Psychology of Parents on CI

When our daughter was just diagnosed and even with her S&L therapist after she was implanted, signs were used but our daughter refused to acknowledge and/or respond to them and always sought to converse orally
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rick48, then how come this is the first time you've mentioned doing that?
Your daughter IS oral...You chose to pursue a full toolbox, and SHE decided that she wanted to be oral. That is AWESOME and the way that ALL hearing parents should start out with their kids.
Maybe the reason she is so well adjusted is b/c you started out with a full toolbox and let her decide which way she wanted to communicate.
You don't understand however that most hearing parents are told to hyperfocus on speech, speech and more speech.
 
deafdyke said:
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rick48, then how come this is the first time you've mentioned doing that?
Your daughter IS oral...You chose to pursue a full toolbox, and SHE decided that she wanted to be oral. That is AWESOME and the way that ALL hearing parents should start out with their kids.
Maybe the reason she is so well adjusted is b/c you started out with a full toolbox and let her decide which way she wanted to communicate.
You don't understand however that most hearing parents are told to hyperfocus on speech, speech and more speech.
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He has shared that information before. That's why I never got on his case about ASL because I knew he had tried. :)
 
Wow, it's encouraging that such a string of hearing parents of deaf children have come forward stating that they DON'T see ASL and CIs as being in any way in conflict, and most of the parents who have spoken up have been positive about the value of ASL, and have made an effort to bring ASL into their children's everyday lives. FJ has described many gatherings of kids with CIs in which families -- even the hardcore AVT-ers out there -- easily alternated between sign and speech. I've found that all of our 'hearing professionals' involved with the CI sign with ease throughout their interaction with my daughter, I've attended CI conferences in which ASL interpreters and CART systems were plentiful and welcomed by all, fostering communication across all modes, and by doing so, indirectly emphasizing the value of these diverse methods of communication. And Rick has surprised a few people by discussing his family's efforts and early use of ASL with their child. I've never gotten the message from Rick that he felt my bi-bi path with Li-Li was any less valuable or appropriate than any other path.

I'm sorry that Jillio represents some lingering contingent of hearing parent who sees CIs and ASL as being at odds, making a statement with which I disagree: "Which confirms the fact that while CI and ASL don't have to be mutually exclusive, most often, in real life situations, they are." I think she may be mistakenly convinced that most hearing parents here on AD and elsewhere (apart from herself) are against ASL. But I've seen a very welcoming approach to ASL in some of the places you might least expect it. And I hope parents venturing onto this forum to see what's working in real life situations don't get the impression from one adamant individual that CIs and ASL can't go and in hand. I think the key is to make ASL as accessible as possible to families, so young deaf children don't have to struggle so hard to develop ASL because of limited exposure to ASL in their homes.

The large population of hearing families using ASL to varying degrees with their kids who have CIs (realizing full well that these children who might hear and speak beautifully with the aid of their CIs still remain deaf, and require a means of communicating not only when that processor is doing its thing, but in every encounter, day or night, ideal listening environment or not), is such a powerful testament to how much we value all kinds of communication, and how -- regardless of whatever communication philosophy we parents might have initially brought into the job of raising a child -- we watch and listen and shift according to our child's needs and abilities to find what works for that individual.
 
GrendelQ said:
Wow, it's encouraging that such a string of hearing parents of deaf children have come forward stating that they DON'T see ASL and CIs as being in any way in conflict, and most of the parents who have spoken up have been positive about the value of ASL, and have made an effort to bring ASL into their children's everyday lives. FJ has described many gatherings of kids with CIs in which families -- even the hardcore AVT-ers out there -- easily alternated between sign and speech. I've found that all of our 'hearing professionals' involved with the CI sign with ease throughout their interaction with my daughter, I've attended CI conferences in which ASL interpreters and CART systems were plentiful and welcomed by all, fostering communication across all modes, and by doing so, indirectly emphasizing the value of these diverse methods of communication. And Rick has surprised a few people by discussing his family's efforts and early use of ASL with their child. I've never gotten the message from Rick that he felt my bi-bi path with Li-Li was any less valuable or appropriate than any other path.

