Under the Word of God

[Nusentinsaino]

Studying the bible does not mean it is historically acurate, and if it is acurate. Give me the proof.

You guys are egotisical bastards.

 

[Crazymanw00t]

Studying the bible does not mean it is historically acurate, and if it is acurate. Give me the proof.

You guys are egotisical bastards.

How can you call us as ego if you have not read the Bible?

You need to look yourself, too. You are ego-ing yourself that Bush is a lousy President. In reality your vain with word that we are ego is worthless and pointless. Actually it is a wrong word choice and thank you!

 

[The Heretic]

Christian Logic

Most Christians think in circles. Here's an example i see all the time:

Devout Christian: God exists!
The Heretic: You for real? How do you know that?
Devout Christian: Cuz the Bible says so.
The Heretic: Okay... But that only shifts the goalposts. How do you know the Bible is true?
Devout Christian: Cuz the Bible was written/inspired by God, and God cannot lie!
The Heretic: Um, all you are saying is the Bible is true cuz God exists, and God exists cuz the Bible says so. :roll:

 

[Crazymanw00t]

Most Christians think in circles. Here's an example i see all the time:

Devout Christian: God exists!
The Heretic: You for real? How do you know that?
Devout Christian: Cuz the Bible says so.
The Heretic: Okay... But that only shifts the goalposts. How do you know the Bible is true?
Devout Christian: Cuz the Bible was written/inspired by God, and God cannot lie!
The Heretic: Um, all you are saying is the Bible is true cuz God exists, and God exists cuz the Bible says so. :roll:

Did you read read the Bible? Whole thing throughly?

 

[The Heretic]

Do you understand what circular logic is, Crazyman? My previous post is a perfect example.

Did you read read the Bible? Whole thing throughly?

Of course. Many times, when i was a wee lad.

I enjoyed most of it, to say the least! Very much to the point of going to Bible study nights, but my enthusiasm got the best of me. I ended up getting kicked out.

Now my turn. What inspired you to ask this? I don't comment on things i don't know.

 

[Askjo]

Most Christians think in circles. Here's an example i see all the time:

Devout Christian: God exists!
The Heretic: You for real? How do you know that?
Devout Christian: Cuz the Bible says so.
The Heretic: Okay... But that only shifts the goalposts. How do you know the Bible is true?
Devout Christian: Cuz the Bible was written/inspired by God, and God cannot lie!
The Heretic: Um, all you are saying is the Bible is true cuz God exists, and God exists cuz the Bible says so. :roll:

Devout Christian: You exist because the Bible said so.

John 1:3 KJV

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made

The Bible teaches:

1. We exist because Jesus Christ created us.

2. We would not exist if Jesus Christ did not create us.

 

[Askjo]

Studying the bible does not mean it is historically acurate, and if it is acurate. Give me the proof.

You guys are egotisical bastards.

I posted my answer to you, but YOU ignore this fact. Why?

Remember that ALL of us including you are under the Word of God because God created us (John 1:3 KJV).

 

[The Heretic]

Old reliable!

Thank you for missing my point. My post only shows how Christians think - if god exists, then the bible is true. But then again, they refer to the bible for proof of God's existence. Now, on to your post...

Devout Christian: You exist because the Bible said so. John 1:3 KJV
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made
The Bible teaches:
1. We exist because Jesus Christ created us.
2. We would not exist if Jesus Christ did not create us.

A statement that claims something created something else does not mean it is true. If i show you a statement that says the same thing, but instead of Jesus Christ, it has a different creator, are they also automatically true?

Example: Allah is the name of the creator in arabic which means "the one who has the godhood which is the power to create all entities." If we followed your logic of self-evident claims, then by george, this must be true too!
Example II: Hinduism claims that Brahma is the foundation of all being (existence) and the universe originated from God. Another truth!
Example III: Greek philosophy claims the demiurge created everything. What? a 4th creator? How to tell them all apart? I need a manual.

For a couple of chuckles, create your creator by clicking on this Link.

 

[Askjo]

Thank you for missing my point. My post only shows how Christians think - if god exists, then the bible is true. But then again, they refer to the bible for proof of God's existence. Now, on to your post...

A statement that claims something created something else does not mean it is true. If i show you a statement that says the same thing, but instead of Jesus Christ, it has a different creator, are they also automatically true?

Example: Allah is the name of the creator in arabic which means "the one who has the godhood which is the power to create all entities." If we followed your logic of self-evident claims, then by george, this must be true too!
Example II: Hinduism claims that Brahma is the foundation of all being (existence) and the universe originated from God. Another truth!
Example III: Greek philosophy claims the demiurge created everything. What? a 4th creator? How to tell them all apart? I need a manual.

Which one is the TRUE God? Please name.

 

[The Heretic]

Tsk! Still missing the point.

Which one is the TRUE God? Please name.

