Stem cell available in Kansas City

flypig said:
Stem Cell therapies draw my attention 10 years ago. It brings me hopes to hear better.
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I didn't know about stem cells till mid 2008.

And I may discuss my thought.
1 Going to China to get the therapy is not my choice. I am a HK citizen, and every year,
there are alternative therapies claiming that they may treat AIDS, Cancers, Deafness etc., and none has been proved effecetive.
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Stem cells today are treating many different diseases. Not sure if it can help with AIDS yet.

2 How to regenerate the inner ear hair is the main issues. The problem is:
the inner ear is a closed area, it is difficult to send enough stem cells there comparing heart mussel, lung etc., . In today's technology, the amount of stem cells we may transport to inner ear area is very limited. Using Virus (harmless) is one direction, but there is
a long road from here.
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Stem cells does not use viruses(which themselves can be dangerous) all that needs to be done is inject ~20 million stem cells by IV in arm. A small amount of them will migrate to your cochlea and the average improvement is 20db per treatment. I can repeat this as often as once a month.

Unless the researchers solves the point 2, I don't think it is the right time to risk
a bundle of cash.
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Stem cells already works, we have seen Chloe's amazing success. We will see many more successes in the next few months and years.

faire_jour said:
Deafdude,

Right in your audiogram you can see that you aren't aided up to where a CI hears. My daughter's audiologist doesn't let you leave the booth until you are above 30 db in ALL frequencies. You were not there from 2000 hz and above. THAT is why parents get a CI. So that our kids can hear all the speech sounds, not just some.
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They did not have transpositional HAs back in 1998. I made do very well with the HA technology of that time. CI back in 1998 wasn't much help, maybe 10% better speech than what I got with HAs in 1998. But I still understood enough speech to be 100% oral, speak clearly and understand what others say(I did lipread alot) The audiologist did mention CI to my dad in case I lost all my residual hearing. I would not have wanted a CI unless I heard zip with HAs. But CI is a moot point today. Once I get my improvement in my hearing, ill be there at 2000Hz and above. Ill make sure of this with transposition if necessary. 25% of people have so much hearing that HAs would have done the job fine, no need for CI. Let me tell you, id be very happy if my hearing was as good as those 25% who got CI. Ill be able to do very, very well with HAs and even hear to some degree without HAs!

Bottesini said:
You are young, and you are making oldbob sad. Are you a stemcell salesperson from overseas?
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He is my friend who became deaf in one ear due to a tennis ball hitting his ear and rupturing the delicate hair cells. He would love to be able to hear again with both ears and feels so one-sided. I don't know why oldbob doesn't want stem cells, but I respect his choice. His hearing is pretty good anyway, wish I had his hearing! Some of us here want stem cells and oldbob provided more information in this thread. I thank him for this.
 
OneSided said:
As for your second point, a complete cure at this point is not realistic, but an improvement in HEARING is. That is to say one can reduce their deafness to hear more with stem cells and HA. The main advantage being that it is a natural process. Stem cells tend to migrate towards an injured organ/tissue thus reducing hassle of the stem cells reaching the inner ear, as the case of Chloe Sohl illustrates.

You have a point when you imply that a complete FDA approved cure is safer and better but as deafdude has mentioned treatments like Chloe Shols are available now.
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From my understanding, unless the scientists find ways to deliver the
stem cells to inner ear, there will be no improvements on hearing.
The traditional stem cells injection does not solve the problems here. As I mentioned, researchers are finding ways to make it happen.

There are statements from different clinics that claimed there are improvements after stem cell therapy, we may see the testimony of the patients, but NO details like the age of the patients, audtiogram before and afterwards etc.

In case, some clinics told you, they found a way to deliver the stem cells
to inner ear, it is a big news and you would see the news on BBC, CNN. It is the breakthrough that we look for the next step.
 
flypig, please see my reply to you above. Do you have instant messenger? Id love to discuss stem cells more. Also there's plenty of information in my blog. A deaf dude's life
 
deafdude1 said:
1 Stem cells does not use viruses(which themselves can be dangerous) all that
needs to be done is inject ~20 million stem cells by IV in arm. A small
amount of them will migrate to your cochlea and the average improvement
is 20db per treatment. I can repeat this as often as once a month.

