Self-Esteem vs low self-esteem

[Maria]

oh geez so many intersting points and I am busy today- but I'll be back ...
(maniacal laughter)

that reminds me- you didn't comment Cyber Red- how would you feel if Mother Theresa was excatly the same beautiful person but once in while went to the beach wearing skimpy bathing suit with thong??


Fuzzy

Well, you forgot one thing -- Mother Theresa is NOT my mother. That's different. People will probably protest with their signs on the streets about her "dress code".

My mother is not famous or popular like she was, so people don't know who my mother was. People KNOW who the Mother Theresa was.

 

[Maria]

So, if you don't dress modestly, You'll have a black soul? I find that very strange because we all are sinners, and does that mean everyone has black souls?

No, honey.. that's different. My mother never asked God for forgiveness that she had sins. There was no moral in her. Nada.

Just because some people out there that dress sexy and think they are beautiful when they do, I'm not saying I agree with that dress code, But, does that give us a right to judge them just how they judge us for our sins?

Judge ? How ? My eyes can see to look at but, didn't say anythin' about it. It would make me feel humiliate, because I don't wear somethin' like this. I know better than that. It's ok to wear "modest" or "decent" clothes.

Does that mean those 'special' people are the ones that allow to judge just because they experience God? I don't agree with that, Jesus is allow to judge us for whatever sins we committed, and Jesus is to judge us if we dress improperly.

I didn't say the word "special". I know that ( about Jesus judge people for their sins ). I am not talkin' about judgin'. I am talkin' about how my mother affected me. Talkin' about maturity and morality spiritually.

Ofcourse that's my opinion here, feel free to disagree.

Sure, no problem.

 

[Roadrunner]

*off-topic*

There's several ways to look at how or the implications of how to dress or wear clothes--

One way is: 'what is proper or appropriate', hence, you wouldn't see someone go to a dinner event or to places and wearing a swimming suit...of course, that's obvious, yet, dressing in a manner that best fits the appropriate 'theme' of attending functions/places-- Certain work places requires their employees a mandate of what is acceptable and what isn't. This is something the 'world' or a majority could construe what and how to wear apparel.

Another way is a Godly way: What certain things the Bible recommends and can teache us how we should or ought to dress accordingly...with 'one' idea that certain apparel won't be enticing or causing others to 'lust' after. I am aware of a certain Church and their members whom I will not name here--The women wear dresses and are forbidden to wear slacks/pants/jeans, cannot wear make-up, cut their hair or wear jewelry with the exception of the wedding band/rings...these ladies follow a certain commandment that is set forth in the 'Old' Testament....in my opinion and perspective, we now live these days that are set forth and live according to 'New' Testament's commandments. Although, what they do believe, I have no arguement or case against them, only respecting whatsoever they do believe and live by. In a sense, another such group only wears one kind of clothing and do not adapt to the modern technology such as electricity, vehicles, etc., again, I will not name such group here, bottom line is that to each their own, however they see and know what to believe how God desires....

Lastly: Suppose a man dressed in rags, showing much filth and enter a church for a place to worship, etc., and the ushers (persons who lead those attending, to a spot to sit) put this man in the back of the church, out of sight, etc., then it's possible and likely the man is being looked upon with the 'outer' appearance rather than what's inside, inside the heart and soul. Here, no matter how a person dresses, ragged and poor, they are blessed by a God who understands and is a God who is no respecter of persons, not respecting those above others and vice-versa. Bearing this in mind, the ganstas, the wannabes, etc., those who want to look obviously cool, etc., their intent may be wrong, but that shouldn't stop any of us to 'love' them as God would whether or not they belong to a church, don't believe in God, etc., and lastly, not to pass judgement upon them whatsoever.

 

[jazzy]

Yes, God wants His people to dress modestly. That means, not wearing clothes that are too tight, too short, showing too much skin, nasty sayings on T-shirts, or emphasizing sexuality. It also means not wearing clothes that "show off" wealth (bling-bling). It also means that women should dress like women, and men should dress like men, appropriate to their culture and activities.

Those are your own personal words, it has nothing to do with God. I do not see any words in the bible say anything about nasty sayings on T-shirt or wear bathing suit. Don't bring us back to old way which men get to beat women up for not wearing proper clothes.

God created naked people, it is us who are shame of our bodies. Many tribes walk around in naked without shame of their own bodies.

