Profoundly deaf man scores over 90% speech recognition with hearing aids!

Status
Not open for further replies.
jasin said:
I addressed the centers themselves and not any specific disorder in the processing at these centers. Furthermore, Capd is not the only thing that can occur with or in these centers are still wrong.
Click to expand...

CAPD and other neurological disorders of processing, such as certain types of aphasia do not lead to hearing loss. The 8th cranial nerve is functional, as are the structures of the ear. The problem is in processing the sound that is perceived. The brain receives the sound stimuli, it just does not process it to meaning.

Hearing loss, on the other hand, means that the brain is not receiving the sound stimuli, so it cannot process what it doesn't receive through the neural pathways. It is not a problem of the brain's processing centers.

My statements are not wrong.
 
jillio said:
CAPD and other neurological disorders of processing, such as certain types of aphasia do not lead to hearing loss. The 8th cranial nerve is functional, as are the structures of the ear. The problem is in processing the sound that is perceived. The brain receives the sound stimuli, it just does not process it to meaning.

Hearing loss, on the other hand, means that the brain is not receiving the sound stimuli, so it cannot process what it doesn't receive through the neural pathways. It is not a problem of the brain's processing centers.

My statements are not wrong.
Click to expand...

The problem with this statement is that you are still assuming that all loss of hearing as a result of something happening to or with the central processing centers is capd. Traumatic brain injury, for example, to this part of the brain definitely would cause sensorineural hearing loss.
 
jasin said:
The problem with this statement is that you are still assuming that all loss of hearing as a result of something happening to or with the central processing centers is capd. Traumatic brain injury, for example, to this part of the brain definitely would cause sensorineural hearing loss.
Click to expand...

I am assuming nothing of the sort. I simply used CAPD as an example of a processing disorder involving language. And a TBI would not cause a hearing loss unless there is damage to the 8th cranial nerve. If the damage is to the auditory processing center of the brain, it is a processing disorder, not a hearing loss. Damage to the auditory processing center does not mean the individual cannot hear. It means that that cannot process auditory stimuli. In deafness, the auditory stimuli is prevented from even reaching the brain.

Deafness=sound is not transmitted to the brain.

Disorders of the auditory processing centers=sound is received by the brain, but is not processed to meaning.
 
jillio said:
I am assuming nothing of the sort. I simply used CAPD as an example of a processing disorder involving language. And a TBI would not cause a hearing loss unless there is damage to the 8th cranial nerve. If the damage is to the auditory processing center of the brain, it is a processing disorder, not a hearing loss. Damage to the auditory processing center does not mean the individual cannot hear. It means that that cannot process auditory stimuli. In deafness, the auditory stimuli is prevented from even reaching the brain.

Deafness=sound is not transmitted to the brain.

Disorders of the auditory processing centers=sound is received by the brain, but is not processed to meaning.
Click to expand...

You still continue to miss the point. I was originally addressing the fact that there are causes for sensoneural hearing loss that have nothing to do with the inner ear its self. That was all affirmed by the sources I gave too, which clearly contradict what you and others on here have stated.
 
Last edited:
jasin said:
You still continue to miss the point. I was originally addressing the fact that there are causes for sensoneural hearing loss that have nothing to do with the inner ear its self. That was all affirmed by the sources I gave too, which clearly contradict what you and others on here have stated.
Click to expand...

The processing centers of the brain are not one of them.

Sensorineural hearing loss occurs when there is damage to the inner ear (cochlea) or to the nerve pathways from the inner ear (retrocochlear) to the brain. Sensorineural hearing loss cannot be medically or surgically corrected. It is a permanent loss.

Type, Degree, and Configuration of Hearing Loss

(nerve pathways would be the 8th cranial nerve damage I referred to in a couple of previous posts.)

Examples of conditions that may cause a conductive hearing loss include:

Conditions associated with middle ear pathology such as fluid in the middle ear from colds, allergies (serous otitis media), poor eustachian tube function, ear infection (otitis media), perforated eardrum, benign tumors
Impacted earwax (cerumen)
Infection in the ear canal (external otitis)
Presence of a foreign body
Absence or malformation of the outer ear, ear canal, or middle ear

Type, Degree, and Configuration of Hearing Loss

This is exactly what was said previously. Maybe you'll accept it from ASHA.:roll:
 
jillio said:
The processing centers of the brain are not one of them.