2 Stem cells already works, we have seen Chloe's amazing success. We will
see many more successes in the next few months and years.
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1 Deafdude, please kindly refer to:
About Us -- Cochlear Implant -- University of Miami School of Medicine
Another approach is to inject genes into the inner ear that are responsible for growing new hair cells. The mouse Math1 gene and its human equivalent, the Hath1 gene have the potential to restore hair cells. However, the only way to deliver these genes has been by attaching them to a virus which, by its nature, inserts itself into the nucleus of a cell and turns that cell into a hair cell.

I wonder the possibilities of 20DB improvements unless there are evidence.

BTW, what is the cost of inject ~20 million stem cells by IV in arm every month.

2 In the moment, there is no evidence that Chole curing involves inner ear hairs.

Well, in case the stem cell therapy no improvements on the hearing, I believe
it brings good effects on your body. If you decide to go for the therapy, I wish you good luck. When you plan to go abroad? Is the clinic locates in China? Please let me know the exact location. If it is near Hong Kong like Guangzhou, I may come to say Hi and buy you a drink. :cheers::cheers:
 
flypig said:
1 Deafdude, please kindly refer to:
About Us -- Cochlear Implant -- University of Miami School of Medicine
Another approach is to inject genes into the inner ear that are responsible for growing new hair cells. The mouse Math1 gene and its human equivalent, the Hath1 gene have the potential to restore hair cells. However, the only way to deliver these genes has been by attaching them to a virus which, by its nature, inserts itself into the nucleus of a cell and turns that cell into a hair cell.

I wonder the possibilities of 20DB improvements unless there are evidence.

BTW, what is the cost of inject ~20 million stem cells by IV in arm every month.

2 In the moment, there is no evidence that Chole curing involves inner ear hairs.

Well, in case the stem cell therapy no improvements on the hearing, I believe
it brings good effects on your body. If you decide to go for the therapy, I wish you good luck. When you plan to go abroad? Is the clinic locates in China? Please let me know the exact location. If it is near Hong Kong like Guangzhou, I may come to say Hi and buy you a drink. :cheers::cheers:
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Have you seen my blog yet? All your answers are already mentioned there.

http://arep.med.harvard.edu/pdf/Aging/Izumikawa05.pdf

Genes already proven to work and improve 40+ db of hearing. However stem cells are way safer and if they work for me, I have no interest in genes.

The cost of stem cells is a fraction the cost of CI. There is plenty of evidence of stem cells regrowing hair cells in animals. We are seeing the same story in humans. 90% chance stem cells will give me some degree of improvement. If not, I lose nothing but several thousand. I am probably getting it in Nepsis. I have AIM messenger, you may leave a comment in my blog on your IM screename and we can discuss this more :)
 
The DeafDude keeps wondering why I don't want Stem Cell treatment. Its time I answered him with this analogy. I have an old 89 pickup that I use to tow my trailer and for chores. I would like a new pickup, but they cost about 25 to 30 Thousand. My old pickup was only used for 200 miles the last 3 years. I have given my trailer to my son. At my age do you think a new pickup is a wise purchase? I would consider CI IF insurance would pay for it. Insurance won't pay for Stem Cell Therapy. Actually at this point I'm not really interested in either one. I started this thread because I read DeafDude's posts that indicated you could only get treatment in China. I wanted to prove to him that the treatment and research is going on here in the US. I really don't give a Rats A$$ if he gets the treatment or not.

Sorry if I was insensitive to anyone. By the way, My new Naida IX UP's have helped a lot. I would recommend them to anyone that needs high power HA's.

Bob
 
deafdude1 said:
Thanks for the answer, I now understand why you don't want stem cells. I thought it was a cost issue and was correct. Still have more questions, including why you would consider CI(even for free) seeing you hear better with HAs than most hear with CI as ive said over and over. Please see the earlier reply to you here:

AllDeaf.com - View Single Post - Stem cell available in Kansas City
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What do "most" hear with CI's? Can you show me where you got this information?
 
oldbob is wise. Glad that your new hearing aids are better! :D
 
This guy got 100% on sentences with a CI.