Um, that's my question. How do you distinguish between these statements, without begging the question? How do you know which creator is the true creator, without assuming one to be true first? The Koran claims Allah created everything. Is it true? Muslims think the Koran is the word of Allah. Therefore, it must be true. Right? Why or why not?

If you don't understand what "begging the question" means, it's really simple.

If you believe something is true, and then you try to prove it by assuming it to be true, you are only thinking in circles.

If you still don't understand me, here is another example:

Abortion is the unjustified killing of a human being. So is murder.
Murder is illegal.
Therefore, abortion should be illegal.

The first sentence repeates the final sentence. Nothing is proven, because the claim that abortion is unjustified killing is the same as defining abortion as an illegal action. The conclusion is already stated in the premise. If you assume abortion is murder, then it is obvious that abortion is illegal, because murder is illegal.

No duh!

 

[Crazymanw00t]

Do you understand what circular logic is, Crazyman? My previous post is a perfect example.

I enjoyed most of it, to say the least! Very much to the point of going to Bible study nights, but my enthusiasm got the best of me. I ended up getting kicked out.

Yes very clear and I agree with you.

It is very common with Christian around the world. Many of them tend to spoke out from someone that they heard and not from what they read or study from the Bible. They should study and understand the Bible from Old Testament to New Testament.

Some churches teach very basic with the Bible for many years. Therefore, the Christian people have not expanded their knowledge with the Bible, and they will say same thing what you gave the example because they are limited with what they learned from the church.

If the person knows, the Bible and that person will delivery many various methods to share with the information like life application, examples, cause-effect, problem-solution, etc.

Conclusion: Whole information about the Jesus Christ’s life, Salvation, Justification, etc comes from the Bible. It will be best if everyone can read the Greek Bible in the New Testament and Hebrew in Old Testament and they will support their arguments. Many people tend to ignore the Old Testament and focus heavily on the New Testament. It is right and wrong. Every of us should balance with Old and New Testaments because the Old Testaments are like an example from the New Testaments. If we understand the Old Testament first and then we will be fully understand with the New Testaments because we understood the Old Testament’s illusions or stories. Therefore, we can explain the deep logic from the Bible to your example with circle.

Does it make sense?

Now my turn. What inspired you to ask this? I don't comment on things i don't know.

Do you mean with the reading bible question?
I notice that many people tend to argue without reading the Bible. They always argue because they agree with someone else’s comments without reading or re-check his sources. If someone already read, the Bible and then I can understand where that person stands. It is either to believe the Bible (agree) or don’t believe the Bible (disagree).

 

[The Heretic]

Good post, Crazy!

Yes very clear and I agree with you. It is very common with Christian around the world. Many of them tend to spoke out from someone that they heard and not from what they read or study from the Bible. They should study and understand the Bible from Old Testament to New Testament.

I agree completely. The reason i lost my faith in christianity was because i read the bible closely, carefully and with more tools than just grammar. But I don't think everyone will interpret the bible the same way, because not everyone is the same (different psychology, different cultures, different times, different needs). But i am a big supporter for knowledge - whether religious or scientific or philosophical.

Some churches teach very basic with the Bible for many years. Therefore, the Christian people have not expanded their knowledge with the Bible, and they will say same thing what you gave the example because they are limited with what they learned from the church.

When i hear circular thinking, (not only christians, but anyone else) I think that person has no way of thinking critically, or using logic independent of his beliefs. That is when i explain them why their thinking is not very good or strong. Of course my efforts at explaining will go to waste, most of the time.

If the person knows, the Bible and that person will delivery many various methods to share with the information like life application, examples, cause-effect, problem-solution, etc.

Yes, certainly. The bible is a good tool, but sometimes too good. It can be used to legitimize somebody's prejudices.

Conclusion: Whole information about the Jesus Christ’s life, Salvation, Justification, etc comes from the Bible. It will be best if everyone can read the Greek Bible in the New Testament and Hebrew in Old Testament and they will support their arguments.

Ideally, you are right. But realistically, not everyone has the time to study Ancient Hebrew and Aramaic Greek in order to read the bible. So, we must do the best we can, and that means read the bible in our native languages. Do you remember what happened when the Roman Catholic Churches kept the bible in Latin when nobody could speak or read latin?

Many people tend to ignore the Old Testament and focus heavily on the New Testament. It is right and wrong. Every of us should balance with Old and New Testaments because the Old Testaments are like an example from the New Testaments. If we understand the Old Testament first and then we will be fully understand with the New Testaments because we understood the Old Testament’s illusions or stories. Therefore, we can explain the deep logic from the Bible to your example with circle.Does it make sense?

Absolutely. The christian needs the Old Testament in order to support the New Testament. But if you look at the Jewish bible (pentateuch or Torah) and compare them with the Old Testament of the Christian bible (any version) you will notice the verses are not identical.

