Some thoughts?

[jillio]

they are in denial then.

Big time.

 

[Mrs Bucket]

Mrs. Bucket. Only one correction: I have my Master's, and have defended my dissertation for my doctorate. My thesis was on Deaf issues, and the ways in which the hearing continue to underserve and misserve their needs.

Many thanks for the correction.

Wow, you continue to amaze me with your work!

 

[jillio]

Many thanks for the correction.

Wow, you continue to amaze me with your work!

No need to be amazed. I'm just trying to take the opportunity to become more valuable to those I serve.

 

[faire_jour]

No, dear, that is communication, and it happens naturally and freely as communication is meant to. It does not require directed activities, nor is it dependent upon an agenda.

I agree, and that is how you teach spoken language as well.

 

[faire_jour]

If you don't agree with the philosophy of bi-bi, you have other options available to you. If you don't think your daughter is getting the services she should have in a bi-bi environment, you have the option of placing her somewhere else. If you don't think the school is spending approriate time on AVT, you have the option of contracting for outside services. What you don't have the option of doing is forcing the school you have chosen to place her in to change their philosophy just to suit your whims. It is working for the other children. You knew what the philosophy of the school was prior to placing her there. If you have decided that you aren't satisfied with that placement, then change placements. You do not have the option of forcing a bi-bi program to adopt oral philopophies just because that is what you want for your child. Exercise your options. You have plenty of them available to you.

Explain how I am doing this? And how I am "trying to set back bi-bi 100 years".

 

[jillio]

I agree, and that is how you teach spoken language as well.

Doesn't have anything to do with teaching. Language doesn't need to be a directive teaching activity when it is presented in a mode the child can readily acquire.

 

[jillio]

Explain how I am doing this? And how I am "trying to set back bi-bi 100 years".

By demanding that they add AVT to a program that doesn't use it based on the philosophy they operate under. There are many programs that do offer AVT. If that is your concern, then enroll her in a program that offers it, or get it through contract yourself. You cannot demand that a bi-bi program change their entire philosophy just for your child.

 

[faire_jour]

They are meeting the needs of those children requiring a bi-bi environment. If FJ's daughter doesn't need that, or if she thinks her daughter doesn't need that, then she has the option of changing placements. She does not have the option of changing the school's philosophy. Not legally, not morally, and not ethically.

My daughter (and several other students with auditory abilities) need a bi-bi educational enviroment but also need appropriate service for aural rehab, their needs are NOT being met.

 

[faire_jour]

Please, rick, tell it like it really is: you talked to many oral deaf. The oral deaf are not representative of the deaf population as a whole.

And you are correct. I did not corner the market on how to raise a deaf child. The Deaf adults that suffered under such restrictive philosophies as oralism, and know exactly how their needs were not met, cornered the market on that. I simply listen to the valuable advice they have to give. Combine that with the experts in child development, cognitive sciences, and specialists in language development, and you've got the most valuable information that can be found.

Does anyone have information on the percentage of people who are born with, or acquire very young, a hearing loss who are members of the Deaf community vs. not?

 

[Bottesini]

My daughter (and several other students with auditory abilities) need a bi-bi educational enviroment but also need appropriate service for aural rehab, their needs are NOT being met.

Then as everyone has told you repeatedly, put her in a school that does what you want.

 

[jillio]

My daughter (and several other students with auditory abilities) need a bi-bi educational enviroment but also need appropriate service for aural rehab, their needs are NOT being met.

A bi-bi program is not obligated to provide your daughter with additional aural rehab at your demand. You enrolled her in the program knowing full well what services were offered. If you want services outside of that, then you are obligated to provide them as her parent. You have no ethical, legal, or moral right to dictate methodology or philosophy of a given school.

It's tatamount to enrolling a child in a Catholic school, and then trying to demand that the Catholic school also provide instruction in Hebrew.:roll:

 

[faire_jour]

By demanding that they add AVT to a program that doesn't use it based on the philosophy they operate under. There are many programs that do offer AVT. If that is your concern, then enroll her in a program that offers it, or get it through contract yourself. You cannot demand that a bi-bi program change their entire philosophy just for your child.