Curse of Silence: Latest results just in

Li-Li got 88% on words with her CI.

Grendel’s Kitchen

Miss Kat got 86% (I think her score will be much higher in Jan. this was only after 8 months) on words.

Miss Kat's Deaf journey: Audiology

Hear Again scores greater than 90%.

Both girls on Cochlear Implant Online score well over 90%.

This boy hears at 98% on words.

FAQs and STATS


Now, I'm not saying that ALL people with CI's hear this well, or that all can even hear speech. I'm trying to point out that many hear very very well, so, Deafdude, what is "average"?
 
Totally agree Miss Kat's Mom! And I'm convinced Li-Li would have done better if we weren't vegetarians and she wasn't just 3YO :) : our audi was pretty sure most of the words she missed were for lack of vocabulary, and not hearing issues: she's never seen a porkchop or a cooked turkey and both were on her test :) But it was a kick in the pants for us: we're working hard on vocabulary now, even the meat stuff!

But joking aside, I'm thrilled w/88%, and we're not even doing any AVT, so we're considered 'ASL-using slackers'. I think if Li-Li was in an oral school she'd be doing better with speech discrimination, but then she wouldn't be getting two languages at once -- and I'm OK with that trade off.
 
20 million stem cells by IV in arm. A small amount of them will migrate to your cochlea and the average improvement is 20db per treatment.
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So how do they get the stem cells to target the damaged area that they want to be repaired?
Now, I'm not saying that ALL people with CI's hear this well, or that all can even hear speech. I'm trying to point out that many hear very very well, so, Deafdude, what is "average"?
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Not saying that Ci doesn't work well..........but the results in the hearing booth vs. real life can be drasticly different.
Not everyone talks with a "professional speaker" voice.....most audis subconsciously speak with a professional speaker voice.
I would have to correct this.....that a small althugh significent percentage can hear really well with CI......most prolly are functionally hoh.
 
deafdyke said:
So how do they get the stem cells to target the damaged area that they want to be repaired?
Not saying that Ci doesn't work well..........but the results in the hearing booth vs. real life can be drasticly different.
Not everyone talks with a "professional speaker" voice.....most audis subconsciously speak with a professional speaker voice.
I would have to correct this.....that a small althugh significent percentage can hear really well with CI......most prolly are functionally hoh.
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Right, I agree. But Deafdude continously says that people who are clear CI candidates will NOT hear better. He implied that the average CI user would score around 50% in the booth and I think that is crap. He is full of it. There is no comparison between a CI and HA's for a severe-profound loss. That is why the criteria is the way it is. For those who are not candidates, HA's work well. For those who are, CI's work better.
 
faire_jour said:
This guy got 100% on sentences with a CI.

Curse of Silence: Latest results just in
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He also scored 58% on monosyllabic words. Here, he says average(link) is 30%. Ive read around and the average is 50% or so. FDA requires you to be at 20% or less for monosyllabic words(50% for sentences)

Li-Li got 88% on words with her CI.

Grendel’s Kitchen
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Her test was NU-CHIPS picture identification word lists(close set choice of 4) but open set would be too hard at her age, I understand. When shes older, she could score 88% on open set sentences. She has an amazing CI result to hear at 15-20db(average is 30db) I have a speech test like that on my computer and score around 60%.

Miss Kat got 86% (I think her score will be much higher in Jan. this was only after 8 months) on words.

Miss Kat's Deaf journey: Audiology
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Thought that was open set sentences, HINT-C for children?

Hear Again scores greater than 90%.
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She's doing great with her newer 2nd CI.

Both girls on Cochlear Implant Online score well over 90%.

This boy hears at 98% on words.

FAQs and STATS
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That website will only show you the best results, but regardless, I am happy for those children.

I'm trying to point out that many hear very very well, so, Deafdude, what is "average"?
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Average sentence=85-90%, around 50% monosyllabic words for CI as ive mentioned before. This is also the average for someone with 75-80db HL with properly fitted HAs(see my speech thread)

GrendelQ please see my long reply to you here regarding you asking your CI surgeon about stem cells and my audiogram showing how well I hear with HAs. This is why I don't understand why those with better hearing than me can't get to better than 35db aided?