 

[Maria]

*off-topic*

There's several ways to look at how or the implications of how to dress or wear clothes--

One way is: 'what is proper or appropriate', hence, you wouldn't see someone go to a dinner event or to places and wearing a swimming suit...of course, that's obvious, yet, dressing in a manner that best fits the appropriate 'theme' of attending functions/places-- Certain work places requires their employees a mandate of what is acceptable and what isn't. This is something the 'world' or a majority could construe what and how to wear apparel.

Another way is a Godly way: What certain things the Bible recommends and can teache us how we should or ought to dress accordingly...with 'one' idea that certain apparel won't be enticing or causing others to 'lust' after. I am aware of a certain Church and their members whom I will not name here--The women wear dresses and are forbidden to wear slacks/pants/jeans, cannot wear make-up, cut their hair or wear jewelry with the exception of the wedding band/rings...these ladies follow a certain commandment that is set forth in the 'Old' Testament....in my opinion and perspective, we now live these days that are set forth and live according to 'New' Testament's commandments. Although, what they do believe, I have no arguement or case against them, only respecting whatsoever they do believe and live by. In a sense, another such group only wears one kind of clothing and do not adapt to the modern technology such as electricity, vehicles, etc., again, I will not name such group here, bottom line is that to each their own, however they see and know what to believe how God desires....

Lastly: Suppose a man dressed in rags, showing much filth and enter a church for a place to worship, etc., and the ushers (persons who lead those attending, to a spot to sit) put this man in the back of the church, out of sight, etc., then it's possible and likely the man is being looked upon with the 'outer' appearance rather than what's inside, inside the heart and soul. Here, no matter how a person dresses, ragged and poor, they are blessed by a God who understands and is a God who is no respecter of persons, not respecting those above others and vice-versa. Bearing this in mind, the ganstas, the wannabes, etc., those who want to look obviously cool, etc., their intent may be wrong, but that shouldn't stop any of us to 'love' them as God would whether or not they belong to a church, don't believe in God, etc., and lastly, not to pass judgement upon them whatsoever.

THAT'S your opinion and perspective. I like to see my mother to wear some decent/modest clothes that will make me to feel comfortable, because she is my mom. I don't like to feel embarrassin' or humiliatin'. Speakin' of other people - that's different. The bondin' in between people and my mom is different. I would say "Mom ! Please, don't wear that. That will embarrass me." I am sure my mom would tell me the same thing, IF she ever sees what indecent clothin' I wear, because I am her daughter. You see - that's what I am talkin' about.
I can understand some of you have different POV/opinion - and for that, I respect and would not discuss any further.

 

[Audiofuzzy]

I preffer to dress accordingly to my age, but I feel I would be the same person inside if I put a thong on (yikes!)

Don't put too much importance to the dressing code as it is clouding your judgment - you don't see what's important and what not anymore once you get fixated on what to wear and what not.

Besides, what's modest and what's not differs from culture to culture.
In Africa and South America there are tribes that go naked, and these people are normal people no different than you or me or Reba or Mother Theresa despite them walking around naked.

Then there are Muslim women covered from top to bottom, (horrible for me) but anything less is considerd sin and immmodest... try to convince them it's ok to show your hair.

Then there is a question if you have right CR to expect your mother to dress how YOU seem appropriate. Isn't it forcing her to do as you wish, based on YOUR beliefs and YOUR opinions? What she wants, what she feels - doesn't matter? Maybe what is extreme for you is not to me??

I am not saying how we dress is completely insignificant- it does matter, but this should not be made into something of a global importance.

Of course, on the other hand, I recall seeying some Maury Povich show about mothers who dress very inappropriately and in revealing way, and their children are embarrased by the way their mothers are dressed and indeed these mothers went too far,
but even then they did it because they were seriously confused in the head and most of them just didn't had enough self esteem to believe they can be attractive without practically exposing themselves.
And after being explained what their way of dressing is doing to their children, they saw how it was affecting them and they were sorry.
So you see they didn't had "black soul", they were just unaware of the impact they were creating - for themselves, and more importantly for their children.. they weren't bad persons, just misguided.
The problem is, they needed someone else to show it to them - someone like Maury and staff psychologists to make them see. Their children just couldn't do it- they didn't knew how.



And about your having and unexpected abortion- how sad... Were you far in your pregnacy when that happened? was that recently?

Fuzzy

 

[Maria]

I preffer to dress accordingly to my age, but I feel I would be the same person inside if I put a thong on (yikes!)

