For those who want to practice Finger-spelling

drphil said:
Really! They are all my opinions based in part on my ongoing experiences: Hearing losses over extended time to becoming actually deaf in 2006.
I am aware if I didn't read some of this stuff from CHS/library than the comment would be: gee ONLY your personal experience!
Is this Heads I win/Tails you lose?
Not with standing I am supposedly " unable to read"(odd I can read this computer screen) in reality I have lots of books etc on various subjects which interest me. Doesn't follow I accept what I read.

Implanted Advanced Bionics-Harmony activated Aug/07
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Okay -
How many Deaf (Note: Captial D) gatherings have you went to?

Have you experienced both (either BSL or ASL) and fingerspelling for the duration?

What makes you the authority to tell us all that we should finger spell more because it's faster?

The reason we're feeling grainy here is because we are thinking that you have none of the above and saying since you have hearing loss that you have a right to decide for the other people that fingerspelling is the way of life. The third question is what the issue here in this thread is about.

The "you can't read" remark is in regards of me actually helping you out so you dont have to type out implant adv bionics every post you make. It will go directly into your signature. Is there anything we're missing about that?
 
Meeting with"deaf" persons while I don't know ASL- none! That includes bowling as well! Fingerspelling - was part of the ASL introductory course taken a few years ago- Toronto high school system-Danforth/Northern Secondary. I have mentioned before- considering the fact I couldn't practice ASL with anyone I knew. Thus the futility of continuing beyond the 3 separate classes which the teachers agreed. That was way before going deaf.
I am not a "self-defined authority" in ASL/ fingerspelling/ BSL/ QSL et al. Which it appears that "some" of this group seem to follow. I don't get excited if anyone here uses ASL/ fingerspelling- be my guest! Obvious reason: none of us will actual meet in person: pace "Jenny B". Yeah even seems speaking is now "optional". I guess the idea from Trappist monks is moving into "ASL cultural circles". Yeah-silence is golden!
On some further thought re fingerspelling: a necessary adjunct to the "defect in ASL" not having a specific sign for EVERY word in English. Is this not true? Eliminating fingerspelling would seem to "cause a communication-linguistic problem" in using ASL. I am not unduly concerned about whether typing a short line. is a "massive inconvenience". About 2-3 seconds.

Implanted Advanced Bionics-Harmony activated Aug/07
 
Meeting with"deaf" persons while I don't know ASL- none! That includes bowling as well! Fingerspelling - was part of the ASL introductory course taken a few years ago- Toronto high school system-Danforth/Northern Secondary. I have mentioned before- considering the fact I couldn't practice ASL with anyone I knew. Thus the futility of continuing beyond the 3 separate classes which the teachers agreed. That was way before going deaf.
I am not a "self-defined authority" in ASL/ fingerspelling/ BSL/ QSL et al. Which it appears that "some" of this group seem to follow. I don't get excited if anyone here uses ASL/ fingerspelling- be my guest! Obvious reason: none of us will actual meet in person: pace "Jenny B". Yeah even seems speaking is now "optional". I guess the idea from Trappist monks is moving into "ASL cultural circles". Yeah-silence is golden!
On some further thought re fingerspelling: a necessary adjunct to the "defect in ASL" not having a specific sign for EVERY word in English. Is this not true? Eliminating fingerspelling would seem to "cause a communication-linguistic problem" in using ASL. I am not unduly concerned about whether typing a short line. is a "massive inconvenience". About 2-3 seconds.

Implanted Advanced Bionics-Harmony activated Aug/07
 
drphil said:
Meeting with"deaf" persons while I don't know ASL- none! That includes bowling as well! Fingerspelling - was part of the ASL introductory course taken a few years ago- Toronto high school system-Danforth/Northern Secondary. I have mentioned before- considering the fact I couldn't practice ASL with anyone I knew. Thus the futility of continuing beyond the 3 separate classes which the teachers agreed. That was way before going deaf.
I am not a "self-defined authority" in ASL/ fingerspelling/ BSL/ QSL et al. Which it appears that "some" of this group seem to follow. I don't get excited if anyone here uses ASL/ fingerspelling- be my guest! Obvious reason: none of us will actual meet in person: pace "Jenny B". Yeah even seems speaking is now "optional". I guess the idea from Trappist monks is moving into "ASL cultural circles". Yeah-silence is golden!
On some further thought re fingerspelling: a necessary adjunct to the "defect in ASL" not having a specific sign for EVERY word in English. Is this not true? Eliminating fingerspelling would seem to "cause a communication-linguistic problem" in using ASL. I am not unduly concerned about whether typing a short line. is a "massive inconvenience". About 2-3 seconds.