AllDeaf.com - View Single Post - Stem cell available in Kansas City

deafdyke said:
So how do they get the stem cells to target the damaged area that they want to be repaired?
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The stem cells travel everywhere in your body. A small amount migrate to your cochlea or any other damaged area. The damaged area sends off a chemical signal which the stem cells can detect then they migrate to that area.

faire_jour said:
Right, I agree. But Deafdude continously says that people who are clear CI candidates will NOT hear better. He implied that the average CI user would score around 50% in the booth and I think that is crap. He is full of it. There is no comparison between a CI and HA's for a severe-profound loss. That is why the criteria is the way it is. For those who are not candidates, HA's work well. For those who are, CI's work better.
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50% is for monosyllabic word but for sentence, it would be about 35% higher. One of your own links shows this guy getting 58% on monosyllabic words, this is still above average.
 
You have excuse after excuse. "That person is better than average", "that person is a star", "that doesn't count".

If everyone is better than average, average changes.


And as for the 35 db question, I've explained that to you several times. One does not want to over amplify the lows, so that you can't hear the highs. Hearing results shouldn't slope down, if they do, you need to lower the gain in the lows. Low frequencies already have more power, so you can't make then louder than the high's.

You just don't believe me.
 
faire_jour said:
You have excuse after excuse. "That person is better than average", "that person is a star", "that doesn't count".

If everyone is better than average, average changes.
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Youve been showing me star CI results(95......98, 99, 100% speech) The average factors in the bad CI results as well, not only the good, better and best.

And as for the 35 db question, I've explained that to you several times. One does not want to over amplify the lows, so that you can't hear the highs. Hearing results shouldn't slope down, if they do, you need to lower the gain in the lows. Low frequencies already have more power, so you can't make then louder than the high's.
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When you can't hear the highs due to having no residual hearing in those frequencies, it becomes a moot point. Any amount of gains in the highs for me does squat. Most of us have a sloping unaided audiogram so we get the best with a sloping aided audiogram. Many of us have such poor or no hearing in the highs that making the lows louder is the only way we can hear *something* I know this from experience and my own hearing.
 
deafdude, yes Li-Li is a star in my eyes :) , but we are not the example you think: we don't do AVT or oral school. My daughter is at a signing school for the deaf. We are considered slackers in the world of CIs in terms of accomplishment (intentionally: we are sacrificing a focus on speech development during the school day for bilingual learning environment, inculcation into deaf culture, exposure to deaf teachers and other role models, deaf peers, etc.). At 88% speech recognition, I believe* she actually performs lower than average for her CI peer group at this point -- primarily due to shortages in her vocabulary -- although I'm confident that this will even out in a couple of years (plus, she'll have two beautiful languages!).

*I can't claim to have hard data to back an average score on that test for her particular age group --the studies I've seen are limited within specific brands of implants and are for older children or adults, so I'm going by a very non-scientific assessment of CI peers we encounter. I'm wondering where you've found CI #s that indicate the examples Faire Jour gave are above average.
 
So does that mean I'm "star"? I scored almost 80% from low 40% in sentence test. Monosyllable words is hard for anyone with any kind of hearing loss things sound same! Its same idea as speech in noise, anyone with hearing loss will have difficulity.
I'm no where near "star" student with CI I didn't do any avt therapy I didn't do listening therapy its all just hearing at level we're supposed to hear and it come thru clearly so its natural for people with CI to score really well. Duh its like people with wrong prescription glasses getting correct one and things are suddenly clear so of course it come naturally if he score higher in test to name what he can see now compared to previous one. Its c-l-e-a-r unlike hearing aid only amplify some hearing and steeper the loss more disortion come with it.
I'm no star, I and everyone are only human and we just happen to prove that CI is successful for us, you just don't want to hear that because you seem to want to be right that you're hearing "great" when you're deaf as a post and you have no idea what sound are supposed to sound like so don't try anything its like physically disabled person saying he have the best running shoes because he tried walking with it using walker and it feel fine but in reality, he can't run he don't know what its supposed to feel like, sure he'd think he's fine and it feel good to him because its only thing he know right now he never ran he'd not know so anybody who doesn't know shouldn't argue with anyone until they experience it firsthand to even start making any claim.
 
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