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rockdrummer
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What I have learned is that there doesn't appear to be a standard definition and that some schools that claim to be bibi really aren't.
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jillio
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It doesn't. That is the whole point. The written language a child is exposed to in a bi-bi environment is English.
jillio
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But, if you knew what bi-bi was, you would know when you aren't seeing it, as well as when you are. That is why it is important to be informed, and to actually visit any program that would lead to possible placement for your child academically.
jillio
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The paper you posted has some very interesting and useful onformation, but we might want to keep in mind that it was a paper written by an undergrad, and is based on research done prior to 1996. It is just a synthesization of her references. Not criticising, just pointing out the limits.
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rockdrummer
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Would you say parts of that paper are no longer vaild?
jillio
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I don't know that they would no longer be valid. Since the systems described are still the same, I don't see aproblem with validity of the paper. Just need to keep in mind that this really is no more than an undergraduate's interpretation of the research cited. I received a couple of articles today by email that I haven't had time to review, but both are on bi-bi education. I'll post about them as soon as I have had a chance to review them.
For long time, ASL has no written form. Sutton designed the SignWriting but it didn't catch on, yet. SignWriting: Write Sign Languages
Oregon's Deaf and Hard of Hearing Services ASL: A Distinct Cultural Language (this one supports Bi-Bi)
Deaf Literacy / ASL and Reading
Ok, if you just LEARN the basics of signwriting, you'll find reading ASL relatively easy, right? That's BECAUSE you already knew ASL. Signwriting is a phonetic representation of signed languages.
That's the same idea with using cued speech - once a child acquires cued English, he will be able to read English with ease because he ALREADY knew English!
That's the same idea with using cued speech - once a child acquires cued English, he will be able to read English with ease because he ALREADY knew English!
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rockdrummer
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Thanks Buffalo. As soon as I went to that link I remembered that I had started a thread on the topic. Actually Buffalo and Netrox, discussion about writing in sign is important but a bit off topic here. (I know that I asked the question but it was for another reason) We can discuss signwriting here http://www.alldeaf.com/sign-language-oralism/44822-what-about-signwriting.html
Thanks
I'm tired of hearing someone telling me I'm not a teacher nor that I don't have any experience teaching deaf children to have an opinion on deaf education. Many parents aren't teachers and they do share their opinions on the status of their children's development in school.
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Sorry hun..that's the truth..before I became I teacher, I thought I knew a lot but after becoming a teacher, I realized I only knew a very tiny part of the biiiiigggg picture. It is the truth and if u don't like it, it won't stop me from being blunt cuz until someone is in that classroom 8 hours a day 5 days a week for years and years, they only understand a small part of it.
Like I said before, teachers who teach hearing children with special needs r much more knowledgeable than I am in that area and I would never claim to know just as much as they do. Vallee is the expert in that field and she knows much more than I do and I am not afraid to admit it. Jillo is much the expert in the field of pychology..I have some training in it but no experience so I do not measure up to her experiences at all.
So..that's the truth. Many of the things u have posted about the BiBi approach especially about degree of hearing loss were very inaccurate. If u resent that, again..be a teacher ora teacher aide in the field of Deaf ed and then we can debate about it later on. So shoot me.
Oceanbreeze
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good point
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So, you agree that someone who has no experience in teaching nor has no training in the field of education knows a just as much as we do about what it is like to teach different kinds of kids?
U are the one who seem to have the most experience in teaching hearing kids with special needs and I would refer any parents with questions in that field to you instead of me cuz I dont possess the experience you have and I wouldnt want to form inaccurate opinions or statements about your field of work without actual experience in it. I just cant come in here and post opinions about something I possess little knowledge of cuz I would be responsible for spreading misinformation.
Just like parents of chidlren with CIs who get defensive against deaf people who dont have CIs making all kinds of claims about CIs doing damage to their children when they dont have personal experience with the surgery themselves.
I cant also form opinions on rocket science cuz I do not know enough about it. That is my point.
It is a good point. Do I think someone without an educational degree knows as much, no. We have the experience and training they don't. I do believe they should have an input into the educational program set up for their children.
In order for parents to assist in the educational develop of their children, they have to have the resources. Just like correcting "the way I learned it in school" to that worked then, but this might be a better way. As an educator, I do open my "ears" and really listen to parents. That is why schools set up programs to "teach" parents how to assist in the education of their children.
