Survey of Bi-Bi programs - Empirical Article

[shel90]

Paints a pretty bleak picture for bi-bi education. If you had to fix it how would you go about it? Aren't there any current groups advocating this? If not, then why?

Increase teacher's salaries...that is one way to go about it. I think there is the BiBi coalittion and McDaniel's has a committe to do research on how to improve programs all over.

 

[Interpretrator]

Paints a pretty bleak picture for bi-bi education. If you had to fix it how would you go about it?

My impression from that article is that there are programs out there that really do believe they're providing bilingual-bicultural education but don't have the resources, language models, etc. I think most importantly administrators of these programs need to be educated about the principles and reasoning behind bi-bi education.

I do think it wouldn't be prohibitively difficult to improve some of these programs that have already gone partway with their positive attitude towards English and ASL used together, but yeah, it would take some proactive advocacy.

 

[rockdrummer]

Increase teacher's salaries...that is one way to go about it. I think there is the BiBi coalittion and McDaniel's has a committe to do research on how to improve programs all over.

That's a common complaint in the teaching field I do believe. I'ts a common complaint at my place of business too. Most teachers that I know of are not in it for the money. If these programs are truly better for the kids then I hope the coalition has a positive impact.

 

[rockdrummer]

My impression from that article is that there are programs out there that really do believe they're providing bilingual-bicultural education but don't have the resources, language models, etc. I think most importantly administrators of these programs need to be educated about the principles and reasoning behind bi-bi education.
I do think it wouldn't be prohibitively difficult to improve some of these programs that have already gone partway with their positive attitude towards English and ASL used together, but yeah, it would take some proactive advocacy.

Who is best suited to educate the educators? It seems to me that the schools that have comprehensive bi-bi programs that are successful could be the model. I also wonder if the successful programs have deaf teachers.

 

[jillio]

Increase teacher's salaries...that is one way to go about it. I think there is the BiBi coalittion and McDaniel's has a committe to do research on how to improve programs all over.

Agreed. And active recruitment of deaf individuals as deaf educators. But first, it is necessary to educate the hearing parents who seem to believe that a mainstream placement is superior to a bi-bi placement. The problems are in the social attitudes as much as within the educational arena. I daresay more deaf college students would be choosing deaf education as a viable alternative if the soical perseptions were changed.

 

[rockdrummer]

Agreed. And active recruitment of deaf individuals as deaf educators. But first, it is necessary to educate the hearing parents who seem to believe that a mainstream placement is superior to a bi-bi placement. The problems are in the social attitudes as much as within the educational arena. I daresay more deaf college students would be choosing deaf education as a viable alternative if the soical perseptions were changed.

I don't know that educating the parents would be the logical first choice but I do agree it's part of the equation. I as a parent would need to see a program in action along with metrics on achievement results before even seriously considering it. Maybe the best frist step is to get the educators to accept the approach and then like you say, activly recruit deaf educators. It's not that I feel the mainstream approach is superior and is more of a matter of available choices without having to pack up the family and move on a crap shoot.

 

[jillio]

I don't know that educating the parents would be the logical first choice but I do agree it's part of the equation. I as a parent would need to see a program in action along with metrics on achievement results before even seriously considering it. Maybe the best frist step is to get the educators to accept the approach and then like you say, activly recruit deaf educators. It's not that I feel the mainstream approach is superior and is more of a matter of available choices without having to pack up the family and move on a crap shoot.

And we can't get those metrics until we have chidlren enrolled in the program. In order to have chidlren enrolled in the program, parents need to be educated regarding the advantages of a Bi-Bi program. Parents still have first choice as to which program they enroll their children in. Demand fro parents for a qaulified Bi-Bi program serves to create job availability for deaf educators. Jop availability creates interest in studying the major in college. Interest in the major creates more programs of study.

 

[rockdrummer]

And we can't get those metrics until we have chidlren enrolled in the program. In order to have chidlren enrolled in the program, parents need to be educated regarding the advantages of a Bi-Bi program. Parents still have first choice as to which program they enroll their children in. Demand fro parents for a qaulified Bi-Bi program serves to create job availability for deaf educators. Jop availability creates interest in studying the major in college. Interest in the major creates more programs of study.

So it's all on the parents then eh? That's almost a setup for failure.

 

[shel90]

Did my recent post that I posted last night get removed? I posted about the number of deaf students starting in the BiBi programs since their diagnosis is small due to parents placing their children in other kinds of programs especially oral ones only to send their children to BiBi programs at a later age when they become delayed in language. Did that post ever get thru?

 

[jillio]

So it's all on the parents then eh? That's almost a setup for failure.

Did I say that? I said the parents need to be educated in order to make an informed decision regarding education alternatives. They are the ones to be educated. Someone must take responsibility for educating.

 

[jillio]

Did my recent post that I posted last night get removed? I posted about the number of deaf students starting in the BiBi programs since their diagnosis is small due to parents placing their children in other kinds of programs especially oral ones only to send their children to BiBi programs at a later age when they become delayed in language. Did that post ever get thru?

