I am mad that I have CI *sigh*

Why are you so afraid of a different opinion? No one here is anti-CI. We are merely pointing out that there are limitations they don't work for everyone, and there are more issues to consider than simply the surgery and the level of hearing. If you are so convinced that you are correct, then differing opinions shouldn't bother you in the least. Those whohave experienced difficulty with CI have as much right to post here as those whohave had success. When you want to edit the postinopiniong of people who have had negative experience, it reminds me of the audists who didn't want to present parents with the downsides of the oral philosophy. People need to have realistic expectations, and the only way that can be accomplished is to present all sides.

I wasn't afraid of a different opinion. My reaction was to posters like the one who claimed that all CIs stink. You do get tired of this stuff after a while.

I think that all parents should take up sign as well as speech. However, we can not control what parents do with with their kids. I have never claimed that CIs are miracles and I would consider it irresponsible of doctors to promote it as a cure for deafness. I think the CI people in Ivan's dad case misrepresented the whole CI thing.

I have never been against posters who have negative experiences with their CIs but I do get tired of posters like the one who claimed that all CIs stink because of a poster's negative experiences with it.

I've never claimed that CIs are a cure for deafness or that they work every time.
 
Really? That wasn't my experience when I went to UNC to see if I could be a candidate.



it is a business That's how the business works .. even you are a candidate or not ... their job to convience more more people everyday ... just like hearing aids, glasses, even clothes etc etc ..
 
it is a business That's how the business works .. even you are a candidate or not ... their job to convience more more people everyday ... just like hearing aids, glasses, even clothes etc etc ..


Then why are they losing money on this?
 
I wasn't afraid of a different opinion. My reaction was to posters like the one who claimed that all CIs stink. You do get tired of this stuff after a while.

I think that all parents should take up sign as well as speech. However, we can not control what parents do with with their kids. I have never claimed that CIs are miracles and I would consider it irresponsible of doctors to promote it as a cure for deafness. I think the CI people in Ivan's dad case misrepresented the whole CI thing.

I have never been against posters who have negative experiences with their CIs but I do get tired of posters like the one who claimed that all CIs stink because of a poster's negative experiences with it.

I've never claimed that CIs are a cure for deafness or that they work every time.

Apologies for my misunderstanding!
 
Thanks Spock for your intelligently reasoned thoughts. It sounds like you have a very caring family who are sensitive to your feelings.

I know what you mean about "the only thing we can't do is hear" line of thinking and I know that we have role models who have certainly achieved everything that a hearing person can. However one has to be quite highly motivated and resilient to do that and many of us are just not that. The reality is that there is higher unemployment levels for deaf people and underemployment. Many of us have work in the "deaf industry", which is shrinking. It costs an extra $1M to educate deaf child through the traditional special education route. There is higher levels of mental illness among us too, which is not surprising as we are a minority and 90% of us are born into hearing families. Worse - we are getting fewer in number. The numbers of deaf babies being born have dropped quite significantly due to medical advances and decreased fertility rates in general.
What I am saying is that I believe that it doesn't hurt to be pragmatic, to honestly recognise difficulties and not be afraid to grow by adapting. society is not going to do it for us and the power base is shrinking due to dropping numbers.

At the end of the day I still come back to it. I think that while parents should educate ourselves about the opinions of all different outcomes I don't think it should be *the* only factor in a parent's decision making process. You probably don't either. As we have seen on this board there is a wide variation in opinion and experience. Moreover, I believe the number of deaf people actually involved in the culture itself is a minority, so that has to be considered too.

Another factor to consider is that the body of opinion in any culture changes over time and does not stand still. At the time that your parents' would have implanted you the opinion in deaf culture against implants was how can we put it extremely opposed. Since then people have moderated their views, realising that CIs are here to stay and policy statements have been changed. What will be the situation in 20 years time? Should parents base their decisions based on the opinions of here and today when by the time the child is an adult everyone could have moved on?

Take hearing aids - when they first came out in the 1940s people were deeply opposed to them. Today they are accepted and not seen as something that threatens deaf culture or turn you into robots or whatever. It seems to me that there is a similar pattern with CIs. I think that with a carefully thought out approach combining a CI (only if appropriate for that child) and exposure to other deaf people and language - what could be wrong with that?

I'm glad you posted because I do think it's important for parents today to read about a wide range of experiences and feelings. But again what is one man's medicine is another man's poison.

R2D2,

Due to this being my first time participating in a CI discussion, I was at an uneducated disadvantage. R2D2, you did a good job of communicating and it's appreciated...

