So...what you think about the health care bill?

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Shhhh, Jiro! They hate FDR and are out to destroy all his programs! :laugh2:

FDR was also considered a class traitor during his tenure.
 
darkdog said:
No it didn't. There's a reason they call it the Great Depression. Because it lasted so long. His meddling is what prolonged it.
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you sure about that? makes you wonder why he was elected for 3rd term :dunno:
 
Economists have different opinions about the handling of the Great Depression. Economists have different philosophies about how an economy should work. No one school of thought seems to have all of the answers. It almost seems like voodoo. I think that we can safely say that the Chicago School has been discredited with the current crisis.

The reason that FDR was reelected is because he helped the masses.
 
Jiro said:
you sure about that? makes you wonder why he was elected for 3rd term :dunno:
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In economics, you can never be 100% sure of anything, but from what I know, I'm pretty confident. Suppose I'm sick and a doctor promises to make it better. Nearly a decade goes by and I'm still feeling horrible. I don't recover until after I stop most of his treatment. It's highly likely that his treatment didn't help and probably made it worse. I don't need to know anything about medicine to conclude that.

As for why the electorate kept electing him... I dunno. For some reason, his brand of rhetoric appealed to a lot of people over tangible results.
 
darkdog said:
In economics, you can never be 100% sure of anything, but from what I know, I'm pretty confident. Suppose I'm sick and a doctor promises to make it better. Nearly a decade goes by and I'm still feeling horrible. I don't recover until after I stop most of his treatment. It's highly likely that his treatment didn't help and probably made it worse. I don't need to know anything about medicine to conclude that.

As for why the electorate kept electing him... I dunno. For some reason, his brand of rhetoric appealed to a lot of people over tangible results.
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I suppose we can agree to disagree :)
 
darkdog said:
In economics, you can never be 100% sure of anything, but from what I know, I'm pretty confident. Suppose I'm sick and a doctor promises to make it better. Nearly a decade goes by and I'm still feeling horrible. I don't recover until after I stop most of his treatment. It's highly likely that his treatment didn't help and probably made it worse. I don't need to know anything about medicine to conclude that.

As for why the electorate kept electing him... I dunno. For some reason, his brand of rhetoric appealed to a lot of people over tangible results.
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Probably because people just didn't have the required information to make an informed decision about what's was working and what was not. Another thing is that the idea of welfare appealled to a lot of people not knowing it's a trap that keeps on giving.
 
kokonut said:
Probably because people just didn't have the required information to make an informed decision about what's was working and what was not. Another thing is that the idea of welfare appeal to alot of people not knowing it's a trap that keeps on giving.
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love how you always have to add a negative spin to anything especially when you have nothing to back it up :lol:
 
sallylou said:
Economists have different opinions about the handling of the Great Depression. Economists have different philosophies about how an economy should work. No one school of thought seems to have all of the answers. It almost seems like voodoo. I think that we can safely say that the Chicago School has been discredited with the current crisis.
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Before we write off the Chicago school, let's look at an alternative universe where the government did not push for incentives to lower lending standards but everything else was the same and see how things turned out there.

sallylou said:
The reason that FDR was reelected is because he helped the masses.
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Or more precisely, because he had the perception of helping the masses. Here's a guy who was worried about the deflation of pork prices, so his solution? Kill millions of pigs. At a time when people were going hungry.

The reason you never hear about the depression of 1920? Because the government did pretty much nothing and it ended in 1921. And this thing was at least as deep as the Great Depression.
 
Agreed that the government programs lowered the lending standards but the mortgage companies were having a field day with liar loans. Lower standards and no regulation was a recipe for disaster.
 
sallylou said:
Agreed that the government programs lowered the lending standards but the mortgage companies were having a field day with liar loans. Lower standards and no regulation was a recipe for disaster.
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The liar loans for sure. It's profitable for lenders to give as many risky loans as possible when they know they can turn around and sell those loans to GSEs like Fannie or Freddy. They make a profit and the taxpayer bears the risk.
 
darkdog, you'll have to share your opinion on the Chicago School with me. I'm not seeing that it's viable. Then again, I know more about the mechanics of the financial world rather than the economic theories. It seems like the economists all contradict each other and can't agree on anything. Kind of like these treads. lol!
 
sallylou said:
darkdog, you'll have to share your opinion on the Chicago School with me. I'm not seeing that it's viable. Then again, I know more about the mechanics of the financial world rather than the economic theories. It seems like the economists all contradict each other and can't agree on anything. Kind of like these treads. lol!
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The gist of the Chicago school is support of free markets, which I certainly agree with. I'm not sure I agree with all of the little details of the Chicago school (and admittedly, I don't know them all). For instance, it's silly to assume that all economic actors are rational. They're not. However, I think it's safe to assume that individual actors in an economy are more rational than government for a myriad of reasons. We're paying for that government irrationality now just as we paid for it dearly in the 30s.

There's a reason it's called the dismal science. I'd argue that the social sciences really aren't sciences because they deal with systems of such complexity that you can never sufficiently recreate conditions to test hypotheses. That complexity drastically increases the need for unbiased rigor, but when you throw in political biases where people have a vested interest in studies turning out one way or another, then you have a subject that will probably never converge on one view. Nevertheless, there's a clear pattern that countries with the greatest economic freedom are the most prosperous and desirable places to live and no amount of economic theories can change that. Hence, my support for free markets.
 
Banjo said:
So, only the middle class and upper class are entitled to better healthcare simply because they have the money while the lower class aren't good enough.

HMO is a joke. Nobody can benefit from it.
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Name one govt insurance program for those who use it have had bypass heart surguries, hip replacements, or other serious surgeries or illnesses without costing them an arm and a leg, and without having to be put on a waiting list for such a long time.
 
People want to freak out if a government insurance program is mentioned. Try and imply that everyone will be on this program and taxpayer covering it. The gov ins program is estimated to end up costing more than regular private insurance companies premiums. The idea is to enter competition into equation.....therebyreducing cost. Insurance companies have had a hayday with no competition. also, the new health plan is changing regulations particulaly anti-trust regulation which insurance companies have been exempt from in the past. Anti-trust laws prevent price setting.
I swear it sounds like some people are actually sounding like 'lobbyist' for insurance companies here.....only for a political purpose.
Crazy. Why would you beon thier sides. They been milkin you dry with no competition.
 
I also don't know how this thread got turned into someone's bragging about thier acedemic prowess again.
 
Cowpuppy said:
I also don't know how this thread got turned into someone's bragging about thier acedemic prowess again.
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How is it bragging? I don't see anyone mentioning their credentials...

Someone asked what another person's major was, then someone else criticized that field of study.
 
We are nerds, though, huh?

sallylou-albums-misc-picture3830-nerd.gif
 
kokonut said:
Name one govt insurance program for those who use it have had bypass heart surguries, hip replacements, or other serious surgeries or illnesses without costing them an arm and a leg, and without having to be put on a waiting list for such a long time.
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Doesn't make it any better, no matter how you put it.
 
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