I never saw it. No reason for it to have been removed. But I agree with the points you made!

 

[TFWFalcon]

I never saw it. No reason for it to have been removed. But I agree with the points you made!

Same happen to me that I have some missing post in other thread. I send private message to Alex Chu about why remove post. He refuse answer my question since still today no answer. That reason I don't post lot here (alldeaf) often due Alex is lack of respect here. I had no clue why they removed it even there is no foul language.

 

[jillio]

Same happen to me that I have some missing post in other thread. I send private message to Alex Chu about why remove post. He refuse answer my question since still today no answer. That reason I don't post lot here (alldeaf) often due Alex is lack of respect here. I had no clue why they removed it even there is no foul language.

Oh, O.K. I didn't know that. I thought a post had to be offensive before it was removed.

 

[rockdrummer]

Did I say that? I said the parents need to be educated in order to make an informed decision regarding education alternatives. They are the ones to be educated. Someone must take responsibility for educating.

Sounds like a catch 22 situation to me. Who would be best to educate the parents?

 

[jillio]

Sounds like a catch 22 situation to me. Who would be best to educate the parents?

The professionals responsible for diagnosis should be referring out to programs that provide all views of all options, rather than those which only promote their own philosophy. I posted portions of a research report a short while ago in sign language and oralism, I believe, that looked at parental beliefs regarding the information they received. The conclusion was, doctors, audis, and the professionals who have first contact with the deaf child and the parents are not providing information, nor providing resources to the parents that inlcude all options available. Most often, the information neglected is inforamtion regarding the use of sign. Even though these parents had children that were implanted, their oral language was not developing as expected or with the ease they were led to believe it would, and the parents felt that the lack of information regarding the use of sign had not only deprived their children of the opportunity to acquire langugage in a normal and timely fashion, but that they had also been deprived of several years of communication with their children.

Doctors and audis should be responsible for the initial referrals, deaf educators, early intervention specialists, members of the deaf community, and other parents of deaf children should all be involved in the education of hearing parents of deaf children.

 

[rockdrummer]

The professionals responsible for diagnosis should be referring out to programs that provide all views of all options, rather than those which only promote their own philosophy. I posted portions of a research report a short while ago in sign language and oralism, I believe, that looked at parental beliefs regarding the information they received. The conclusion was, doctors, audis, and the professionals who have first contact with the deaf child and the parents are not providing information, nor providing resources to the parents that inlcude all options available. Most often, the information neglected is inforamtion regarding the use of sign. Even though these parents had children that were implanted, their oral language was not developing as expected or with the ease they were led to believe it would, and the parents felt that the lack of information regarding the use of sign had not only deprived their children of the opportunity to acquire langugage in a normal and timely fashion, but that they had also been deprived of several years of communication with their children.

Doctors and audis should be responsible for the initial referrals, deaf educators, early intervention specialists, members of the deaf community, and other parents of deaf children should all be involved in the education of hearing parents of deaf children.

OK... so that is not happening either. It just seems hopeless especially to hearing parents of newly diagnosed deaf babies.

 

[jillio]

OK... so that is not happening either. It just seems hopeless especially to hearing parents of newly diagnosed deaf babies.

Not hopeless, but difficult,to be sure. That is why it is important that we continue to post all sides on this forum. You never know when a parent is viewing that is looking for more information than what they have been provided by the professionals. Recently, we've had a couple of moms come on that were looking for the deaf perspective from adults, because they understood instinctively that the only person who can tell you what is is to be a deaf child is a deaf adult that has lived it.

 

[rockdrummer]

It seems to me after reading through much of this stuff that the bi-bi approach is a very good one for deaf children born to native signers. Does that then suggest that children born to hearing parents would do better with english?

 

[shel90]

It seems to me after reading through much of this stuff that the bi-bi approach is a very good one for deaf children born to native signers. Does that then suggest that children born to hearing parents would do better with english?

My son has a friend the same age as he is who is deaf from hearing parents. She has been raised with a BiBi approach since her deafness was diagnosed and her parents started learning ASL the moment they found out. That was 3 years ago and her language level was recently tested at the 4 year old level and she is only 3.

Doesnt matter what family the child is from...if the child is exposed to a language that they can access fully, they will have a better chance for developing higher literacy skills. I have seen personal proof of that over and over again.

 

[rockdrummer]

My son has a friend the same age as he is who is deaf from hearing parents. She has been raised with a BiBi approach since her deafness was diagnosed and her parents started learning ASL the moment they found out. That was 3 years ago and her language level was recently tested at the 4 year old level and she is only 3.

Doesnt matter what family the child is from...if the child is exposed to a language that they can access fully, they will have a better chance for developing higher literacy skills. I have seen personal proof of that over and over again.

I agree with that. The question is about which language the child is exposed to. If an american child was born to a spanish speaking family would the child do better if the family learned english or would it be better for the child to learn the native language of the parents? Naturally in the case of deaf children there would need be sign in order for the child to have access to the language.