You have thoroughly convinced me that there is more to the CI controversy. I'm on your side now. Given certain requirements the parent must first meet before even setting a date for CI surgery. (This is covered later)

You replied,

I think that with a carefully thought out approach combining a CI (only if appropriate for that child) and exposure to other deaf people and language - what could be wrong with that?
Nothing is wrong with that as far as I'm concerned, otherwise I'm just being a baby about it. Taking in consideration every factor you mentioned, i.e. the higher levels of mental illness due to minority status, the need to be highly resilient and motivated...in addition to the fact that no parent can predict whether or not the deaf child will turn out motivated despite intelligence, it does make sense to me to implant deaf children in order to help them lead much more meaningful and productive lives than they would've otherwise.

It can be quite difficult to be in the minority of everything...I'm clearly more of the exception than the "rule of thumb" given a failed CI. I picked up language and other information faster than any deaf children in the pre-school, even though my CI didn't work for me. My learning rate flabbergasted my teachers... when I was 7-years-old I already had the language skills of a 14-year-old and was winning math and reading competitions in elementary school.

If my parents been able to predict the future in terms of intelligence/motivation then I wouldn't have really needed a CI at 3-years-old. There's always the possibility the CI could have helped me out in many ways, but I could've made the choice as I got older if my parents knew that I was destined for success either way. This is not intended to show off. I'm not your typical case report. Most deaf children in hearing society, I've noticed, end up taking the special education route... a CI, however, would raise their potential of getting a good job, having friends, and being highly motivated in a hearing society... all these aspects would result in a much higher quality of life from a worldwide perspective. But remember: a CI will never remove the fact that the individual is still deaf without the CI.

Recognizing that most deaf children do not turn out to be highly motivated in hearing society, and the need to address this, there are four considerations to bear in mind:

1) it's not in favor with the odds to assume that a child will have high motivation... (pro-CI)
2) it's not possible to predict the exact outcome of a CI surgery, but with a carefully thought out approach (short-term and long-term), there are usually very positive outcomes... (pro-CI) (note: regarding positive outcomes, I'm not 100% sure, since I do not know success rate and the measure of the positive outcomes for the average CI recipient. I'm listing things off the top of my head, even if it's not necessarily 100% correct)
3) the very high safety of the operation procedure... (pro-CI)
4) more "common opportunities" being available as opposed to few "rare opportunities"... (pro-CI)

It is a very difficult choice, but a very favorable one given the motivation trend with deaf children, in addition to the shrinking deaf population. It is as you say...
Worse - we are getting fewer in number. The numbers of deaf babies being born have dropped quite significantly due to medical advances and decreased fertility rates in general.

A realist can understand that this means being "left behind". Feelings have to be set aside to understand this concept clearly. What if it's nearly impossible to find a deaf community as large as it is today, in the future? What if it's harder to find people who can relate with you because of your deafness? It would be a lonely world and this possibility cannot be disregarded, due to the rapid progress of technology and medicine.

Parents still need to understand that their children could get frustrated later especially if the CI doesn't turn out as hoped, especially if the child doesn't have correct parental support. If the parent does not carefully plan out everything (short-term and long-term), the eventual emotional damage to the child in society can possibly be incalculable. This planning is of highest priority and needs to be done before even considering setting a CI surgery date.

Parents need to be ready prior to setting a date of surgery regarding the following:

1. The general success level of CI operation, and doctor's estimate of potential success for the child with a CI.
2. Finding and working with an ethical and understanding CI team, and understanding CI technology trends.
3. Having a certain long-term plan for speech and CI training, as well as child's development at home and school.
4. Having a good plan to find peers with hearing loss that the child can relate to, a community that can understand what it's like being deaf (a CI child is still deaf with the CI processor turned off).
5. Understanding the child will need more attention and understanding due to things like making friends due to deafness, and lost play/homework/free time due to speech and CI training.

In addition, I strongly recommend that parents need to print off meaningful conversations like yours and mine and save them for later in case the child asks why. Then the parents have solid, supporting evidence to show what a difficult choice it had been, and that they did check things out thoroughly before giving the child the operation.

Thank you for posting, R2D2.
 
My parents didn't do 2, 3, 4, 5 on the list (shown above) of what parents need to do to be prepared before a CI surgery.