Implanted Advanced Bionics-Harmony activated Aug/07
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You actually seem longing to me. JennyB has offered to meet with you, and Mrs. Bucket has offered to introduce you into the deaf community.

You could if you wanted to, and I am also sure you could pick up more ASL than fingerspelling if you try.
 
drphil said:
Meeting with"deaf" persons while I don't know ASL- none! That includes bowling as well! Fingerspelling - was part of the ASL introductory course taken a few years ago- Toronto high school system-Danforth/Northern Secondary. I have mentioned before- considering the fact I couldn't practice ASL with anyone I knew. Thus the futility of continuing beyond the 3 separate classes which the teachers agreed. That was way before going deaf.
I am not a "self-defined authority" in ASL/ fingerspelling/ BSL/ QSL et al. Which it appears that "some" of this group seem to follow. I don't get excited if anyone here uses ASL/ fingerspelling- be my guest! Obvious reason: none of us will actual meet in person: pace "Jenny B". Yeah even seems speaking is now "optional". I guess the idea from Trappist monks is moving into "ASL cultural circles". Yeah-silence is golden!
On some further thought re fingerspelling: a necessary adjunct to the "defect in ASL" not having a specific sign for EVERY word in English. Is this not true? Eliminating fingerspelling would seem to "cause a communication-linguistic problem" in using ASL. I am not unduly concerned about whether typing a short line. is a "massive inconvenience". About 2-3 seconds.

Implanted Advanced Bionics-Harmony activated Aug/07
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Well... To be honest... "None of us will actually meet in person"... Several of us have already met eachother. I've met people from AllDeaf from California to New York. Will always continue to meet.

Eliminating fingerspelling shouldnt be a problem in ASL. ASL is NOT English based, that is where the misnomers come in.

The trend everyone is pointing towards here: You need to get out more. If you accept you are part of the deaf community... You will have less problems as is right now.

Good sign: We KNOW you don't know jackshit related to ASL and still we are trying to take our time to work with you.

That's a pretty damn good gesture if you ask me. Where do you find that in the hearing world?
 
As for the "hearng" world- I was born into it. Funny never considered the "so- called bifurcation" into whether one" hears" or "not" as being only the only basis of society. Doesn't seem to be known in Sociology_ such as a category: Marxism.( except of course Harlan Lanes' book- Journey into a Deaf World)
I also agree that ASL originated in France where apparently all sign gestures started less than 200 years ago- as I understand. Don't know what China/South America etc did with "their deaf" before-either? Difficult to think backwards before Hearing Aid's Cochlear Implants as well as say glasses and what effect on the then population.with " medical problems". What relevance to today's person with the same "medical problems"? Off to Cochlear Implant exercise.

Implanted Advanced Bionics-Harmony activated Aug/-07
 
What was the point of that babble?

And BTW: Signing started way before 200 years ago. LONG time before that.
 
drphil said:
I am aware of some deaf groups here in Toronto-from Canadian Hearing Society- over the last 20 years. I read newspapers re: the huge uproar over Cochlear Implants. As duly noted before i have one-now- and don't feel I should disconnect it and remain in total/real silence. Just learn ASL! Yeah I was actually a student in ASL at Danforth Collegiate and Northern Secondary school a few years ago-Introductory ASL- and realize the futility of trying to learn ASL without practicing with anyone-except in class.Both teachers agreed with me. At that time i had a "profound loss-85 decibels-left ear with deafness in right ear.
From reading about-"deafness" written by Harlan Lane et al- don't accept his "theories re cultural deafness"-even for Hearing persons-just know ASL. Journey into the Deaf-World does seem to articulate his thoughts! Duly noted before Harlan Lane is a Hearing person not Deaf. Is this just another exercise in Ideology? Never dull to say the least.
Not sure how many of the 38,000 members here have opinions based on THEIR experiences-similar? Especially everyone with an Cochlear Implant!

Implant-Advanced Bionics-Harmony activated Aug/07
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Many CI users are a part of the Deaf community. What's the big deal?
 
shel90 said:
Many CI users are a part of the Deaf community. What's the big deal?
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I guess they ain't getting some love from hearing community as they expected to :aw:
 
Whether a person with an Cochlear Implant wants to "belong to the deaf community" up to whoever.
What "sign communication" started before the French devised them-- ancient Romans or Greeks? Now a lesson in history.
posts from hell- what is the point of your" babble"?

