Some thoughts?

[Babyblue]

I come back 3 hours later and 3-4 pages later..

eh? What is that saying.


Oh yeah! "you snooze you lose"

 

[deafdyke]

faire_jour, I second everyone else. You're not against the bi-bi philosophy per se. I think what you're coming up against is more the fact that there's a derth of really good speech therapists out there. As a result, your Deaf School really didn't get the cream of the crop when it comes to speech therapists. This could be due to the public vs. private school funding. I mean have you seen the cost of tution at a School for the Deaf? No wonder a lot of the good speechies go private. They can make more money that way.
I totally and completly agree that speech/AVT as a pull out can be a compatible part of a bi-bi program. Perhaps if your daughter went to a school with more resources, she could do better in speech.

It's not supposed to be about therapy but about language all day every day. You "do AVT" by speaking rich language with the child.

Well I can kind of understand. You mean it's not therapy as in John Tracy Correspondence Course or speech therapy session therapy. But it's still therapy you know.

 

[faire_jour]

faire_jour, I second everyone else. You're not against the bi-bi philosophy per se. I think what you're coming up against is more the fact that there's a derth of really good speech therapists out there. As a result, your Deaf School really didn't get the cream of the crop when it comes to speech therapists. This could be due to the public vs. private school funding. I mean have you seen the cost of tution at a School for the Deaf? No wonder a lot of the good speechies go private. They can make more money that way.
I totally and completly agree that speech/AVT as a pull out can be a compatible part of a bi-bi program. Perhaps if your daughter went to a school with more resources, she could do better in speech.


Well I can kind of understand. You mean it's not therapy as in John Tracy Correspondence Course or speech therapy session therapy. But it's still therapy you know.

Depends on your definition of therapy. Is signing to your child "ASL therapy"? Is walking through the zoo talking about the animals therapy?

 

[rick48]

It is unacceptable to me. First a child must learn to hear, then they can learn to talk....makes sense, doesn't it!

Absolutely, a child's receptive language will develop faster than her expressive language.

 

[Jiro]

Absolutely, a child's receptive language will develop faster than her expressive language.

for deaf child - that's visually
for hearing child - that's audibly

for proving my point

 

[rick48]

but how does a 100% stone deaf person talk without learning to hear? :scratch:

If you are referring to their status even with HAs or CIs, very few do. However, for those who have CIs many have been able to do so.

 

[rick48]

I cant hear but I can talk well enough for almost all hearing people to understand me without a problem.

So what's your point? Are you saying that you are representative of the norm?

 

[naisho]

I cant hear but I can talk well enough for almost all hearing people to understand me without a problem.

So what's your point? Are you saying that you are representative of the norm?

I think the catch is that faire didn't want jillio's opinion and comments about the whole issue, and that real deaf/hoh people's opinions actually mattered to her...

Is this even wrong to share now? :scratch:

 

[rick48]

for deaf child - that's visually
for hearing child - that's audibly

for proving my point

Sorry to burst your bubble, but for deaf children with HAs and CIs it can be auditorily as well.

 

[Jiro]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but for deaf children with HAs and CIs it can be auditorily as well.

but I'm dominantly visual. That's why I retain information much better visually (reading) than audibly (listening). Auditory is just my secondary "support". Sorry but my bubble didn't burst.

 

[rick48]

I think the catch is that faire didn't want jillio's opinion and comments about the whole issue, and that real deaf/hoh people's opinions actually mattered to her...

Is this even wrong to share now? :scratch:

Share what?

That because a person believes they can speak well with a profound loss, that all profoundly deaf children can do the same and need not bother with HAs and CIs for they can all replicate her experience?

Or should those children who are using HAs and CIs be given the appropriate speech and language therapy that will give them the opportunity to develop speech?

 

[rick48]

but I'm dominantly visual. That's why I retain information much better visually (reading) than audibly (listening). Auditory is just my secondary "support". Sorry but my bubble didn't burst.

And I have a deaf daughter who learns better auditorily and a hearing daughter who learns better visually, so what is your point?

All children, including deaf children, are unique individuals and should not be subjected to a "one size fits all" philosophy.

 

[Jiro]

And I have a deaf daughter who learns better auditorily and a hearing daughter who learns better visually, so what is your point?

All children, including deaf children, are unique individuals and should not be subjected to a "one size fits all" philosophy.

and we're not advocating for one size fits all. what's your point?

 

[deafdyke]

but for deaf children with HAs and CIs it can be auditorily as well.

And how is auditory sucess measured? What percentage of oral dhh kids are aural learners? What percentage of oral dhh kids have a Verbal IQ (which measures mastery of language) equalivant to hearing kids?

 

[Hear Again]

Auditory success (for children with CIs) is measured by hearing tests that determine the percentage of sentence understanding in quiet and in noise as well as single word understanding. Of course, success varies from one child to another. For one child, auditory success may mean being able to hear environmental sounds while for another, it means being able to talk on the phone. Having said that, if I had a deaf child who I decided to have implanted, they would definitely learn sign in addition to speech. If it came to the point where my child was struggling with learning speech, I would immediately substitute ASL in place of SPL.

 

[shel90]

I come back 3 hours later and 3-4 pages later..

 

[jillio]

I have never lived it. I have the same experience as Jillio, that of the parent of a Deaf child and that which has been told to me by others.

Just because you are the parent of a deaf child doesn't mean that we have the same experience. Quite obviously, your experience is quite different from mine.

 

[jillio]

Actually, getting information directly from a parent about the communication method she used for her child is firsthand information.

The mere fact that a person relates their life story does not make that experience valid or reliable. For all we know the person relating the experience could be a raving lunatic. The additional fact that the story is being told over the internet also detracts from the validity or reliability of the story as well. For instance, by your own words, honorary title notwithstanding, everything you relate about the deaf is secondhand and thus, according to you: "Not very valid or reliable".

Parents seeking information for their deaf children can get it from very many sources and ultimately it is thankfully left to them, and not you, to determine what sources of information are valid and relaible and what are not.

Finally, one of the things Heather Whitestone's mom said to us was similar to what we had heard from virtually every deaf adult with an implant and every parent of an older child with an implant: that it was remarkable to see what a difference it was making in childrens' lives and that they wish that it had been around when they or their children were younger.

Perhaps you need to listen when myself, Jackie, Cloggy and others say that the childhood experiences of non-implanted deaf adults who were raised orally are not similar to what our children have and are experiencing.

Perhaps you should listen to what the deaf adults who have been implanted are saying. You, Jackie, Cloggy, and faire_jour, are like myself, hearing. Your perspective is that of being outside looking in. The only way to be on the inside looking out is to listen to the people who have actually experienced deafness. The deaf individuals themselves. Parental reports are notorious for being innacurate when compared to the reported experiences of the deaf child.

 

[jillio]

No, but speech is on the list.

Also, I believe that phonetic awareness has impact on literacy. Reading is processed in the brain as an auditory function. If those skills are weak, there can be trouble.

Reading is not processed in the brain as an auditory function. This is entirely and completely false.

 

[jillio]

I believe that some bi-bi schools don't value spoken language. They think that oral skills don't matter. That does not appeal to many hearing parents, especially those who have chosen a CI.

It isn't about what appeals to the parent...it is about what is best for the child.