That's why I felt disappointed about having a CI. There's a lot more to the story but I didn't give full consent (or must've signed a document without understanding its full ramifications) to getting my 2nd CI surgery, and my step-mother announced unexpectedly that my CI surgery was set for June 10th (or 11th), 1997. I remember being taken by surprise, but I did nothing about it due to being extremely socially delayed and misunderstood by everyone. I wanted things to be different, somehow, a drastic change in my life, and it could have been CI or anything else. So I accepted, without a care in the world for any side effects the CI could have on me, and did not even worry about any potential damage that it could have on me.

I'm very different than I used to be, but I had strong feelings about the CI because of how they often misunderstood and neglected my needs. I was socially like a 4-year-old trapped in the body of a 16-year-old with the brain of a 30-year-old, figuratively speaking.

In addition, my dad and step-mom never thought about what I could do with my 2nd CI after I graduated from high school. I had no idea how to start due to being socially delayed in my independence, such as how to get CI and speech training for free. No one (not even my parents) ever took any initiative to do anything to help me with the CI after high school, and it's easy to see why someone would feel like he were stuck with a machine in his head, given the circumstances. I wasn't prepared for the real world then. I had 1 1/2 years of high school left after getting the 2nd CI, and my dad had never, ever looked into the long-term to help me with CI progression. No plan. Nothing. He simply put the CI in my head and assumed I could figure out how to get myself help after high school. Yet the CI was his idea in the first place.

I want hearing parents to read my story so they understand what not to do. I appreciate the initiative hearing parents on this board are taking to explore their options and read the stories of deaf people with CI, before getting their children CI surgeries. I especially appreciate the efforts of hearing parents who stay on the board to discuss things, even post-surgery, on how to support the deaf child.
 
Thank you for your posts, Spock and I hope that parents of CIs will take your input into consideration.
 
Thanks very much for your thoughts Spock. It's heartening to talk with someone who is as pragmatic as you are and who is able to differentiate between your own situation and that of someone else. I think that stories like yours are very important to hearing parents who are considering a CI for their child because that is a possible outcome for them that they need to be aware about. I do like the way that you've turned yourself around to constructively advise such parents to be sensitive to the needs of their deaf children and to be prepared for those different outcomes.

R2D2,
But remember: a CI will never remove the fact that the individual is still deaf without the CI.

Absolutely. The CI is not a cure for deafness but is rather a tool that allows most profoundly deaf people who cannot benefit from aids to hear. It provides for most, not all people a pretty good artificial representation of sound. But we still need batteries to run it and when we take it off...we are still deaf. Actually I like switching between the two - it's nice to have silence (albeit with tinnitus) sometimes, especially at night :)

Also as you say that deaf child will still want to identify with others like him or her and will still need support in school, emotionally and through speech or language therapy. Sign also has a role to play in assisting with language development. I can really see from your experience that you were basically left to swim on your own without support, which must have stemmed from unrealistic expectations of the CI.

Parents need to be ready prior to setting a date of surgery regarding the following:

1. The general success level of CI operation, and doctor's estimate of potential success for the child with a CI.
2. Finding and working with an ethical and understanding CI team, and understanding CI technology trends.
3. Having a certain long-term plan for speech and CI training, as well as child's development at home and school.
4. Having a good plan to find peers with hearing loss that the child can relate to, a community that can understand what it's like being deaf (a CI child is still deaf with the CI processor turned off).
5. Understanding the child will need more attention and understanding due to things like making friends due to deafness, and lost play/homework/free time due to speech and CI training.

This is a really good suggested plan. I think this is the sort of positive advice that most of the hearing parents who come to AD are looking for and where I feel that the deaf community will always have a role to play.

Thanks again for your thoughts.
 
Spock said:
1. The general success level of CI operation, and doctor's estimate of potential success for the child with a CI.
In our case that is exactly what I asked for and was not provided with any statistics other than what our doctor claimed her success rate was. We were offered no evidence to support the claim either.

Spock said:
2. Finding and working with an ethical and understanding CI team, and understanding CI technology trends.
If you are talkin pre-decision this is ok if you have the luxury of time. Time is not always on your side If you subscribe to the "window of opportunity" theory then time is of the essence. In our case we had our backs against the wall because of ossification (choclea turns boney) due to menengitis. Other cases where menengitis is the culprit will most likely have a very small window of time as well. One can spend literally months on research. In our case we could not wait months or even weeks.

Spock said:
3. Having a certain long-term plan for speech and CI training, as well as child's development at home and school.
A long term plan is needed for a deaf child regardless of the CI

Spock said:
4. Having a good plan to find peers with hearing loss that the child can relate to, a community that can understand what it's like being deaf (a CI child is still deaf with the CI processor turned off).
Agree 100% but again this applies to deaf regardless of the CI.