Ah - you are a female. Alwitey. Thanks for givin' me a hint.

Don't put too much importance to the dressing code as it is clouding your judgment - you don't see what's important and what not anymore once you get fixated on what to wear and what not.

Besides, what's modest and what's not differs from culture to culture.
In Africa and South America there are tribes that go naked, and these people are normal people no different than you or me or Reba or Mother Theresa despite them walking around naked.


Then there are Muslim women covered from top to bottom, (horrible for me) but anything less is considerd sin and immmodest... try to convince them it's ok to show your hair.

Then there is a question if you have right CR to expect your mother to dress how YOU seem appropriate. Isn't it forcing her to do as you wish, based on YOUR beliefs and YOUR opinions? What she wants, what she feels - doesn't matter? Maybe what is extreme for you is not to me??

No, it is not forcin' her to do as "I" wish. It's about "approachin'". How do I approach my own mother if, she wears indecent clothes ? How ? I would feel - Gee how do I explain ? lol ( Thanks goodness, she don't wear like this anymore since she is 63 now. How relief ! )

I am not saying how we dress is completely insignificant- it does matter, but this should not be made into something of a global importance.

Of course, on the other hand, I recall seeying some Maury Povich show about mothers who dress very inappropriately and in revealing way, and their children are embarrased by the way their mothers are dressed and indeed these mothers went too far,
but even then they did it because they were seriously confused in the head and most of them just didn't had enough self esteem to believe they can be attractive without practically exposing themselves.
And after being explained what their way of dressing is doing to their children, they saw how it was affecting them and they were sorry.
So you see they didn't had "black soul", they were just unaware of the impact they were creating - for themselves, and more importantly for their children.. they weren't bad persons, just misguided.
The problem is, they needed someone else to show it to them - someone like Maury and staff psychologists to make them see. Their children just couldn't do it- they didn't knew how.

Speakin' of "black soul" - I think it's hard for some of you grasp this part, it's why some of you have hard time believin' me. But, that's ok.

And about your having and unexpected abortion- how sad... Were you far in your pregnacy when that happened? was that recently?

Gestation : 13 weeks pregnant when I was 17.

Shh .. I didn't want someone to tell me to quit goin' off topic, otherwise someone will complaint. lol But, thanks for discussin'/debatin' anyways. You all have a good day.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Wow, interesting thread here.

Don't worry about "off topic" but some of your posts are relate to self-esteem about how you feel good what you like to wear...

Forgive me please for neglect my thread here since I’m busy at weekends. Here is my answer.

Fuzzy, I like you & your open-mind posts. You are like me who say direct what we think! I like to hear anyone like you who tell me straight what you think… Yes, you & I have same thought after read CR’s post over her mother’s self-esteem.

Here is my answer, CyberRed:

You said that Self-esteem is very dangerous, not true. I re-read your posts and let me suggest you something what I think about your step-dad and mother. Some of your posts confused me bit over “black soul”. Please correct if I’m mistake or what.

At first you said that your mother take care of her look and clothes and feel happy to wear what she really like, like dancing, etc. = good and healthy esteem and then second you described her as low self-esteem over “black soul” what you saw in her. – It sound that your mother has a mental health (hate herself, emotional/psychological scars, self-doubt scars and very low self-esteem)… It means that your mother suffer her loveless marriage life with your step-dad, that’s why she had to get out of marriage life to start a new life to improve her self-esteem.

You said that you saw black soul in her that’s time she was still married to your step-dad. Correct?
After divorce, she turns into a different person and feel free and happy and can choose what she wear & kind of life what she wants to have. Correct?

If yes, it means is she is a romantic person and want to feel being good and attractive for your step-dad but she was being neglect by your step-dad’s love and attention. It’s normal that your mother want to go dance with him – have romantic dining with him… being alone with him, Romantic weekends, need to hear “loving word” from him… Your step-dad see her as “housewife” and “mother”, not lover. No wonder she suffered low self-esteem and want to get out of 20 years miserable and loveless marriage and start a new life to improve her self-esteem. .

I think it’s unfair of step-dad to influence your sibling what you saw black soul in your mother etc. As what you described “black soul” sounds that you see Satan in her because she never talks about Jesus and God… Correct? Nobody expect anyone to talk about Jesus and God all the time since they have their own life, they take care of. God and Jesus are in every people’s heart, it doesn’t mean that we must talk about Jesus and God all the time.