I'm not asking for AVT. I am asking for the auditory rehab neccessary for my daughter to be able to use her CI to the best of her ability. Courts have declared time and time again that auditory rehab for a CI is different than speech and is a service that schools must provide when appropriate.

 

[faire_jour]

Doesn't have anything to do with teaching. Language doesn't need to be a directive teaching activity when it is presented in a mode the child can readily acquire.

Ok, than I am not "teaching spoken language", she is just learning it.

 

[jillio]

I'm not asking for AVT. I am asking for the auditory rehab neccessary for my daughter to be able to use her CI to the best of her ability. Courts have declared time and time again that auditory rehab for a CI is different than speech and is a service that schools must provide when appropriate.

They declared that mainstreamed students in a public school must receive those services necessary to allow for equal access to the curriculum. A bi-bi program already provides equal access to the curriculum. Schools are not a rehabilitation faciltiy. They are an educational facility. You want more rehab, contract for it. That is your responsibility as a parent. Not the schools. The school did not make the decision to have her implanted, and they are not responsibile for the rehabilitation that goes with that decision. You are.

 

[faire_jour]

They declared that mainstreamed students in a public school must receive those services necessary to allow for equal access to the curriculum.

And someone said they shouldn't?

 

[jillio]

Ok, than I am not "teaching spoken language", she is just learning it.

Nope, you are teaching it through directive interaction. That is the whole point.:roll: And you are attempting to dictate to the school that they do the same. If she was "just learning it" then you wouldn't be on your high horse about her need for additional rehabilitative services to supplement the learning.

 

[jillio]

And someone said they shouldn't?

No, faire_jour, no one said they didn't. I was clarifying your misperception of what the courts have ruled. Your daughter doesn't fall under equal access. She is already getting equal access to the curriculum because she is in an educational environment that is structured to provide that without additional accommodation.

 

[faire_jour]

Nope, you are teaching it through directive interaction. That is the whole point.:roll: And you are attempting to dictate to the school that they do the same. If she was "just learning it" then you wouldn't be on your high horse about her need for additional rehabilitative services to supplement the learning.

Hmmm, if she doesn't learn it just by exposure, I wonder where she is getting it? Odd....
For what it's worth, you know what she did in therapy last friday? Played Candyland. The therapist just played the game with her, no ASL. Just a learning opportunity full of language.

 

[jillio]

Hmmm, if she doesn't learn it just by exposure, I wonder where she is getting it? Odd....
For what it's worth, you know what she did in therapy last friday? Played Candyland. The therapist just played the game with her, no ASL. Just a learning opportunity full of language.

And that, my dear, is a directed activity. A teaching situation. It was used not for the simple purpose of spending time with a child and enjoying sharing an activity with them, but with the sole purpose of teaching speech. It has a far different result than the learning a child gets from incidental play...especially incidental play with peers.

I might also ask: why is it you are not participating in these sessions? Child/parent intervention has been shown to be far more effective because it teaches the parent to capitalize on a child's natural ability to learn through incidental play. Instead, you take her to directive therapy in which you don't particiapate.

 

[faire_jour]

And that, my dear, is a directed activity. A teaching situation. It was used not for the simple purpose of spending time with a child and enjoying sharing an activity with them, but with the sole purpose of teaching speech. It has a far different result than the learning a child gets from incidental play...especially incidental play with peers.

I might also ask: why is it you are not participating in these sessions? Child/parent intervention has been shown to be far more effective because it teaches the parent to capitalize on a child's natural ability to learn through incidental play. Instead, you take her to directive therapy in which you don't particiapate.

Obviously you have never seen me at therapy or you would know that I do participate. 50% me and her and the therapist, 50% just her and the therapist. Tuesday for an hour, Friday for an hour.