I'm sorry that Jillio represents some lingering contingent of hearing parent who sees CIs and ASL as being at odds, making a statement with which I disagree: "Which confirms the fact that while CI and ASL don't have to be mutually exclusive, most often, in real life situations, they are." But I think she may be mistakenly convinced that most hearing parents here on AD and elsewhere (apart from herself) are against ASL. But I've seen a very welcoming approach to ASL in some of the places you might least expect it. And I hope parents venturing onto this forum to see what's working in real life situations don't get the impression from one adamant individual that CIs and ASL can't go and in hand. I think the key is to make ASL as accessible as possible to families, so young deaf children don't have to struggle so hard to develop ASL because of limited exposure to ASL in their homes.

The large population of hearing families using ASL to varying degrees with their kids who have CIs (realizing full well that these children who might hear and speak beautifully with the aid of their CIs still remain deaf, and require a means of communicating not only when that processor is doing its thing, but in every encounter, day or night, ideal listening environment or not), is such a powerful testament to how much we value all kinds of communication, and how -- regardless of whatever communication philosophy we parents might have initially brought into the job of raising a child -- we watch and listen and shift according to our child's needs and abilities to find what works for that individual.
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Jillio and Rick have a history. I dont like bringing up who said what but there were nasty comments about ASL made by some of these parents years ago. Even one of them said he would never let a deaf teacher teach his daughter because he doesnt want her to have a bad speech model. It was bad...very bad. That was back in 2006.
 
jillio said:
Oh, so you view this as a contest rather than as a quest to provide the most beneficial services to the deaf child. No wonder you get so defensive. It is an "I win or I lose" situation you think you are dealing with. Put your focus on the child, and your perspective will change.
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Why this constant need to attack FJ and others? You asked a question (which you then answered on Rick's behalf, incorrectly as it turns out):
jillio said:
Did you include ASL in your daughter's life when she was a child? Have you and your family members used it as a communication mode?

Nope. Mutually exclusive in your case, and in the vast majority of cases where hearing parents are concerned. Just because it doesn't have to been doesn't mean it isn't.:cool2:
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FJ answered yes, and both Rick and I have done what you described (challenged, rather). You are the only person on this thread who has spoken out against using ASL with CIs. Is your motivation just to stir up some baseless outrage that hearing parents of deaf children (except you, of course) are anti-ASL and on the attack, when in fact there are so many reaching out to find ways of bringing ASL into their lives, despite limited resources? I just can't see any reason why you, given your self-professed role as an ASL advocate, wouldn't be cheerleading the idea of CIs + ASL, rather than claiming it's some type of myth. If you really do have such a mean objective -- simply to foster and inflame an US vs. THEM war -- that's just really warped.
 
Are you sure rick has mentioned that he used ASL but his daughter was non responsive to it before?
I do not remember him ever mentioning it before.
Again, b/c he did that his daughter IS oral. THAT is how dhh kids should be raised. They need the CHOICE early on. Every dhh kid should have the right to be exposed to Deaf culture and ASL to see if it might be helpful for them.
He didn't fall for the " oh your child needs to be heathy and normal" crap that AG Bell subconsciously pushes.
I think too, he does't realize that we're not being anti oral. Virtually all of us are pro oral skills. We just object to the pushing of oral only as a "your child doesn't need "speshal needs" stuff. It really does place a stigma on "speshal needs stuff" A kid could have OK verbal skills, but add sign and they could express themselves on a Harvard/gifted level!
 