I would suggest you to take your mother’s side to have your view to compare with your step-dad. You need to have BOTH sides to listen then you will understand.

 

[Reba]

Those are your own personal words, it has nothing to do with God. I do not see any words in the bible say anything about nasty sayings on T-shirt or wear bathing suit.

I guess you have a legalistic viewpoint. Do you require the Bible list every detail for you to understand? I was applying the general principle of modesty to specific modern examples to clarify the definition. Do you really believe that God would be pleased to see Christian guys wearing T-shirts that proclaim "Suck me baby!"? Or that God is pleased to see Christian women advertising their goods at the beach? Or God is pleased when a Christian woman sits down and her short skirt and spread legs prove that she doesn't wear panties? Get real!

Don't bring us back to old way which men get to beat women up for not wearing proper clothes.

What on earth are you talking about? That is NOT at all what I suggested.

Many tribes walk around in naked without shame of their own bodies.

That is their culture. Christian "tribes" don't do that.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Ok, for example : What would you say if your mother wear a bathin' suit that reveals her bare hips at the age of 50 ? How about showin' her butt when wearin' a thong ? Hmm ?

I see nothing wrong if she is proud of her body? She only wore bathing suit for beach or swimming pool, not in resturant or work...

I saw a lot of people like your mother who wear like this - they are slim, thin or fat... I see nothing wrong if they like to wear to make them feel young and attractive. They doesn't worry about their figure because they feel good and happy with their bodies...

How do you feel about your body? Are you happy with it? It's shame that you hide your body when you want to wear bathing suit for go to swimming...

It doesn't meant that I HAVE to wear old fashioned clothes because I'm 43 years old. I like to wear to make me feel young... I see nothing wrong with that. Do you mean that you HAVE to wear old fashioned clothes because you are 45 or 50 years old?

I feel proud of my mother to wear nice and fashioned clothes and attractive... and good esteem... She loves to have different hairstyles... I have a newspaper photo of her with her hair style... She won at hair style... She was a beautiful woman and has good esteem... She noticed that she has low esteem and so has to get out of her unhappy marriage with my Dad and remarried... Everything goes worst after she re-married to 2nd man... He got her very very very low esteem... jealous and monster etc... (long story)... After he arrest for bank robbery - jail for 10 years that's time I was 11 years old. Divorce again... Her alocholic addiction kill her good self-esteem - everything including her look...

You can image how my siblings and I feel when our mother danced to public and song drunkly - sleep at street because she love it.... Everyone stared her and know her.... Terrible, you can image... That's why I can't understand why you feel embarrassment what your mother wear... It's huge difference between your and my mother...

I still have a photo of my mother in newspaper - won at hair style... She was a beautiful woman... Alocholic destory her look... I feel sad and have a good memory about her as wonderful mother until I became teenager............

 

[Reba]

...Besides, what's modest and what's not differs from culture to culture.

In Africa and South America there are tribes that go naked, and these people are normal people no different than you or me or Reba or Mother Theresa despite them walking around naked.

Then there are Muslim women covered from top to bottom, (horrible for me) but anything less is considerd sin and immmodest... try to convince them it's ok to show your hair.

I believe CR was referring to God's standard of modesty in His Bible. That does not include regional tribal standards or Muslim standards.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Those are your own personal words, it has nothing to do with God. I do not see any words in the bible say anything about nasty sayings on T-shirt or wear bathing suit. Don't bring us back to old way which men get to beat women up for not wearing proper clothes.

God created naked people, it is us who are shame of our bodies. Many tribes walk around in naked without shame of their own bodies.

It's people who choose to wear, not God... It's God who create naked couple Adam and Eve... After eat fruit from God's special tree, then they become hide their body and choose to wear... not God.



***I have to go home now and will be back for more posts tonight***

 

[Reba]

I see nothing wrong if she is proud of her body? She only wore bathing suit for beach or swimming pool, not in resturant or work...

I saw a lot of people like your mother who wear like this - they are slim, thin or fat... I see nothing wrong if they like to wear to make them feel young and attractive. They doesn't worry about their figure because they feel good and happy with their bodies...

Modesty has nothing to do with slim/fat, young/old, beautiful/ugly. Modesty applies to everyone. Even when I was young and my body was perfect for a bikini, I would not wear one. I wore bathing suits with "shorts" style bottoms or "skirts". The tops were not low-cut, and they covered all the torso. (Still wear that style.) When I am not swimming, just walking around at the beach, I wear a big "t-shirt" cover-up over my bathing suit.