Sensorineural hearing loss occurs when there is damage to the inner ear (cochlea) or to the nerve pathways from the inner ear (retrocochlear) to the brain.
Click to expand...

NOT according to the ICD-10 H90.3-H90.5, ICD-9 389.1, DiseasesDB 2874, and MeSH D006319. Those sources do list numerous other causes, not just causes based within or dealing with the inner ear its self, for Sensorineural hearing loss.

see:

http://www.who.int/classifications/apps/icd/icd10online/?gh90.htm+h903

http://www.who.int/classifications/apps/icd/icd10online/?gh90.htm+h905

http://www.diseasesdatabase.com/ddb2874.htm

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/cgi/mesh/2009/MB_cgi?field=uid&term=D006319
 
Deafteen90 said:
Sensorineural hearing loss is a type of hearing loss in which the root cause lies in the vestibulocochlear nerve (Cranial nerve VIII), the inner ear, or central processing centers of the brain.
Sensorineural hearing loss - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

as quoted on wikepedia
Click to expand...

Yep, and that is consistent with my previous statements that this type of hearing loss can lie, or be based, in places other then the inner ear its self. As your source states and I have previously stated, the cause can lie within the "central processing centers".
 
Last edited:
jasin said:
Yep, and that is consistent with my previous statements that this type of hearing loss can lie, or be based, in places other then the inner ear its self. As your source states and I have previously stated, the cause can lie within the "central processing centers".
Click to expand...

I'd check sources other than Wiki if I were you. Disorders of the cental auditory processing centers is a neurological disorder, not deafness. It can't be deafness, because in disorders of the central processing centers, the stimuli are received. In sensorineural hearing loss, the stimuli are never received in the brain (central processing centers) because pathology in the cochlea and/ or the 8th cranial nerve prevent the stimuli from being transmitted. You seem to have difficulty determining the difference between deafness and disorders of processing. They are not the same thing.

Your first link is just diagnostic codes. Useless for description of the auditory mechanisms involved in a sensorineural loss. These are nothing more than standard medical codes.

2nd link is same as the first. Just diagnostic codes.

3rd link is nothing more than a link to various other data bases. No discussion of the mechanisms involved.

4th link says exactly what I am saying. It refers to inner ear cochlear damage that prevents stimulation of the 8th cranial nerve, and 8th cranial nerve damage that prevents the stimuli from being received in the brain stem. The brain stem is not a cental processing center. Information from the 8th cranial nerve is received in the brainstem, and the brainstem transmits the information to the processing center. However, as your link clearly states, as have I, in 8th cranial nerve damage, the brain does not receive the stimuli. Therefore, nothing is transmitted to the central processing centers. Hence, sensorineural hearing loss.
 
jillio said:
Your first link is just diagnostic codes. Useless for description of the auditory mechanisms involved in a sensorineural loss. These are nothing more than standard medical codes.

2nd link is same as the first. Just diagnostic codes.
Click to expand...

The icd is also a classification of diseases and a wide variety of signs, symptoms, abnormal findings, complaints, social circumstances and external causes of injury or disease. Therefore, your argument that some of my sources are nothing more then just medical code -- is false.
 
Last edited:
jillio said:
3rd link is nothing more than a link to various other data bases.
Click to expand...

Whether the source contains information from multiple databases or not is really irrelavent as the information from those databse(s) is still true and factual. Furthermore, You have not shown the information from those database(s) to be untrue or irrelevant -- you basically just disregarded it without any logical justification or sound reasoning.
 
jillio said:
.

4th link says exactly what I am saying. It refers to inner ear cochlear damage that prevents stimulation of the 8th cranial nerve, and 8th cranial nerve damage that prevents the stimuli from being received in the brain stem. The brain stem is not a cental processing center. Information from the 8th cranial nerve is received in the brainstem, and the brainstem transmits the information to the processing center. However, as your link clearly states, as have I, in 8th cranial nerve damage, the brain does not receive the stimuli. Therefore, nothing is transmitted to the central processing centers. Hence, sensorineural hearing loss.
Click to expand...

