking or receiving assistance. There is much wrong with fraud, embezzlement, and theft.
 
Feds: Couple Claimed Welfare, Lived in $1.2M Home
By GENE JOHNSON
SEATTLE
go.com
A Seattle chiropractor and his wife live in a $1.2 million waterfront home and have spent the past eight years flying to Moscow, Paris, Israel, Turkey, Mexico and the Dominican Republic.

All the while, federal authorities say, the couple was collecting more than $100,000 in welfare.

Now, the U.S. attorney's office is suing David Silverstein and Lyudmila Shimonova, accusing them of filing false claims and demanding that the couple pay back more than $135,000 in federal housing assistance since 2003. Prosecutors are also seeking tens of thousands of dollars in fines.

In gaining Section 8 housing assistance, Shimonova represented that she lived alone with her two children and that her household assets were less than $5,000. Silverstein received the monthly benefits of $1,272 as Shimonova's purported landlord, the government said.

Shimonova also received benefits under the federal Temporary Assistance for Needy Families program, as well as Social Security cash reserved for people who can't work due to age or disability and whose assets fall below a certain threshold — $3,000 for a married couple or $2,000 for a single person, the complaint said.

"Defendants have separately and, it appears, in conjunction with one another made false representations to various state and federal agencies in order to obtain federally funded benefits," assistant U.S. attorneys Harold Malkin and Kayla Stahman wrote.

Meanwhile, they were traveling the world, according to Department of Homeland Security records.

Michael Radyshewsky, a federal welfare fraud investigator, wrote in an application to search the couple's home that they took weeklong trips to Moscow in 2003, Dominican Republic in 2005, and Mexico and France in 2009. In 2007, they went for 12 days to Israel, and this past June they took a two-week trip to Turkey.

Silverstein said Tuesday his lawyer asked him not to comment. The home did not appear to have a listed phone number, and no contact information for Shimonova could immediately be found.

The investigation included surveillance of the three-bedroom, 2,300-square-foot home on Lake Washington, during which agents observed his black Jaguar parked there frequently.

Though Shimonova had claimed she was single and lived there alone, Silverstein listed it as his residence on his driver's license and passport application, the prosecutors said.

But in documents filed so that he could receive the housing assistance, he listed his office as his residence to conceal that he was living with Shimonova — not her landlord, they said.

Furthermore, it appeared clear that the pair was actually married. Silverstein wrote on the website of his chiropractic business: "On a personal note, I am happily married with two children, whose careers are in medicine and Middle Eastern studies. As a family, we all enjoy snow-shoeing, mountain climbing and ocean sports."

A report of the Jewish Federation of Greater Seattle for the 2010 fiscal year listed "Mila and Dr. David Silverstein" as donors.

In addition to failing to disclose the marriage or living situation, Shimonova also failed to disclose bank accounts in her name containing tens of thousands of dollars, prosecutors said.

The lawsuit seeks to have the couple pay $11,000 in fines for each false claim the couple made. The U.S. attorney's office declined to comment on whether criminal charges are forthcoming.
Feds: Couple Claimed Welfare, Lived in $1.2M Home - ABC News
 
Hmmm, maybe I should just get on disability because my standard of living would be much higher than it is now and I can finish my bachelor degree!

There are those who really need the assistance and those who fraud the system.

As for this couple, I don't have all the details do I cant say until charges have been filed. One question- does the couple actually own the home or are they renting it?

The loophole might have been that they owned the home and falsely stated they rented the home. And the marriage thing seems fishy. We're they legally married or was it a common law marriage?
 
The government does not file civil suits.

You sure about that?

The government's civil suit was provoked by "years of reckless lending practices," Preet Bharara, the U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York, said in a statement.

Feds take billion-dollar whack at Deutsche Bank - Street Sweep: Fortune's Wall Street Blog Term Sheet

US files civil suit against nine companies in Gulf spill disaster - NYPOST.com
U.S. files civil suit against defense contractor KBR

U.S. files civil suit against defense contractor KBR

This section discusses the procedures to follow in a civil fraud case.

A civil fraud penalty case may be developed based on facts and circumstances of a civil examination or result from a criminal investigation (CI) initiated case.

Civil fraud penalties will be asserted when there is clear and convincing evidence to prove that some part of the underpayment of tax was due to fraud. Such evidence must show the taxpayer’s intent to evade the assessment of tax which the taxpayer believed to be owing. Intent is distinguished from inadvertence, reliance on incorrect technical advice, honest difference of opinion, negligence or carelessness. In the case of a joint return, intent must be established for each spouse separately as required by IRC § 6663(c) . The fraud of one spouse cannot be used to impute fraud by the other spouse. Thus, the civil fraud penalty may be asserted on one spouse only.

Specific guidance on fraud indicators and the development of fraud may be found in IRM 25.1.1 and 25.1.2.

IRM 20.1 provides specific procedures for assertion of the civil fraud penalty.

Form 6809, Civil Fraud Penalty Monitoring Formis no longer used to monitor penalties. The form has been removed from the Forms Repository.


Internal Revenue Manual - 25.1.6 Civil Fraud

You should write Uncle Sam and tell him he can't do that....I don't think he realizes it.
 
Well, duh. It isn't hard to determine exactly how much education and training it takes to become a licensed chiropractor.:laugh2:

If you know of those cases why aren't you, as an LEO, doing something about it? Most states require that anyone receiving TANIF work and receive on the job training and also that they be off of assistance in 5 years time.

Calling for mandatory testing just shows that you are of the opinion that all welfare recipients are using drugs. Nice opinion you have of the needy, there, officer.:roll:

Who says the fraud isn't being investigated. Obviously, however, you see it being committed daily in those that trade food stamps for drugs. Not very ethical of you to whine about fraud not being prosecuted when you turn a blind eye to it all the time.

So you're telling me that you know how many degrees he has in what and how much continuing education he has and all that? Uhm yeah! OK!

First let me say that my jurisdiction is the airport and surrounding property. Not much welfare and food stamp fraud here!

Second unless I personally see a felony being committed outside of my jurisdiction then I cannot act due to law. But being an LEO you should know right?

I never said that I saw it being committed daily so please don't put words in my mouth or alter my statements. I never turn a blind eye to crime in my jurisdiction or felonies being committed in my presence. I also never said that all or most welfare recipients take or use drugs, that would be your statement not mine. I just know like most other sensible people that the system is being abused. What is fair for one is fair for all!
 
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