I don't have experience in deaf education as you do. I trust that you will give an accurate picture of the nature of the educational programs in your area. I do trust that others with experience in these types of programs in other areas of the country. It might be that way. I have not found a universal program in every school in every district the same. Most programs are set up to the individual school with the principal incharge. I have learned that the hard way. (Let me just say, my program is so unique that no other school in our district has one like this, it might a good thing) So just because a program said bibi, tc, inclusion, mainstream, and etc. etc. etc, the real program might just be completely different to what both of us are teaching.
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I agree with you but I get the feeling that I am misunderstood when i say I support the BiBi method...I think many think I am talking about a teaching strategy and I am not. I know different teaching strategies within each classroom are uniquie whether the children are deaf or hearing in order to meet each child's learning style.
When I talk about the BiBi approach I am talking about a educational environment that deaf children have equal rights and access to language, communication, information, social situation, and etc etc as their hearing counterparts do when they go to school.
That's all I am talking about. Teaching strategies is another subject so I am wondering if I am being misunderstood here when I talk about wanting all deaf children to have equal rights as their hearing counterparts in the educational system.
That's why I am starting to give up on these Deaf ed threads and go in other threads...LOL!
I agree with you but I get the feeling that I am misunderstood when i say I support the BiBi method...I think many think I am talking about a teaching strategy and I am not. I know different teaching strategies within each classroom are uniquie whether the children are deaf or hearing in order to meet each child's learning style.
When I talk about the BiBi approach I am talking about a educational environment that deaf children have equal rights and access to language, communication, information, social situation, and etc etc as their hearing counterparts do when they go to school.
That's all I am talking about. Teaching strategies is another subject so I am wondering if I am being misunderstood here when I talk about wanting all deaf children to have equal rights as their hearing counterparts in the educational system.
That's why I am starting to give up on these Deaf ed threads and go in other threads...LOL!
It is that way in all educational thread. I have been researching bibi approach since if you read the threads, it is confusing. I felt confused with the approach and teaching strategies. I have formed my opinion not as an eduator, I can't form that opinion since I don't have a deaf education degree, why I see bibi education benefits, I tend to lean to the TC classroom. I can see a TC classroom approach supports my benefits of education. But it is my opinion.
My special education benefits support more pull out for reading at least 2 years below grade level in older grades with mainstream support. Children with good programs to build an educational foundation that also supports self-esteem and long term outlook is the best in assisting the children to become independent. That is where we both agree. Education is best if the whole child and not the data, the grade, or the paper is the focus.
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Right...like I cant form an opinion about education for hearing kids with special needs until I get actual experience in it. I only know about it thru theory. I could base my opinions using the research I learned but since I have been teaching, I know that too often what happens IRL is completely different than what the research says. Granted, I am not disregarding research but just advise those to really think carefully when forming opinions based on research or a 3rd person.
I am glad that there is a pull out for reading for those kids cuz it does help a lot in a lot of situations. Keep up the good work!
I better stop while I am ahead cuz I am going way off topic. Thanks! Have a great night!
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rockdrummer
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Where did anybody ever say that??
There is a huge difference between mis-information and accurate information coming from someone who has done research but not necessarily worked in the field.
You don't give yourself enough credit. I'm sure you can voice an educated opinion on rocket science if you did your homework and research the topic. Lets use your example. Lets say that in the field of rocket science there was not a consensus amongst the many people that work in the field. It's controversial. What would lead you to side with one view over another. Now lets complicate the matter a little. What you believe to be in the best interest of your child is at stake. Now how do you decide on which side of the controversy you want to be on? The good news is that rocket science is not controversial but how to raise and educate a deaf child is. It's not a simple as you make it sound. Why... Because it's controversial.
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rockdrummer
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You see, that is where you are wrong. So are you saying then that parents should not have an opinion in their childs education because they don't have experiences as teachers?
That's not always true. There is research out there based on empirical studies. which is real life. So now we should just throw away the non-emperical research and listen to only what the people that work in the field say. Guess what. The people that work in the field can't even agree with each other. In real life raising and educating a deaf child is surrounded by controversy not to mention the political BS that plagues the educational system.
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