Spock said:
5. Understanding the child will need more attention and understanding due to things like making friends due to deafness, and lost play/homework/free time due to speech and CI training.
Very good point. Good luck getting your child to understand that. LOL. it's the same with hearing kids. They don't want to do their homework, they want to go and play.

Spock said:
In addition, I strongly recommend that parents need to print off meaningful conversations like yours and mine and save them for later in case the child asks why. Then the parents have solid, supporting evidence to show what a difficult choice it had been, and that they did check things out thoroughly before giving the child the operation.
I agree with this for the reason of certian individuals will try to fill you child with nonsense about his or her parents choosing a CI for selfish reasons. There are some parents that make the choice for selfish reasons but there are also many that don't. Some individuals on this board keep insisting that parents choose CI's for their children because they don't accept their childs deafness, or because they are taking the easy way out and don't want to learn ASL. They can't seem to grasp any other view than the negative one.
 
My deafness was caused by spinal meningitis, which led to cochlear ossification (bone buildup inside the cochlea)... I can see how ossification would give parents a very limited time frame. Nevertheless, parents need to recognize the importance of having a well thought out plan (short-term and long-term)... that goes without saying, whether done before or after the surgery. Much better if done before, otherwise you're endangering the child's chances of success with CI. In addition, the child eventually may misinterpret it as an imposing of misguided, unethical will on the parent's part, which can be potentially deadly to the relationship.

Anyway, the list I made earlier of what parents need to do prior to setting a date of surgery would probably be reasonable if the parent had a month or two's time frame to work within. I guess that's not true in everyone's case. My intended audience had been parents of hearing children just turned deaf, because that's what I'm normally seeing on this board--parents of infants just turned deaf, coming for help on making decisions regarding CI surgery.

Despite this, some of the list still applies to deaf children without CIs.

Regarding learning sign language, you are correct R2D2. Sign language is a reliable way for deaf children to get 100% of everything said as a mode of communication, as opposed to speechreading. The problem with teaching only speech and speechreading is that even the best lipreaders will understand anywhere between 0-100% of what is said, depending on the circumstances. Citation: Lip Reading Translation: FAQ

Sign language wasn't on my list, but it is still a good idea to learn sign language as soon as the child becomes deaf. I was thinking along the lines of CI surgery considerations, but you are correct R2D2.

So, parents of deaf children need to understand this: sign language is meant for effective communication 100% of the time, while speech and lipreading are essential skills for understanding what is going on in hearing society.

Here's a refined version of the list:

Parents should try to be ready prior to setting a date of surgery regarding the following:

1. The general success level of CI operation, and doctor's estimate of potential success for the child with a CI.
2. Finding and working with an ethical and understanding CI team, and understanding CI technology trends.
3. Having a certain long-term plan for speech and CI training, as well as child's development at home and school. --(CI or no CI)
4. Having a good plan to find peers with hearing loss that the child can relate to, a community that can understand what it's like being deaf (a CI child is still deaf with the CI processor turned off). --(CI or no CI)
5. Understanding the child will need more attention and understanding due to things like making friends due to deafness, as well as lost play/homework/free time due to speech and CI training. Make sure the child understands the importance of being able to speak and hear. I didn't until I was 16! --(CI or no CI)

Parents also need to consider as soon as the child turns deaf (CI or no CI):
1. Sign language to maximize communication. Possible options:
-enrolling in a sign language class
-learning sign language from videotapes and books
-learning sign language from other deaf people
2. Parents' long-term planning for sign language:
-becoming as fluent in signing as possible, because a slow signing rate can subsequently affect the child's thinking pace in communication.
-quick communication also maximizes information feedback, interaction, learning, and enjoyment
-quick communication helps a deaf child not feel thrown off when around other native users of sign language


***(CI or no CI) means this applies to both implanted / non-implanted deaf children

I'm sure there is probably more I haven't thought of... but these are good starting basics.

Rockdrummer, you said,
There are some parents that make the choice for selfish reasons but there are also many that don't.
I agree. I think most hearing parents have good intentions for their deaf child.
 
DevBaby,

Don't let KINGOFNOOBS' comments bother you. If he wants to call CIs a piece of sh*t, let him. You, LuciaDisturbed, R2D2, myself and other CI users on the board know differently. When your CI is activated, you're going to be amazed at everything you hear! Don't let the comments expressed in this thread discourage you!!