Do you mean with the reading bible question? I notice that many people tend to argue without reading the Bible. They always argue because they agree with someone else’s comments without reading or re-check his sources. If someone already read, the Bible and then I can understand where that person stands. It is either to believe the Bible (agree) or don’t believe the Bible (disagree).

I did read the bible. I am not an ignorant unbeliever.

 

[Nusentinsaino]

Missing my point here, you christans are egotisical because you cliam that all of the other religion are "false" and God is the only true religion. That is egotisical. I dont see how God can be real. Believe me, I have tried believing in god, i tried and tried but failed, because every year you start to see things and realize things... War, poverty, scum, crimes, murder, destruction, filth, and tyranny. I dont see how God can create a world like this, if he loves us, made us in his own image... he wouldnt make the humans capbable to kill and destroy the works of God. Perhaps the world is a huge part of Hell, perhaps not. I have tried praying a couple of times years ago, and why hasnt God answered the prayers? Perhaps he doesnt exist, or maybe a better answer: He doesnt give a shit. I dont know what to believe... but i still consider myself as an atheist.

You have asked me many times if i have read the bible, Honestly... only parts of it until i finally figured to myself that its all bullshit.

 

[Crazymanw00t]

Oh yeah all like that War, poverty, scum, crimes, murder, destruction, filth, and tyranny came from out sins. We are responsible for our sins. We are the first people to rebel aganist his work and his plan and therefore all that has to happens. To understand that thing. We cause those events to happens because of our sin. God had do nothing with it but he knew it will happens. That is why he sent his son, Jesus Christ to save us from the God's wrath on our sin aganist him. God never wrath at us for no reason. He is wrath at us because we rebeled aganist his holy for no reason. Therefore his judge is very fair.

I was in same shoe as you were. I was atheist and now I am Christian. I understood all your points. I gave my explaining with those your whys. It is really basic, if you love yourself and then you will understand everything with the world's events.

 

[Askjo]

Missing my point here, you christans are egotisical because you cliam that all of the other religion are "false" and God is the only true religion. That is egotisical.

If many gods are true gods, they make ONE true God jealous.

I dont see how God can be real. Believe me, I have tried believing in god, i tried and tried but failed, because every year you start to see things and realize things...

YOU exist because the Bible said God exists.

John 1:3 (KJV)

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made

This verse easily explains that:

1. We exist because God created us

2. We would not exist if He did not create us.

If the Bible is HERE, there is the true God. On other hand, if the Bible is NOT here, you are an atheist forever.

When you see the Bible that you hold with your hands, you are inexcusable.

Romans 1:20

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

This verse easily explains that we walk on the earth because God created the earth. There is NO excuse.

Romans 1:21

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

This verse explains very obviously that if you do not believe in God, the Creator, you did not thank Him for giving you the life on the earth.

I dont see how God can create a world like this, if he loves us, made us in his own image... he wouldnt make the humans capbable to kill and destroy the works of God.

God did NOT create the sin.

I have tried praying a couple of times years ago, and why hasnt God answered the prayers?

James 4:3

Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

but i still consider myself as an atheist.

Psalm 14:1 (KJV)

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

Are you a fool?

War, poverty, scum, crimes, murder, destruction, filth, and tyranny.

There is the Satan around somewhere to seek and hurt us. Without the Satan, we would have the PEACE.

 

[Crazymanw00t]

Askjo, your comments is sh*t to me. I am sorry and I have to say that. If I were him and I will walk away from you because you are making a stupid logic orders. You can try something different and try apply their lifetime with the Bible. My comments was a good example to use.

 

[Askjo]

Askjo, your comments is sh*t to me. I am sorry and I have to say that. If I were him and I will walk away from you because you are making a stupid logic orders. You can try something different and try apply their lifetime with the Bible. My comments was a good example to use.

Is the Word of God STUPID? Agrue with the Word of God? Go ahead!

 

[Crazymanw00t]

Is the Word of God STUPID? Agrue with the Word of God? Go ahead!

Are you on the crack?

I was talking about your comments toward to the atheist people. You need to adjust your comments for the atheist's level. Your recently comments are good for the people that are "carnal" Christian(I dont believe in carnal and they are dead spirit anway).

 

[Crazymanw00t]

.

 

[Askjo]

From Genesis to Revelation... all the way through ?

I find this bible fascinatin'. It's the BEST book I ever read than other books. And, the bible is very USEFUL book to read for many good reasons. It transforms a person to be a better person through the Word of God Himself. He is the Potter and we are the "clay" He forms. The bible is a miracle ! The word "magic" is NOT a proper word to call the bible. The word "miracle" is a proper suit.

Correct! I agree with you because the Bible is most powerful tool for our life. The Bible is the God-feeding-us. We love to eat God's Words daily because God's Words are very delicious.