So, will the deaf culture be there?

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Bottesini said:
What's your point here? Even though it is just Wiki, did you read it?
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Yes. I did, in fact, it is a very popular subject to talk about in Canadian high schools and universities. Point is, it doesn't have to be abortion or eugenics to be a "genocide."
 
souggy said:
Yes. I did, in fact, it is a very popular subject to talk about in Canadian high schools and universities. Point is, it doesn't have to be abortion or eugenics to be a "genocide."
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I guess I had better start doing research.
 
it's the same old drivel as we know it. Only new words and terminology are being coined to describe the different situations. No need to do research. :)
 
souggy said:
It's not so much the movie itself, but the history behind the movie. I was referring to the "Lost Generation" or "Stolen Generation" within the Aboriginal and First Nations communities. Many people within those communities see people ("half-breed" or "half-caste") who are born to white families as part of their extended families, even if they are two or three generations removed or look more white than native/aboriginal. The Deaf sees deaf babies as extended family of their own. Understand there is no "forceful" removal within the American Deaf society, however the "extended family" viewpoint is still there and is still valid-- so the Deaf's cry of "cultural genocide" is just as valid as the Aboriginal or First Nations' cries.
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I had watched the movie "Rabbit-Proof Fence". It was set in Australia and the half breed children, who were force to live with the white families, had run away to go back home to their own culture place with their own families. They made the long journey and did tried to hide which was not easy for children back then. The white people have tried to assimilate many native people all over the world to be like the white people but we are still discriminate as usual even today, so there has been no change.

The deaf babies, even deaf children are being assimilated being able to hear perfect hearing and expect to listen which we could not pick up the word, even in hard of hearing children. No matter how struggle we strive to learn spoken language, it is still hard to lipread or even to pick up words which we fail. Hearing people including hearing parents want to assimilate them into spoken language in the future with no ASL. So if every deaf person had to learn to live in the hearing world only with spoken language. Then I have a feeling there will be no Deaf Culture. We need ASL in the Deaf Culture as it is important for visual communication, no matter what.
 
faire jour...WTF? No. I am NOT saying there's no such thing as an oral sucess. I KNOW that dhh kids can aquire oral abilty to a pretty good degree. Heck I've got pretty good oral skills myself. There ARE still many kids with significent expressive language issues.. It's just not as bad as it was in previous years. You're misunderstanding that while dhh kids can pick up oral abilty, many of them (not all) still have significent delays. It's just that the delays aren't as severe as in the old days. Are there kids with very little language delays? Of course. But there were superstars in the old days too. Heck, there was a kid who was rasied AVT who spoke six languages, that they used as "proof" in the old days that AVT was a superior methodology. Not to mention that even if language abilty is decent, many oral kids still have trouble with mechanics (eg articulation, volumne pitch, modulation etc) ..In addition the pragmatic social abilty in MANY if not most oral only dhh kids isn't that great. Oral only still has a LOT of problems. Not to mention that it is kind of difficult to be....ummmm " romanticly intiminate" in ...ummm certain situtions without hearing aids or CIs
 
deafdyke said:
faire jour...WTF? No. I am NOT saying there's no such thing as an oral sucess. I KNOW that dhh kids can aquire oral abilty to a pretty good degree. Heck I've got pretty good oral skills myself. There ARE still many kids with significent expressive language issues.. It's just not as bad as it was in previous years. You're misunderstanding that while dhh kids can pick up oral abilty, many of them (not all) still have significent delays. It's just that the delays aren't as severe as in the old days. Are there kids with very little language delays? Of course. But there were superstars in the old days too. Heck, there was a kid who was rasied AVT who spoke six languages, that they used as "proof" in the old days that AVT was a superior methodology. Not to mention that even if language abilty is decent, many oral kids still have trouble with mechanics (eg articulation, volumne pitch, modulation etc) ..In addition the pragmatic social abilty in MANY if not most oral only dhh kids isn't that great. Oral only still has a LOT of problems. Not to mention that it is kind of difficult to be....ummmm " romanticly intiminate" in ...ummm certain situtions without hearing aids or CIs
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But do you see the post above yours? The one that claims that deaf and even hoh people "not not pick up words". That is the garbage I am fighting against.

