Mainstream V Special School

jillio said:
The child with good self esteem has the potential to perform up to their potential. The child without good self esteem doesn't. Why would you further disable a child by placing them in an environment that has been shown to negatively affect their self esteem?

There are illiterate people in all walks of life. Some deaf, some hearing. Some don't have the potential to become literate, but most do. They simply had very negative experiences in school, were treated as if they could not learn, and the self fulfilling prophecy was set in motion.
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How will it help my child's self esteem to be in a school that continually fails it's students? The kind of school Daredevil is describing is not going to help raise a child's self worth. It is allowing them to fall further behind and not giving them the education and skills they need for the future.

Is it better to be around other deaf kids and have the language of instruction be ASL and sacrifice *everything* else (literacy, content and academics)?*


*(And, yes, I know that most Deaf schools aren't that way, but a few are, including the one Daredevil visited. Not all parents have access to a high quality Deaf school, so is it better to put their child in a "bad" Deaf school, just because it is a Deaf school?)
 
faire_jour said:
How will it help my child's self esteem to be in a school that continually fails it's students? The kind of school Daredevil is describing is not going to help raise a child's self worth. It is allowing them to fall further behind and not giving them the education and skills they need for the future.

Is it better to be around other deaf kids and have the language of instruction be ASL and sacrifice *everything* else (literacy, content and academics)?*


*(And, yes, I know that most Deaf schools aren't that way, but a few are, including the one Daredevil visited. Not all parents have access to a high quality Deaf school, so is it better to put their child in a "bad" Deaf school, just because it is a Deaf school?)
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You, apparently, are confusing two different concepts; that of self esteem and that of academic performance. They are not one and the same, and are accomplished with quite different mechanisms.
 
faire_jour said:
It isn't purposely but it still happens, for a variety of reasons.
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And, it happens in ALL schools. That is one of the reasons that it is very dangerous to choose a school whose ratings are high based on their hearing population and believe that it will apply to the deaf child, as well.
 
jillio said:
You, apparently, are confusing two different concepts; that of self esteem and that of academic performance. They are not one and the same, and are accomplished with quite different mechanisms.
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I am not confused at all. Where did I make an error?
 
jillio said:
And, it happens in ALL schools. That is one of the reasons that it is very dangerous to choose a school whose ratings are high based on their hearing population and believe that it will apply to the deaf child, as well.
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That is why I said that you must provide appropriate accomidations for the deaf child.
 
jillio said:
And how often does that actually get accomplished in the mainstream?
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I don't have any direct experience with mainstream schools, since my child still attends a school for the deaf, but I would say it depends on the school, just like everything else.
 
The risks for my child to be ilerate being mainstreamed are higher than being in an environment where language and communication is fully accessible. If there was a BiBI dhh program art a public school that shows respect to Deaf culture and ASL, sure I would put my child there but mainstreamed as the only deaf child..no way.
 
shel90 said:
The risks for my child to be ilerate being mainstreamed are higher than being in an environment where language and communication is fully accessible. If there was a BiBI dhh program art a public school that shows respect to Deaf culture and ASL, sure I would put my child there but mainstreamed as the only deaf child..no way.
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So, your answer to my question is yes? ASL as the language of instruction trumps everything (poor academics, kids graduating without being able to read and write, etc)?
 
faire_jour said:
I don't have any direct experience with mainstream schools, since my child still attends a school for the deaf, but I would say it depends on the school, just like everything else.
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Well, then, let's think about this, shall we?

You are very fond of quoting that estimated 4th grade reading level for deaf students. The vast majority of deaf students are educated in a mainstream environment. Only a small minority actually attend a school for the deaf, and even a smaller minority have the advantage of being educated in a bi-bi environment.

That number you love to use to support your arguments is based on all deaf students, not just those attending deaf schools. So, it follows naturally that the mainstream certainly isn't serving the needs of the deaf student, and therefore, it can be believed that few have proper accommodations in the mainstream.

I'm curious...if you have no experience with mainstream schools, why is it that you consistently side with the mainstream as being the better choice?
 
faire_jour said:
So, your answer to my question is yes? ASL as the language of instruction trumps everything (poor academics, kids graduating without being able to read and write, etc)?
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She asked me about my child and I answered. I dont know about others. Everyone has different views. I feel that every deaf child has the right to full access to language and communication. I believe that all deaf schools use the public school curriculm to teach but if a child comes to the school with language delays, they need to catch up first. Rather just looking at numbers, look at why.
 
shel90 said:
She asked me about my child and I answered. I dont know about others. Everyone has different views. I feel that every deaf child has the right to full access to language and communication. I believe that all deaf schools use the public school curriculm to teach but if a child comes to the school with language delays, they need to catch up first. Rather just looking at numbers, look at why.
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Exactly. When you include the "why" a very different picture is painted than the one that those who propose mainstream education as the best option would like to believe.
 
I would put my child in a deaf school.. but not the ones who treat deaf as if there no hope in them. But even mainstream schools tend to treat deaf that way (that's why we all these crazy comments from hearing teachers)
 
jillio said:
Well, then, let's think about this, shall we?

You are very fond of quoting that estimated 4th grade reading level for deaf students. The vast majority of deaf students are educated in a mainstream environment. Only a small minority actually attend a school for the deaf, and even a smaller minority have the advantage of being educated in a bi-bi environment.

That number you love to use to support your arguments is based on all deaf students, not just those attending deaf schools. So, it follows naturally that the mainstream certainly isn't serving the needs of the deaf student, and therefore, it can be believed that few have proper accommodations in the mainstream.

I'm curious...if you have no experience with mainstream schools, why is it that you consistently side with the mainstream as being the better choice?
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First of all, I believe I have mentioned the "stat" to which you are refering, once or twice on this message board in the last year, and not at all in this discussion.

Secondly, I have consistantly said that a Deaf school is often a good choice for a deaf child. My own child has attended a state school for the deaf all of her educational years, and it is possible that she will continue.

However, I do believe that there are situations in which a Deaf school would be a bad choice. Daredevil brought up a situation, and we have been discussing it. In that situation, I would not allow my child to attend that school. Just as Sallylou said, parents must look at all their options and make a responsible choice.

It seems to me that you are saying that a Deaf school is the only right choice, and while that may have been true for your child, it is not always the case.
 
jillio said:
Exactly. When you include the "why" a very different picture is painted than the one that those who propose mainstream education as the best option would like to believe.
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I don't care about why (when it comes to choosing a school for my child, if we are talking about parent education or advocacy, of course I care, and I'm fighting for change)! If I walk into a 5th grade class and none of the kids can write an age appropriate sentence and they are all reading on a Kindergarten level, no, I would not put my academically age appropriate child in that school. Why the children are behind won't change the decision.
 
faire_jour said:
I don't care about why (when it comes to choosing a school for my child, if we are talking about parent education or advocacy, of course I care, and I'm fighting for change)! If I walk into a 5th grade class and none of the kids can write an age appropriate sentence and they are all reading on a Kindergarten level, no, I would not put my academically age appropriate child in that school. Why the children are behind won't change the decision.
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How would you feel if your own daughter in oral school is at kindergarten level at 5th grade?

btw, in mainstreamed, I was in 2nd or 3rd english level when I was in 5th grade. They just brush me off as deaf and ignore it. I think I am still in 3rd grade English or so.
 
Lighthouse77 said:
I would put my child in a deaf school.. but not the ones who treat deaf as if there no hope in them. But even mainstream schools tend to treat deaf that way (that's why we all these crazy comments from hearing teachers)
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I would say you see that attitude coming far more often from the mainstream, simply because the teachers and the administration have no understanding of deafness.
 
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