Go back and reread the "Scope Note". The auditory nerve connections at the brain stem its self is listed. That is outside of the inner ear its self.
 
I may be wrong, but I don't think someone with a conductive loss alone can receive a CI. I believe there also needs to be a sensorineural component to their hearing loss.
Click to expand...
I think they can if for example they have otosceloris and the bone invades the coachlear.
jasin, a loss due to a brain injuiry would be a central loss, not a SN loss.
Central losses have to do with processing in the brain.
SN losses have to do with malfnction in the coachlea.
 
Lets get back on topic. I will do the math for this guy in his worse ear:

1240906462039854100.jpg


This is his audiogram. You can see he's missing about a third of the speech banana in the lows and all of it in the highs. He does have the most access in the mids. Overall, I am still surprised his speech comphrension is that good even in his worse ear which would be much worse than either of my ears! This is something I am very curious about and I believe if it's possible for him, I should also be able to achieve at least equal speech comphrension as he.

I did compare his audiogram to mine(in sig) and he does have a 5db advantage in the mids but 20db disadvantage in the lows. It doesn't say what HAs he wore, I estimated his aided score based on my HA's potental. He could be wearing the Oticon Sumo, but that HA still would only give him a few db more low frequency gain than my HAs.
 
jasin said:
Wiki was not my source it was someone elses.
Click to expand...

You confirmed Wiki as being consistent with what you are saying.:cool2: Here it is:

Yep, and that is consistent with my previous statements
 
jasin said:
The icd is also a classification of diseases and a wide variety of signs, symptoms, abnormal findings, complaints, social circumstances and external causes of injury or disease. Therefore, your argument that some of my sources are nothing more then just medical code -- is false.
Click to expand...

What do you think classifications are? They are diagnostic categories. Diagnositic categories are identified by using diagnostic codes. Therefore, your sources are just diagnostic coding used in the medical profession.
 
jasin said:
Whether the source contains information from multiple databases or not is really irrelavent as the information from those databse(s) is still true and factual. Furthermore, You have not shown the information from those database(s) to be untrue or irrelevant -- you basically just disregarded it without any logical justification or sound reasoning.
Click to expand...

I disregarded it because it offers nothing to support what you are saying regarding sensorineural deafness.
 
jasin said:
Go back and reread the "Scope Note". The auditory nerve connections at the brain stem its self is listed. That is outside of the inner ear its self.
Click to expand...

The auditory nerve is the 8th cranial nerve, and pathology of the 8th canial nerve has already been stated by me as a primary cause of sensorineural deafness. In an individual with normal hearing, the 8th cranial nerve extends from the inner ear to the brain stem. Sound stimuli is picked up in the 8th cranial nerve, which then transmits it to the brainstem, where the brainstem then sends the stimuli to the auditory processing center in the brain where it is processed to meaning.

In pathology of the 8th cranial nerve, leading to sensorineural deafness, the
8th cranial nerve is damaged, and therefore, is unable to transmit sound stimuli to the brainstem. Because the nerve itself has not transmitted the sound stimuli to the brainstem, it is never reached in the auditory processing center. However, that is not a neurological problem. It is the pathology of the nerve that is responsible for the lack of sound stimuli being received in the brain. As the 8th cranial nerve has long been identified as a causative agent in sensorineural deafness, everything I have said is supported, whether the damage to the nerve is where it attaches to the inner ear, or whether the problem with the nerve is where it attaches to the brain stem. It is still the 8th cranial nerve that is responsible.:roll:
 
deafdyke said:
I think they can if for example they have otosceloris and the bone invades the coachlear.
jasin, a loss due to a brain injuiry would be a central loss, not a SN loss.
Central losses have to do with processing in the brain.
SN losses have to do with malfnction in the coachlea.
Click to expand...

Maybe I worded that example wrong .. I don't know, but I do know that SN hearing loss is not always based on something that's with or in the inner ear and that was my original argument. My source document that fact too and here is one statement I gave proving that.

The auditory nerve connections at the brain stem its self is listed. That is outside of the inner ear its self.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top