deafdyke said:
Are you sure rick has mentioned that he used ASL but his daughter was non responsive to it before?
I do not remember him ever mentioning it before.
Again, b/c he did that his daughter IS oral. THAT is how dhh kids should be raised. They need the CHOICE early on. Every dhh kid should have the right to be exposed to Deaf culture and ASL to see if it might be helpful for them.
He didn't fall for the " oh your child needs to be heathy and normal" crap that AG Bell subconsciously pushes.
I think too, he does't realize that we're not being anti oral. Virtually all of us are pro oral skills. We just object to the pushing of oral only as a "your child doesn't need "speshal needs" stuff. It really does place a stigma on "speshal needs stuff" A kid could have OK verbal skills, but add sign and they could express themselves on a Harvard/gifted level!
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Yes. Look back to his posts about a year ago or so.
 
GrendelQ said:
Why this constant need to attack FJ and others? You asked a question (which you then answered on Rick's behalf, incorrectly as it turns out):


FJ answered yes, and both Rick and I have done what you described (challenged, rather). You are the only person on this thread who has spoken out against using ASL with CIs. Is your motivation just to stir up some baseless outrage that hearing parents of deaf children (except you, of course) are anti-ASL and on the attack, when in fact there are so many reaching out to find ways of bringing ASL into their lives, despite limited resources? I just can't see any reason why you, given your self-professed role as an ASL advocate, wouldn't be cheerleading the idea of CIs + ASL, rather than claiming it's some type of myth. If you really do have such a mean objective -- simply to foster and inflame an US vs. THEM war -- that's just really warped.
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Please show me where I have ever advocated or spoken out against using ASL with a CI. I do believe you are relying on your misinterpretation, rather than referring to anything I have ever said in regard to using ASL with a CI. In fact, you can find many, many examples of my advocating the use of ASL with a CI, and many more examples of my statement that my only problem with the CI was the fact that it was too often used as an excuse to use an oral only philosophy.
 
GrendelQ said:
Wow, it's encouraging that such a string of hearing parents of deaf children have come forward stating that they DON'T see ASL and CIs as being in any way in conflict, and most of the parents who have spoken up have been positive about the value of ASL, and have made an effort to bring ASL into their children's everyday lives. FJ has described many gatherings of kids with CIs in which families -- even the hardcore AVT-ers out there -- easily alternated between sign and speech. I've found that all of our 'hearing professionals' involved with the CI sign with ease throughout their interaction with my daughter, I've attended CI conferences in which ASL interpreters and CART systems were plentiful and welcomed by all, fostering communication across all modes, and by doing so, indirectly emphasizing the value of these diverse methods of communication. And Rick has surprised a few people by discussing his family's efforts and early use of ASL with their child. I've never gotten the message from Rick that he felt my bi-bi path with Li-Li was any less valuable or appropriate than any other path.

I'm sorry that Jillio represents some lingering contingent of hearing parent who sees CIs and ASL as being at odds, making a statement with which I disagree: "Which confirms the fact that while CI and ASL don't have to be mutually exclusive, most often, in real life situations, they are." I think she may be mistakenly convinced that most hearing parents here on AD and elsewhere (apart from herself) are against ASL. But I've seen a very welcoming approach to ASL in some of the places you might least expect it. And I hope parents venturing onto this forum to see what's working in real life situations don't get the impression from one adamant individual that CIs and ASL can't go and in hand. I think the key is to make ASL as accessible as possible to families, so young deaf children don't have to struggle so hard to develop ASL because of limited exposure to ASL in their homes.

The large population of hearing families using ASL to varying degrees with their kids who have CIs (realizing full well that these children who might hear and speak beautifully with the aid of their CIs still remain deaf, and require a means of communicating not only when that processor is doing its thing, but in every encounter, day or night, ideal listening environment or not), is such a powerful testament to how much we value all kinds of communication, and how -- regardless of whatever communication philosophy we parents might have initially brought into the job of raising a child -- we watch and listen and shift according to our child's needs and abilities to find what works for that individual.
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Jillio sees nothing of the kind, and you truly need to put your bias aside and see what Jillio truly stands for before making such comments. You are completely and utterly mistaken regarding what I have always advocated for, and what I continue to advocate for. As a consequence, allowing your bias to get in the way of understanding that is leaving you in the position of misinerpretation and misjudgement. Again, discover what Jillio truly advocates for prior to making any more ad hominem attacks.