Thank you! We needed to hear possitives coming from the experienced implanters. Im more confused than ever after reading Animal Lover's situation of removing the CI and the "noisy sounds."
 
that will make her hard of hearing?
deaf is for ppl who dont hear at all...
if someone can hear little bit then that is hard of hearing because it is HARD to hear thing...
deaf is like cant hear at all...
I am tired of saying this i am 100% fully deaf to let ppl know that i cant hear little bit..

How can you tell a deaf person you are "hard of hearing?" I believe any serve hearing loss is considered deaf regardless of db's or aids. I've always thought profound was - can't hear at all.
 
Thank you! We needed to hear possitives coming from the experienced implanters. Im more confused than ever after reading Animal Lover's situation of removing the CI and the "noisy sounds."

I'm not going to debate AL feelings on the matter as they are personal opinions and are valid as such (whether I agree or disagree with those opinions is irrelevant). I would suggest to consider that life is full of situations where maybe sometimes we wished they never happened. I can think of a few in my own life (not necessarily related to my deafness or my CI [which BTW I absolutely love]). What's done is done. One needs to move on as there is no way to revisit the past and change it. Instead, learn from the past to live better in the future. Anything else is being a hostage to one's past and a very lousy way to live in the present and future.
 
How can you tell a deaf person you are "hard of hearing?" I believe any serve hearing loss is considered deaf regardless of db's or aids. I've always thought profound was - can't hear at all.

It depends.. Hearing is measured In db's. I just checked my hearing evaluation from 2 years ago.. and I have virtually no hearing in both ears.. from what I could see there were arrows pointing at 120db and going past 120, So i'm assuming it means i can't hear at all.

But you have to remember that people with some hearing who have not been involved in the deaf community will regard themselves has HOH or Hearing Impared, or whatever. The funny thing is.. I was rarely involved in the deaf community throughout my life, yet I still considered myself deaf. So It's an individual choice whenther someone would like to consider themselves Deaf or HOH. It's not how the deaf or hearing community sees you, it's about How YOU see yourself.

And reading this whole thread.. I believe this is about Animal_Lover's feelings regarding his CI, not a discussion about CI's themselves.

Animal_Lover.. All I can say is, do what you think is best, and do what's right for you. If you don't want the CI, that's your choice, and I know we'll all be here to support you :)

:hug:
 
I have a CI. I want it removed, I have not used it in YEARS.

People using a CI and posting here is a conflict of interest, IMO. When you use a CI and endorse it, you are basically trying to be hearing and fit in with the rest of the world, YET you post at ALLDEAF... Your logic escapes me.

Apparently, Insurance companies are happy to pay for the implanting of the CI, because it "helps your health" (JESUS, WHAT THE FUNK?), and removing it is dangerous to your health.

I don't thiunk I will ever get it out, but I will keep trying, and maybe someday put up the cash for it to be removed. I wish you best of luck in getting it removed!!
 
People using a CI and posting here is a conflict of interest, IMO. When you use a CI and endorse it, you are basically trying to be hearing and fit in with the rest of the world, YET you post at ALLDEAF... Your logic escapes me.

Oh please. Me trying to be "hearing"? No. I wanted to have some hearing, not be HEARING. I have NO hearing left without the CI. I am fully aware that CI does not make me 100% hearing, and that I am completely deaf without the CI. Just because I have a CI does not mean I am trying to fit in with the hearing world. I just wanted to hear things, not try to fit in. I quit trying to fit in with certain groups, the world, etc a long time ago. I don't need to fit in with anyone, any group, anything.

I guess you can't respect my and others' choice to get the CI. (for those who chose to be implanted, that is)

:roll:
 
Aww, I understand how you felt.

Last year, I got surgied for CI as curiousity as reason. Since I have the CI, I NEVER wear it. I raised whole my life in deaf world. My parents and some of my families just kept begging me to wear the CI while it gives me headaches and watery eyes, they (even the audiologist) told me it's because my CI is too loud, I tried to put it down and down as much as possible I can, but it still give me headaches and watery eyes.

I decide to not wear it ever again. I prefer to connect with the feeling and visuals. I wish I could remove my implant, but I don't know if my doctor would approve it. :/

I agree, CI sucks. I don't mean as for sounds therpay, but for a life, it sucks tons.
 
.............People using a CI and posting here is a conflict of interest, IMO. When you use a CI and endorse it, you are basically trying to be hearing and fit in with the rest of the world, YET you post at ALLDEAF... Your logic escapes me.
.........
And here I am... silly me, hearing..... thought "AllDeaf" was a place to exchange information about deafness....

So you really have to be deaf as in "not hearing anything" in order to post here?

I think you're wrong..

There is however another messageboard where this IS the case......
 
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