Implanted Advanced bionics-Harmony activated Aug/07
 
drphil said:
Whether a person with an Cochlear Implant wants to "belong to the deaf community" up to whoever.
What "sign communication" started before the French devised them-- ancient Romans or Greeks? Now a lesson in history.
posts from hell- what is the point of your" babble"?

Implanted Advanced bionics-Harmony activated Aug/07
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History of ASL
that link shows sign language was used before christ.

My point in this babble: If you don't know the deaf community, don't know ASL/BSL - you shouldn't be in this thread telling people what to do, especially telling us that fingerspelling is faster, or it should be utilized much more.

Spreading misinformation is the biggest problem in the deaf community. If you don't know what you're talking about here, you will be corrected. I'm correcting you.

There are members more than willing take their time to meet you, introduce you to the stuff you might not know about, and might learn from. It can be a very positive experience. You seem to shun them off and constantly refer to your CHS experience and your readings.

I do feel that you can benefit more by meeting more people.

Thats the point of my babble.
 
Oh well- reading the Gallaudet sheet- it doesn't say there were SIGNS as understood today- back thousands of years ago.. It does mention Socrates comment of then view of "deaf condition". A bit later-Old/New Testament- no mention that the "deaf" were using SIGN COMMUNICATION( Jewish/Hebrew/Greek?) then. Nor is there mention about say the Middles Ages. I understand that there was NO public education either. Apparently started about 200-300? years ago. Yeah NO even books then- handprinted parchments. I recall a discussion in VampireFreaks.Com was the Bible read by everyone even though books didn't exist-just goat skins/parchments-hand written? Plus the slight problem how much could people read without much schooling.
Of course,fingerspellng the alphabet is not exactly what is meant by ASL. Was that-ASL etc what the French devised? Not exactly clear-however relevant to today's discussion of ASL being a "culture"? Was it so described 200 years ago that way?
With the introduction of "public education' back whenever? and trying to "educate the deaf' to speak rather than use ASL-only. Thus that ongoing discussion to this day,Appliciable around the world?

Implanted-Advanced Bionics-Harmony activated Aug/07
 
You know that... 200 years ago was the year 1810?

Books were made on sign language in 1600's..

For there to be books on sign languge... it had to be used prior to that. There are evidence it was used in 1300's.

There even is proof of deaf people meeting up from villages to chat with each other in 1300's. This is something we still do 700 years later.
 
Okay their books around 1300/1600 were "imprinted?" with "ancient signs" NOT ASL passed in villages by persons apparently who didn't go "public schools"- which were non-existent. Odd why ASL? didn't pick up the idea a "sign" for every word in whatever language if in actuality used around the known world. A repeat discussion from Vampire Freaks.Com. Even more shocking: Computers didn't exist back then either! Not sure how long humans have been on this earth- millions of years? Is ASL conterminous with human speech back to the beginning of time? Interesting study in history now!

Implanted, Advanced Bionics-Harmony activated Aug/07
 
I'd venture to assume that back then with all the diversity we had in cultures, gesturing were more common than speaking a language..

Public schools didnt really start till late either, so that point is invalid. However, what are you trying to get at with this?

I suggest you stop trying to discount sign language. My reason is because you obviously do not know anything about it.
 
Nor about printed books. Check about the Gutenberg bible and how old. That is not hand printed or scribed. It was the first major book to be printed with moveable type.

It was really big in the 1450's. So books are a lot older than you thought too!
 
More history. As pointed in V F-considering that only a few people actually went to "school" back hundreds/thousands of years- interesting to figure out " non schoolers" could read? To bring this thought into this discussion-"which sign language" was "written"? How many copies of "introduction to sign language" around these days? What about the time frame BEFORE 1450? Perhaps "word of mouth" might be inappropriate terminology for "transmission of sign language" to the "deaf". Travel appeared to be a real challenge"!
Seems we "deaf" have a better chance in our current world- yeah even Cochlear Implants/Hearing Aids might be considered.

Implanted-Advanced Bionics-Harmony activated Aug/07
 
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Wow drphil you dont think too highly of yourself or your own community. Cut yourself some slack and don't be so hard on yourself and your "hearing loss". It's unfortunate you allowed yourself to be brainwashed by the societal expectations of the Deaf community and deafness itself per se.
 
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