I disagree with you about numbers, plain and simple. Of the 30 deaf kids Miss Kat's age, 3 remain delayed in spoken language. She is the only one above Kindergarten with a CI, all the rest have hearing aids and come from ESL homes. ALL the kids with CI's reached age appropriate and were mainstreamed.
 
Bebonang said:
I had watched the movie "Rabbit-Proof Fence". It was set in Australia and the half breed children, who were force to live with the white families, had run away to go back home to their own culture place with their own families. They made the long journey and did tried to hide which was not easy for children back then. The white people have tried to assimilate many native people all over the world to be like the white people but we are still discriminate as usual even today, so there has been no change.
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It's not necessarily discrimination I was talking about. No one is taking deaf babies away from adults. What is happening is deaf children are being raised by hearing adults with little or no direct involvement in the Deaf culture. Parents don't see anything wrong because the deaf children are biologically theirs, just like how half-, quarter- and eighth- natives biologically belongs to their white parents; however all minority groups still feel like these children belong to them because they share the same ethnic identity. And with each generation, these outcries diminish.

I know, because a friend of mine is half native. Her father ran away, so her English mom is left to raise her as a single mom. She has now knowledge of native culture at all, and she has no interest in joining them; however the First Nations still see her as one of them, even though neither she nor the government recognize her bloodline. And when she have children, they will be quarter natives, and won't know the native culture at all either and it will continue until the culture itself is just a blip on the radar. Unlike what happened to the said friend, at least my Metis uncle, not related to me by blood, raised his quarter-native sons with some native culture and values.
 
souggy said:
It's not necessarily discrimination I was talking about. No one is taking deaf babies away from adults. What is happening is deaf children are being raised by hearing adults with little or no direct involvement in the Deaf culture. Parents don't see anything wrong because the deaf children are biologically theirs, just like how half-, quarter- and eighth- natives biologically belongs to their white parents; however all minority groups still feel like these children belong to them because they share the same ethnic identity. And with each generation, these outcries diminish.

I know, because a friend of mine is half native. Her father ran away, so her English mom is left to raise her as a single mom. She has now knowledge of native culture at all, and she has no interest in joining them; however the First Nations still see her as one of them, even though neither she nor the government recognize her bloodline. And when she have children, they will be quarter natives, and won't know the native culture at all either and it will continue until the culture itself is just a blip on the radar. Unlike what happened to the said friend, at least my Metis uncle, not related to me by blood, raised his quarter-native sons with some native culture and values.
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An ethnicity is not a choice, being Deaf is. The children belong to their family and their culture until the time that the family decided that they want to be involved with the Deaf community, or the child themself decides. A child with a hearing loss does not belong to the Deaf community by default. There is a huge portion of people with a hearing loss, even a loss from birth, that choose not to be part of the Deaf community.
 
Being deaf isn't a choice either, just like race is not a choice. You can't choose if you want to be white with red hair or tan with green eyes, any more you can choose to be stricken with deafness. Ethnicity is a choice-- you can either choose to acknowledge it exist or not. Whether or not one grew up with those values or whether or not one belong to a society that draws a hard line in the society is another story. You can choose to be a Canadian, a Deaf-Canadian or a Chinese-Canadian and conforms to the norms of those groups that you choose to belong to. Following the anthropological definition of "ethnicity" of shared language, social norms, shared culture and heritage, being Deaf is an ethnicity. One thing you have to separate is race and ethnicity; they are not the same thing at all. It's a common mistake.