Regarding whether or not in real life, the vast majority of hearing parents with children who have been implanted with CI using an oral only approach is fact. Please check your statistics before pronouncing something I have stated is incorrect. Even those who begin with sign; the vast majority drop it at some point following implantation. This is a simple and documented fact of reality. What people say and what people do are often conflicting. What they do is more important to outcomes than what they say.
 
jillio said:
Please show me where I have ever advocated or spoken out against using ASL with a CI. I do believe you are relying on your misinterpretation, rather than referring to anything I have ever said in regard to using ASL with a CI. In fact, you can find many, many examples of my advocating the use of ASL with a CI, and many more examples of my statement that my only problem with the CI was the fact that it was too often used as an excuse to use an oral only philosophy.
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One poster seemed to think that I should be pro SEE because I'm a CI or even better for oral only in the SEE thread. :roll:
 
deafdyke said:
Are you sure rick has mentioned that he used ASL but his daughter was non responsive to it before?
I do not remember him ever mentioning it before.
Again, b/c he did that his daughter IS oral. THAT is how dhh kids should be raised. They need the CHOICE early on. Every dhh kid should have the right to be exposed to Deaf culture and ASL to see if it might be helpful for them.
He didn't fall for the " oh your child needs to be heathy and normal" crap that AG Bell subconsciously pushes.
I think too, he does't realize that we're not being anti oral. Virtually all of us are pro oral skills. We just object to the pushing of oral only as a "your child doesn't need "speshal needs" stuff. It really does place a stigma on "speshal needs stuff" A kid could have OK verbal skills, but add sign and they could express themselves on a Harvard/gifted level!
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I remember him stating that he recommended his daughter take an ASL course when she was in college. Other than that, he has always been an advocate for the oral only approach.
 
deafskeptic said:
One poster seemed to think that I should be pro SEE because I'm a CI or even better for oral only in the SEE thread. :roll:
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Exactly. It seems to me that there are some who are making some incorrect assumptions based on their own bias. Obviously, Grendel is unaware of what I advocate for, as she is reading my posts with that blinding bias, or is listening to what someone else is telling her rather than discovering it for herself. I find it odd, indeed, that she agrees with Shel, but then always disagrees with me...since Shel and I have the very same philosophy.:lol:
 
GrendelQ said:
Wow, it's encouraging that such a string of hearing parents of deaf children have come forward stating that they DON'T see ASL and CIs as being in any way in conflict, and most of the parents who have spoken up have been positive about the value of ASL, and have made an effort to bring ASL into their children's everyday lives. FJ has described many gatherings of kids with CIs in which families -- even the hardcore AVT-ers out there -- easily alternated between sign and speech. I've found that all of our 'hearing professionals' involved with the CI sign with ease throughout their interaction with my daughter, I've attended CI conferences in which ASL interpreters and CART systems were plentiful and welcomed by all, fostering communication across all modes, and by doing so, indirectly emphasizing the value of these diverse methods of communication. And Rick has surprised a few people by discussing his family's efforts and early use of ASL with their child. I've never gotten the message from Rick that he felt my bi-bi path with Li-Li was any less valuable or appropriate than any other path.

I'm sorry that Jillio represents some lingering contingent of hearing parent who sees CIs and ASL as being at odds, making a statement with which I disagree: "Which confirms the fact that while CI and ASL don't have to be mutually exclusive, most often, in real life situations, they are." I think she may be mistakenly convinced that most hearing parents here on AD and elsewhere (apart from herself) are against ASL. But I've seen a very welcoming approach to ASL in some of the places you might least expect it. And I hope parents venturing onto this forum to see what's working in real life situations don't get the impression from one adamant individual that CIs and ASL can't go and in hand. I think the key is to make ASL as accessible as possible to families, so young deaf children don't have to struggle so hard to develop ASL because of limited exposure to ASL in their homes.