I feel "good and happy" with my body. But my body is for me and Hubby only!

It doesn't meant that I HAVE to wear old fashioned clothes because I'm 43 years old. I like to wear to make me feel young... I see nothing wrong with that. Do you mean that you HAVE to wear old fashioned clothes because you are 45 or 50 years old?

Modesty has nothing to do with age. Modesty doesn't mean "old fashioned". Modesty doesn't mean "frumpy". Modesty can be stylish and flattering. Modesty is for teens and grannies. There is no reason that any female, any age or shape, has to look like a street hooker.

I work at a college so I see all the latest styles on young people. I have seen many unmodest young people wear clothes that are ugly, unflattering, ill-fitting, and out-of-style. Unmodest people are not automatically good looking or stylish!

 

[Reba]

It's people who choose to wear, not God... It's God who create naked couple Adam and Eve... After eat fruit from God's special tree, then they become hide their body and choose to wear... not God.

Actually, God did kill an animal and gave the skins to Adam and Eve to wear.

Genesis 3:21 "Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them."

 

[Reba]

... how would you feel if Mother Theresa was excatly the same beautiful person but once in while went to the beach wearing skimpy bathing suit with thong??

That would be totally out of character for her. That is the point. I don't think Mother Theresa had a desire to go to the beach in a thong suit. Her character (deep inside) wanted to help other people. Her character did NOT want to get attention for herself. I think if she really wanted to go for a swim somewhere, she would have worn a very modest outfit. I don't think she would feel comfortable in skimpy clothing.

 

[Reba]

So, if you don't dress modestly, You'll have a black soul?

No.

It is possible that someone with a "black" soul wants to dress immodestly. That style of clothing pleases a dark soul.

It does NOT mean that everyone who dresses immodestly has a "black" soul or demon inside. Sometimes it means that a person is ignorant about immodesty or feels peer pressure to dress that way.

The general principle:

Christians want to dress (speak, behave) the way that pleases Jesus.

Non-Christians don't care how they dress (speak, behave) because they don't care how Jesus feels.

 

[Angel]

It is possible that someone with a "black" soul wants to dress immodestly. That style of clothing pleases a dark soul.

Oh pleasee....If I want to wear two pieces swimming suit, then I can if I want to, that doesn't mean I have a dark ( black ) soul....And I also like to wear short skirt is because long skirt makes me feel uncomfortable just like some people don't like to wear dress but pants because they feel comfortable in them, but that doesn't mean I am trying to show off my body, or draw attention from others, it just the way I like to dress or the type of clothes that are more fashionable...


Psst RR, Beautiful post, Well said hon!

 

[Angel]

It's people who choose to wear, not God...

Actually Reba is right, it's in the bible, I haven't reach that far in my bible, so I didn't know....

Here is what it says

Timothy 2:9

"And I want women to be modest in their appearance. They should wear decent and appropriate clothing and not draw attention to themselves by the way they fix their hair or by wearing gold or pearl or expensive clothes "

 

[Maria]

Whoa, whoa - wait a minute ! Hold on....
I don't think some of you understand me. That BLACK soul reveals that there's NO Christ in my mother's heart. Nothin'. It was her SINS without askin' for forgiveness. There's NO light in her where Christ should live in. She didn't ask Him to come in HER heart.

I will interpret a little bit here : The body is your "lamp post" and the light inside your body is Christ inside your body. By how ? By readin' and pray everyday right ? And, also ask for forgivin' daily because of "seepin'"sins will enter your body ( temptations or it can be your thoughts to think of somethin' that will NOT please God )

Without Christ, the light in lamp post will be turnin' off - NO light. What do you see in it ? Dark, right ? Ok - same idea with my mother. Her soul was dark inside her WITHOUT the light ( Christ ) IN her. She choses this world, not God/Christ. My stepfather was prayin' for her and me and other siblin' for years. None of them haven't found Christ, except ME. I found Him.

 

[Maria]

Actually Reba is right, it's in the bible, I haven't reach that far in my bible, so I didn't know....

Here is what it says

Timothy 2:9

"And I want women to be modest in their appearance. They should wear decent and appropriate clothing and not draw attention to themselves by the way they fix their hair or by wearing gold or pearl or expensive clothes "

That's what I told you earlier when you asked ME to show you where it said in the bible, so I shown you the scripture earlier. Now you understand ?