As for the friend, she is not an ethnic native even according to census. She will tell you she's white, 100%, even though she will say her father was a pure Micmac. Is it dishonest? No, that is how she choose to acknowledge it. Yet the culturally-native people will look at her and say "you're one of us," even though she looks down on them and frown upon their ways.
 
souggy said:
Being deaf isn't a choice either, just like race is not a choice. You can't choose if you want to be white with red hair or tan with green eyes, any more you can choose to be stricken with deafness. Ethnicity is a choice-- you can either choose to acknowledge it exist or not. Whether or not one grew up with those values or whether or not one belong to a society that draws a hard line in the society is another story. You can choose to be a Canadian, a Deaf-Canadian or a Chinese-Canadian and conforms to the norms of those groups that you choose to belong to. Following the anthropological definition of "ethnicity" of shared language, social norms, shared culture and heritage, being Deaf is an ethnicity. One thing you have to separate is race and ethnicity; they are not the same thing at all. It's a common mistake.

As for the friend, she is not an ethnic native even according to census. She will tell you she's white, 100%, even though she will say her father was a pure Micmac. Is it dishonest? No, that is how she choose to acknowledge it. Yet the culturally-native people will look at her and say "you're one of us," even though she looks down on them and frown upon their ways.
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Being deaf is not a choice, but being Deaf is.
 
Wirelessly posted

So, you can understand why Deaf adults view babies that are not biologically theirs as one of their own? And feel like their culture is being taken away from future generations?

It doesn't affect me since I don't have the mindset to worry about tomorrow yet, and it won't affect a child who is immersed in the hearing world and doesn't struggle without a Deaf identity, but the validity of a "cultural genocide" is still there.
 
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makes me wonder... when I asked if they found a cure for deaf or 24/7 internal CI , would they still call themselves deaf, and if they do, it is because they truly feel part of the deaf culture?
 
deafgal001 said:
makes me wonder... when I asked if they found a cure for deaf or 24/7 internal CI , would they still call themselves deaf, and if they do, it is because they truly feel part of the deaf culture?
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That is the question. If the kids become fully, functionally hearing (but are still born with a hearing loss) will they be Deaf? Will the Deaf community accept them?
 
Wirelessly posted

It will bottleneck the generations down to those who are unable to afford the treatments (or the maintenance), the ones who don't believe in treatments and those who see their genes as an identity.


And since the cost of living is high for all North Americans, I doubt we will see large families again like the Dugglars or our ancestors' or at least not for a long time to come, so we probably won't see a large genetically Deaf population surging anytime soon. Otherwise, I am sure people like Shel and Mrs Buckets wouldn't mind having lots of kids :naughty: or donating their eggs for IVF.
 
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souggy said:
Wirelessly posted

So, you can understand why Deaf adults view babies that are not biologically theirs as one of their own? And feel like their culture is being taken away from future generations?

It doesn't affect me since I don't have the mindset to worry about tomorrow yet, and it won't affect a child who is immersed in the hearing world and doesn't struggle without a Deaf identity, but the validity of a "cultural genocide" is still there.
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Souggy, I usually like your thinking a lot. So maybe it's just the way I'm interpreting the wording and the juxtaposition with the movie's concepts, but I think it's a bit creepy to imagine that Deaf adults feel some claim to my child and have some say in what they see as a shared future. Deaf children do not belong to the Deaf Community. They belong with their families who love and care for them.

If you get the Aboriginal situation dramatized in Rabbit-Proof Fence, then I'd think you would see the damage in taking deaf children from their families (Hearing or Deaf) and home culture and enforcing some idealized "ethnicity" upon them.

Anyone who feels a right to say what I should or shouldn't do can start kicking in with the chores at home, greet Li at the bus in the afternoon, cook and pack her lunch each morning, piano on Thursdays, dentist on Friday, gymnastics on Saturdays, please watch her until 2, I've got a class for 4 hours. Dinner at 6, bath and a book at 7, we need new socks and a raincoat. Return the library books. Chip in for health insurance and start saving for college tuition, we'll need at least $180K by 2024, please. Remember special days, lots of love and care on a daily basis. Nail this and as part of our "family," I'll consider your input on how to raise my child and I might then understand this connection you feel.

Until then, the Deaf Community has as much claim to my child or a logical complaint about genocide or any impact on a shared futuew based on the decisions I make for my child as does any one of the 1.3 billion people living in China who share a real ethnicity with my daughter. But they were in line first, so you'll have a bit of a wait while we process those claims.
 