The large population of hearing families using ASL to varying degrees with their kids who have CIs (realizing full well that these children who might hear and speak beautifully with the aid of their CIs still remain deaf, and require a means of communicating not only when that processor is doing its thing, but in every encounter, day or night, ideal listening environment or not), is such a powerful testament to how much we value all kinds of communication, and how -- regardless of whatever communication philosophy we parents might have initially brought into the job of raising a child -- we watch and listen and shift according to our child's needs and abilities to find what works for that individual.
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Exactly!!!
 
jillio said:
I remember him stating that he recommended his daughter take an ASL course when she was in college. Other than that, he has always been an advocate for the oral only approach.
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Actually, ALL his posts advocate for parental choice and following a child's lead. He doesn't say that everyone should do oral only, he clearly says "do what works for your child". Jillio is the one who says "do it my way or your child will fail" (or at least have terrible language, cognitive, and emotional problems). Rick is for choice and options, Jillio says "one size fits all".
 
faire_jour said:
Actually, ALL his posts advocate for parental choice and following a child's lead. He doesn't say that everyone should do oral only, he clearly says "do what works for your child". Jillio is the one who says "do it my way or your child will fail" (or at least have terrible language, cognitive, and emotional problems). Rick is for choice and options, Jillio says "one size fits all".
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Parental choice regarding implantation.

I challenge you, as well, to come up with a single instance in which I have ever stated that "one size fits all. You cannot do it. Unless you can find a quote regarding these accusations, you will need to desist from this libelous practice of misrepresentation you are so intent on engaging.
Again, Jillio says nothing of the kind. If you are going to attempt to interpret what Jillio says, or what Jillio advocates for, please do it correctly, instead of simply attempting to cast dispersion and misrepresent. Your false statements are getting very old. Obviously, you are concerned only with trying to continue some sort of a grudge and "win" some sort of a personal vendetta rather than having an educated discussion regarding the topic. Take your personal issues elsewhere, please.
 
jillio said:
Parental choice regarding implantation.

I challenge you, as well, to come up with a single instance in which I have ever stated that "one size fits all. You cannot do it. Unless you can find a quote regarding these accusations, you will need to desist from this libelous practice of misrepresentation you are so intent on engaging.
Again, Jillio says nothing of the kind. If you are going to attempt to interpret what Jillio says, or what Jillio advocates for, please do it correctly, instead of simply attempting to cast dispersion and misrepresent. Your false statements are getting very old. Obviously, you are concerned only with trying to continue some sort of a grudge and "win" some sort of a personal vendetta rather than having an educated discussion regarding the topic. Take your personal issues elsewhere, please.
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Are you saying that you do not believe that if children with a hearing loss are NOT given ASL they will end up with social, emotional, cognitive and linguistic problems?

If you believe that, then there is only one way to make sure that your child doesn't have those problems...therefore, only one way to provide your child with language.
 
FJ..what is your problem? It seems like u are ok with deaf children being put at risks for language delays if both aren't give to them. Iam surprise that you would advocate for something like that. Wow
 
Again, you are inserting meaning and misinterpreting. Please refrain from doing so. There is never only one way to address anything. The fact that you seem to believe there is is just an example of the dichotomous thinking that continually gets you into trouble with other posters. I am not responsible for your limitations.
 
shel90 said:
FJ..what is your problem? It seems like u are ok with deaf children being put at risks for language delays if both aren't give to them. Iam surprise that you would advocate for something like that. Wow
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Her problem is that she is so intent on arguing and proving me wrong that she doesn't even see the many contradictions she is guilty of in the process.:roll:
 
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