GrendelQ said:
Souggy, I usually like your thinking a lot. So maybe it's just the way I'm interpreting the wording and the juxtaposition with the movie's concepts, but I think it's a bit creepy to imagine that Deaf adults feel some claim to my child and have some say in what they see as a shared future. Deaf children do not belong to the Deaf Community. They belong with their families who love and care for them.

If you get the Aboriginal situation dramatized in Rabbit-Proof Fence, then I'd think you would see the damage in taking deaf children from their families (Hearing or Deaf) and home culture and enforcing some idealized "ethnicity" upon them.

Anyone who feels a right to say what I should or shouldn't do can start kicking in with the chores at home, greet Li at the bus in the afternoon, cook and pack her lunch each morning, piano on Thursdays, dentist on Friday, gymnastics on Saturdays, please watch her until 2, I've got a class for 4 hours. Dinner at 6, bath and a book at 7, we need new socks and a raincoat. Return the library books. Chip in for health insurance and start saving for college tuition, we'll need at least $180K by 2024, please. Remember special days, lots of love and care on a daily basis. Nail this and as part of our "family," I'll consider your input on how to raise my child and I might then understand this connection you feel.

Until then, the Deaf Community has as much claim to my child or a logical complaint about genocide or any impact on a shared futuew based on the decisions I make for my child as does any one of the 1.3 billion people living in China who share a real ethnicity with my daughter. But they were in line first, so you'll have a bit of a wait while we process those claims.
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:gpost::thumb:
 
Wirelessly posted

I figure as much, however the only problem with the China example is-- the mentality of lost culture usually belong to minorities who see their heritage disappearing around them before their very eyes. If the Deaf don't feel oppressed or ignored, I doubt these claims would had come forward.


I will be the first to admit, it is highly unlikely I am a genetic deaf considering there were several factors (high fever, ear infections, oxotoxic drugs, painkillers) when I was born, so it is more probable I would be a ignorant redneck with a Ford SUV and a hummer with a snowmobile hitched on the flatbed and an aluminum fishing boat sitting on the roof than being a self-taight Deaf individual. So if I wasn't deaf by series of chances, the Deaf community would never claim me when I was little, nor we will see things eye-to-eye.


Now that being said, I do think it's a good thing minority groups make these claims and feel entitled to them, otherwise many of their cultures, values, stories and experiences would disappear without anyone giving a damn, blissfully unware of their unintended actions and details never being recorded.
 
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GrendelQ said:
Souggy, I usually like your thinking a lot. So maybe it's just the way I'm interpreting the wording and the juxtaposition with the movie's concepts, but I think it's a bit creepy to imagine that Deaf adults feel some claim to my child and have some say in what they see as a shared future. Deaf children do not belong to the Deaf Community. They belong with their families who love and care for them.

If you get the Aboriginal situation dramatized in Rabbit-Proof Fence, then I'd think you would see the damage in taking deaf children from their families (Hearing or Deaf) and home culture and enforcing some idealized "ethnicity" upon them.

Anyone who feels a right to say what I should or shouldn't do can start kicking in with the chores at home, greet Li at the bus in the afternoon, cook and pack her lunch each morning, piano on Thursdays, dentist on Friday, gymnastics on Saturdays, please watch her until 2, I've got a class for 4 hours. Dinner at 6, bath and a book at 7, we need new socks and a raincoat. Return the library books. Chip in for health insurance and start saving for college tuition, we'll need at least $180K by 2024, please. Remember special days, lots of love and care on a daily basis. Nail this and as part of our "family," I'll consider your input on how to raise my child and I might then understand this connection you feel.

Until then, the Deaf Community has as much claim to my child or a logical complaint about genocide or any impact on a shared futuew based on the decisions I make for my child as does any one of the 1.3 billion people living in China who share a real ethnicity with my daughter. But they were in line first, so you'll have a bit of a wait while we process those claims.
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Bummer, I would have at least like to have gone for ice cream. :lol:
 
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